Killington Snowmaking Air Compressor Capacity.

[Highway Star]

Thought this was somewhat interesting:

Source:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/air/Permitti ... ington.pdf

Page 12:

- Operational Limitations -
(8) The annual fuel consumption in the stationary diesel engine units identified in Appendix A to this Permit, including those engines installed as replacements for such engines as well as any new installation of an engine installed as part of the increased capacity approved in this Permit, shall not exceed a combined 1,070,000 gallons per calendar year, based upon any rolling twelve (12) consecutive calendar month period.

Page 2-3:

Unit
Make and model
BHP1
CFM2
Date Installed

Bear #1
Caterpillar 3508
775
3,000
1984

Bear #2
Caterpillar 3508
775
3,000
1985

Bear #3
Caterpillar 3508
775
3,000
1984

Bear #11
Caterpillar 3516 (equipped with SCR in fall 2002)
1,485
6,000
1993

Rentals #1-10
Ten (10) Cummins QSX15 Tier II or equivalent
(these units replaced Bear units #4-10 and 12)
560
1,600
Rentals
Fall 2002

Bear New Unit #1
Cummins QSX15 Tier II or equivalent
(this engine is part of proposed new capacity)
560
1,600
Proposed

Bear New Unit #2
Cummins QSX15 Tier II or equivalent
(this engine is part of proposed new capacity)
560
1,600
Proposed

Snow Shed #1
Caterpillar 3508
775
3,000
1985

Snow Shed #2
Cummins VTA-28-P
650
2,700
1988

Snow Shed #3
Caterpillar 3508 (replaced 650 hp unit Fall 2003)
775
3,000
1985

Snow Shed #4
Cummins VTA-28-P
650
2,700
1988

Snow Shed #5
Cummins VTA-28-P
650
2,700
1988

Snow Shed #6
Cummins VTA-28-P
650
2,700
1990

Snow Shed #7
Cummins VTA-28-P
650
2,700
1988

Snow Shed #8
Cummins VTA-28-P
650
2,700
1988

Snow Shed #9
Caterpillar 3508 (replaced 650 hp unit Fall 2003)
775
3,000
1985

Snow Shed #10
Caterpillar 3508 (replaced 650 hp unit Fall 2003)
775
3,000
1985

Tube Park #1
Cummins QSX15 Tier II or equivalent
(this engine is part of proposed new capacity)
560
1,600
Rental
Fall 2003

Tube Park #2
Cummins QSX15 Tier II or equivalent
(this engine is part of proposed new capacity)
560
1,600
Rental
Fall 2003

Enjoy!

[RENO]

You definitely have too much free time on your hands...

[skidogg]

they could double their capacity by hooking skippy into the system

[rogman]

Well, I thought it was interesting. It is easy to forget all the crap a business has to go though now to do anything. In this case, this is just a permit to pollute the air to make snow. POWDR had to re-up the permit, and in doing so, looks like they wanted to bump the max capacity. Got to be a good thing. Overall, I'm under the impression that early season, when the temps are warm, they are air limited, and not until it gets colder are they water limited.

[icedtea]

they could double their capacity by hooking skippy into the system

i thought the system only used cold air...

[skidogg]

they have to cool it any time you compress air it heats up

[rogman]

pV=nRT

[flatnhard]

Have way to much air. Don't know what they use it all for. New snow guns out today use about 70 - 80 cfm per gun max. The old K guns were air hogs. 100 - 120 cfm. Technology in snowmaking has taken giant steps to produce guns that use less air. I've even heard of a gun called the water stick that uses no air. Made for very low humidity areas. Out west probably. Killington has the biggest water supply and barely use it.

[Geoff]

Have way to much air. Don't know what they use it all for. New snow guns out today use about 70 - 80 cfm per gun max. The old K guns were air hogs. 100 - 120 cfm. Technology in snowmaking has taken giant steps to produce guns that use less air. I've even heard of a gun called the water stick that uses no air. Made for very low humidity areas. Out west probably. Killington has the biggest water supply and barely use it.

I thought that in marginal conditions (humid and in the 30's, you couldn't use the low E guns and that you had to dramatically up the air in the mix to get enough evaporative cooling.

also...

Wouldn't Killington want to be able to run as many simultaneous guns as possible? If they can pump enough water up the hill, they can use all the air.

[flatnhard]

Have way to much air. Don't know what they use it all for. New snow guns out today use about 70 - 80 cfm per gun max. The old K guns were air hogs. 100 - 120 cfm. Technology in snowmaking has taken giant steps to produce guns that use less air. I've even heard of a gun called the water stick that uses no air. Made for very low humidity areas. Out west probably. Killington has the biggest water supply and barely use it.

I thought that in marginal conditions (humid and in the 30's, you couldn't use the low E guns and that you had to dramatically up the air in the mix to get enough evaporative cooling.

also...

Wouldn't Killington want to be able to run as many simultaneous guns as possible? If they can pump enough water up the hill, they can use all the air.

Making snow today at 30 degrees is another waste of money and time. That's one of the major problems. Trying to make snow at those temps. Any gun at 30 degrees is a waste of air. Times have changed when it comes to making snow. It's not my money being blown away when trying to make snow at very marginal temps. Just not cost effective anymore for what is produces.

[Geoff]

Making snow today at 30 degrees is another waste of money and time. That's one of the major problems. Trying to make snow at those temps. Any gun at 30 degrees is a waste of air. Times have changed when it comes to making snow. It's not my money being blown away when trying to make snow at very marginal temps. Just not cost effective anymore for what is produces.

Times have not changed at all when it comes to making snow. You can't change the laws of physics. Preston Smith made snow in October because it made his business more profitable. Times have changed when it comes to understanding the business and what attracted a million skier visits to Killington. The Killington management over the last decade has killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. (I'd also blame the state for Vermont Act 68 and the other high business costs that caused investment in Access Road businesses and housing to wane.) The proof is in the data. Pick whatever you want. Traffic counter on the Access Road. Gross meals receipts. Gross lodging receipts. Everything has a decade of downward spiral. It ain't working. A 7 month season drew a huge amount of business to Killington. Do that.

[Highway Star]

Have way to much air. Don't know what they use it all for. New snow guns out today use about 70 - 80 cfm per gun max. The old K guns were air hogs. 100 - 120 cfm. Technology in snowmaking has taken giant steps to produce guns that use less air. I've even heard of a gun called the water stick that uses no air. Made for very low humidity areas. Out west probably. Killington has the biggest water supply and barely use it.

Hahah. Right. Killington makes snow in 28-30F wet bulb temps, with K3000 guns, and uses TONS of air. Even though they use the tower guns and ranger low-e's more these days, they are still using the k-3000 quite often.

[jbkmart]

Have you noticed that the rentals are gone after January, now that POWDR has taken over? We've been lucky that we've had snow in Feb both years.
Also, aren't some of the compressors on Snow Shed rentals? Most of those disappear in Feb too.

[Highway Star]

Have you noticed that the rentals are gone after January, now that POWDR has taken over? We've been lucky that we've had snow in Feb both years.
Also, aren't some of the compressors on Snow Shed rentals? Most of those disappear in Feb too.

Yes.....but that doesn't matter. They OWN tons of compressor capacity, more than enough to make snow Feb/Mar if they wanted to.....

[rogman]

Have way to much air. Don't know what they use it all for. New snow guns out today use about 70 - 80 cfm per gun max. The old K guns were air hogs. 100 - 120 cfm. Technology in snowmaking has taken giant steps to produce guns that use less air. I've even heard of a gun called the water stick that uses no air. Made for very low humidity areas. Out west probably. Killington has the biggest water supply and barely use it.

They aren't making snow next to the compressor, and it's got to be a pretty lossy system. Regarding water, I'd hardly say they "barely use it". Depending on conditions, they do get maxed out on water or air. What were they running last December, about 260 guns? I believe SR maxes out at a around 220.