Killington Area Condos

[skibikeclimbguy]

I'm thinking about picking up a condo. Although I know the hill really well, I don't really know the different complexes. From what I see on the real estate listings, everything in the area seems to be pretty run down with still high prices and even higher fees. What are the nicer complexes with decent amenities? My budget is pretty thin, maybe $200 max. Actually, I don't really need the amenities, just a clean well maintained complex with easy access to the hill. Thought?

[Sporte]

Gonna need more info. For your 200K max, how many bedrooms and baths do you want? Is a view important? Near town or is over at Bear OK? Do you like lofts or are 8 ft ceilings OK? How important is a pool, tennis courts, hot tub, etc.? Is ski in/out important? Is being on the free bus route important?

A lot of complexes are older and the unit’s condition depends a lot on how much the owners have updated.

[RENO]

My advice is to just call a local realtor and take a tour of a few that might have all/most of your requirements.

[biged]

I would second calling a realtor and taking a tour.
Sunrise is maintained very well by the staff. Very quiet, which is good in my opinion.

[PinnacleJim]

Prices are down anywhere from 20 to 40% from the peak of a couple of years ago. They seem to have stabilized and units are beginning to sell again. Main issue is getting a mortgage. I would guess that a purchase today will look like a smart move in another 5 or 10 years.

Condition is more an issue of owner maintenance and upgrading, rather than the age of the complex. Some units haven't been touched since they were built and others have been extensively redone. Keep in mind very few new developments have been built in the last 15 years and most are in the larger more expensive category (like Topridge). In the $200K range you can find a nice 2 or 3 bedroom unit. Expect HOA fees of $300 to $600 per month. You need to decide if you want to be close to mountain and on the shuttle bus routes, or willing to be farther from the mountain and willing to drive each day. If you are planning to rent to help cover some expenses, the closer to the mountain the better.

[Mister Moose]

... What are the nicer complexes with decent amenities? My budget is pretty thin, maybe $200 max. Actually, I don't really need the amenities, just a clean well maintained complex with easy access to the hill. Thought?

'Easy access to the hill' on a season long basis puts you on the shuttle route. Mtn Green, Pinnacle, Trail Creek, Edgemont, Fall Line, High Ridge, Wiffletree. The Killington Grand is interval ownership of 1/4 shares, which is closest, cheaper to purchase, but more expensive per weekend. If you like the trade off of remote living and ski in/out from ~Jan 1 - April 1, Sunrise is an option.

'Decent amenities', like Mtn Green, (and the Woods) also have monthly fees as big as your mortgage. There is no single simple answer. Like others have said, you need to focus in on what you want, and are willing to pay for, and then go over all the choices with a knowledgeable realtor. Under 200k 2 bedroom will give you tons of choices.

Coincidently, there is an article in today's Mountain Times on the current market.

Buyers’ market continues uptick in Killington real estate
By Karen D. Lorentz

"The supply of condominiums still exceeds demand by a wide margin, but the gap is narrowing. If this trend continues, it should eventually result in less pressure to reduce prices below the last comparable sale. However, it is likely to take at least another year of solid sales, to see this affect," Crawford said.

He added, "The inventory of homes represents more than a three-year supply. With the average listing price at $578,000, the abundance of supply will most likely continue to force lower prices for Killington homes for at least a couple more years," he said.

http://mountaintimes.info/news/features ... al-estate/

http://blog.prestigekillington.com/
http://www.killingtonrealestateblog.com/

[skiadikt]

... What are the nicer complexes with decent amenities? My budget is pretty thin, maybe $200 max. Actually, I don't really need the amenities, just a clean well maintained complex with easy access to the hill. Thought?

'Easy access to the hill' on a season long basis puts you on the shuttle route. Mtn Green, Pinnacle, Trail Creek, Edgemont, Fall Line, High Ridge, Wiffletree. The Killington Grand is interval ownership of 1/4 shares, which is closest, cheaper to purchase, but more expensive per weekend. If you like the trade off of remote living and ski in/out from ~Jan 1 - April 1, Sunrise is an option.

'Decent amenities', like Mtn Green, (and the Woods) also have monthly fees as big as your mortgage. There is no single simple answer. Like others have said, you need to focus in on what you want, and are willing to pay for, and then go over all the choices with a knowledgeable realtor. Under 200k 2 bedroom will give you tons of choices.

Coincidently, there is an article in today's Mountain Times on the current market.

Buyers’ market continues uptick in Killington real estate
By Karen D. Lorentz

"The supply of condominiums still exceeds demand by a wide margin, but the gap is narrowing. If this trend continues, it should eventually result in less pressure to reduce prices below the last comparable sale. However, it is likely to take at least another year of solid sales, to see this affect," Crawford said.

He added, "The inventory of homes represents more than a three-year supply. With the average listing price at $578,000, the abundance of supply will most likely continue to force lower prices for Killington homes for at least a couple more years," he said.

average home price is $578,000? didn't realize it was that high.

[skibikeclimbguy]

Thanks for the feedback. Of course I'll work with a local realtor and have already spoken with one. I just like to get some local feedback, too. I live in NJ, though, so I'd like to keep an eye on the listings until I see a few that look good and I get a feel for what's available. I think the most important consideration is to be close to the hill, whether that's off the access road or near Bear. I don't think I want to be at Pico (thoughts?), on Route 4, or Pittsfield etc. After thinking about it, the most important consideration is distance to the mountain. I'm there to ski first and foremost. Having a pool, hot tub etc is not the primary consideration. Obviously a view of the mountain is ideal, but you definitely pay up for that. I rented a Northbrook condo recently and that seemed fine. No real amenities but the location was ok, off Telefon Trail. Searching this forum, I was surprised that the feedback for Mountain Green wasn't all bad. Is their financial situation a concern?

[Bubba]

As a long time Trail Creek owner, I see things like this:

Closest to the mountain and on the bus route - Trail Creek, Pinnacle, Mountain Green, Edgemont, Fall Line and Whiffletree, with Highridge being the furthest away. Breaking those down:

Trail Creek - best rental income to partially offset cost of ownership but most expensive to purchase. Many local realtors view Trail Creek as the best managed overall, with excellent financial reserves. You can walk to Snowshed and ski home or just ride the bus. Units are well maintained by the owners.

Pinnacle - lower cost to purchase, lower rental income. Killington Resort rentals put a lot of their bus groups in there so noise can be a factor. Be careful of how the proposed village will impact the development.

Mountain Green - also lower cost, lower rental. They have their own rental manager and cater to quite a bit of the bus groups as well. From my limited experience, the main building has a hotel feel, the others not so much. Again, keep tabs on how the village will impact.

Edgemont and Whiffletree - Unit quality varies from nicely remodeled to needs help big time. Both claim ski home trails but Whiffletree is on the wrong side of East Mountain Road to be truly ski home whereas Edgemot truly is.

Fall Line - rental income is limited but units are generally well kept with some nicely improved by their owners

Highridge - Furthest from the hill but with best amenities. Some units have great views of the mountain. Prices have fallen quite a bit there as their rental income dropped a ton this past season due to location, lack of snow and the fact that they changed rental agents. The Board is busy fighting with just about everyone right now and there are several court cases going on.

Moving over to the Bear side - your only choice on your budget is Sunrise. If ski in/ski out is important, this is the only place to be, however, ski in/out is only available from Christmas to very early April. The rest of the time, you're driving.

Off mountain, further down the access road, you have Glazebrook and The Woods. Both are nicely kept but I'm not sure about the economics of either, although The Woods has the nicer amenities for sure.

[shortski]

Don't rule out a stand alone single or duplex. Prices are now in the right range for most properties and condition. The draw back on being a weekender is do the maintenance yourself or hire someone. The "maintenance fees" on some of the condo's are 400-800 a month, you can hire a landscaping firm year round for snow removal and cutting the grass for a lot less. I can give you recommendations for trade people so you don't need to worry if thing break when you're not in town.

[Highway Star]

I'm thinking about picking up a condo. Although I know the hill really well, I don't really know the different complexes. From what I see on the real estate listings, everything in the area seems to be pretty run down with still high prices and even higher fees. What are the nicer complexes with decent amenities? My budget is pretty thin, maybe $200 max. Actually, I don't really need the amenities, just a clean well maintained complex with easy access to the hill. Thought?

Thing about the listings is that most of them have been offered for quite some time at well above market value, and thus are not moving. And there are plenty of other properties unlisted that people would love to be out of at the right price. You need to look at recent sales to really judge the price, moreso than in a normal area. I'm guessing that most of those that actually sell are on the market a short time, or were made a lowball offer.

I would look for a small single familly off the access road or west mountain, before getting into a condo.

[Geoff]

I would look for a small single familly off the access road or west mountain, before getting into a condo.

The problem is that most of the small houses date back to the 60's and 70's. The septic system is a ticking time bomb. The well has been there a long time. There was no such thing as code and building inspection when they were built. If the lot perked in the middle of a summer drought, you could do whatever you wanted. A lot of sellers will do all the cosmetic things to dress the house up for sale without addressing the rot, wiring, plumbing, heat, or septic issues and it's buyer beware. A simple home inspection likely won't turn up all the issues. If you have the time and the skills for the DIY projects, it can work. If you have to try to project manage repairs and upgrades from 3 or 4 hours away, that can end badly.

The other thing to consider is what you get for your condo fee. Cable TV. Firewood. Your driveway is plowed. Your walkway is shoveled. Your grass is mowed. Your driveway is re-graded in the summer. They inspect your place when you're not there. The association pays for insurance on the structure and liability insurance for anything outside your unit. You just need relatively cheap condo insurance. You likely bulk buy propane at a much lower rate than single family homeowners pay. You get your water system maintained. You're on town sewer so you don't have to deal with septic system issues. If your heat dies, you have common walls with other heated units so you likely won't have a plumbing disaster.

[Mister Moose]

The problem is that most of the small houses date back to the 60's and 70's. The septic system is a ticking time bomb. The well has been there a long time. There was no such thing as code and building inspection when they were built. If the lot perked in the middle of a summer drought, you could do whatever you wanted. A lot of sellers will do all the cosmetic things to dress the house up for sale without addressing the rot, wiring, plumbing, heat, or septic issues and it's buyer beware. A simple home inspection likely won't turn up all the issues. If you have the time and the skills for the DIY projects, it can work. If you have to try to project manage repairs and upgrades from 3 or 4 hours away, that can end badly.

This.

It's amazing what people are buying, and the prices being paid in some cases. I looked at one house, built in the late 60's, needed all kinds of work. Teeny rooms. Rot in the rafters. Buried oil tank (another ticking time bomb Geoff left out, and this one goes nuclear when the tank rusts and the oil leaks out) The furnace looked so old it must have been bought used back in the 60's. The roof was due and the chimney needed repointing badly. The highlight was the well. It was in the road. Had several metal stakes around it so the snowplow driver wouldn't hit it and shear the whole well head off. And I don't mean in the driveway. In the ROAD. A home inspector wouldn't likely find it. By the time you deduct to address all these issues, you're at a price the seller will never accept. The amazing thing is someone buys them, and the well in the road house sold last Spring for a price way too high for the issues the house had.

I think many of these 60's -70's era houses were never maintained to any degree. The owners just wanted a place to come up to for several weekends, and believed there's no need to do any maintenance. They were built without proper footing drains, and the usual chalet finished cinder block basements are at best damp and at worst have a stream running through in the Spring. Lots of sump pumps, electric heat and poor insulation. Condos are definitely a safer bet, but come with higher fees, denser living, rules you may not like and problem neighbors are right on top of you. But the well won't be in the road.

[RENO]

Thanks for the feedback. Of course I'll work with a local realtor and have already spoken with one. I just like to get some local feedback, too. I live in NJ, though, so I'd like to keep an eye on the listings until I see a few that look good and I get a feel for what's available. I think the most important consideration is to be close to the hill, whether that's off the access road or near Bear. I don't think I want to be at Pico (thoughts?), on Route 4, or Pittsfield etc. After thinking about it, the most important consideration is distance to the mountain. I'm there to ski first and foremost. Having a pool, hot tub etc is not the primary consideration. Obviously a view of the mountain is ideal, but you definitely pay up for that. I rented a Northbrook condo recently and that seemed fine. No real amenities but the location was ok, off Telefon Trail. Searching this forum, I was surprised that the feedback for Mountain Green wasn't all bad. Is their financial situation a concern?

I live in NJ also and own at Edgemont. Association fee is reasonable because we don't have a pool, gym, etc... Don't really care about those things as we like to enjoy the outdoors. We definitely rather own a condo because, like Geoff said, a lot of things are taken care of and insurance is cheap. We don't have to worry about scheduling repairs to the building or grounds, mowing the lawn, removing snow, etc... Any issues inside we have a great property manager who we can work with to coordinate things. We live too far away to worry about another home and property to maintain! Being on the shuttle route and the ski home trail is great! We use the condo year round. We don't rent our condo, but I know several owners that rent around me and they seem to do pretty well. Prices are definitely down a lot from a few years ago. Mortgages for 2nd homes are a massive PITA right now! We even went through a lot more of a hassle refinancing our condo even though we had no problems paying at the higher rate and we refinanced through the same bank again. Ridiculous! Took us twice as long than refinancing our home in NJ and both were submitted at the same time! We went through KVRE when we bought ours. Worked out great! Good luck... http://www.killingtonvalleyrealestate.com/

[Sporte]

As a long time Trail Creek owner, I see things like this:

Closest to the mountain and on the bus route - Trail Creek, Pinnacle, Mountain Green, Edgemont, Fall Line and Whiffletree, with Highridge being the furthest away. Breaking those down:

Trail Creek - best rental income to partially offset cost of ownership but most expensive to purchase. Many local realtors view Trail Creek as the best managed overall, with excellent financial reserves. You can walk to Snowshed and ski home or just ride the bus. Units are well maintained by the owners.

Pinnacle - lower cost to purchase, lower rental income. Killington Resort rentals put a lot of their bus groups in there so noise can be a factor. Be careful of how the proposed village will impact the development.

Mountain Green - also lower cost, lower rental. They have their own rental manager and cater to quite a bit of the bus groups as well. From my limited experience, the main building has a hotel feel, the others not so much. Again, keep tabs on how the village will impact.

Edgemont and Whiffletree - Unit quality varies from nicely remodeled to needs help big time. Both claim ski home trails but Whiffletree is on the wrong side of East Mountain Road to be truly ski home whereas Edgemot truly is.

Fall Line - rental income is limited but units are generally well kept with some nicely improved by their owners

Highridge - Furthest from the hill but with best amenities. Some units have great views of the mountain. Prices have fallen quite a bit there as their rental income dropped a ton this past season due to location, lack of snow and the fact that they changed rental agents. The Board is busy fighting with just about everyone right now and there are several court cases going on.

Moving over to the Bear side - your only choice on your budget is Sunrise. If ski in/ski out is important, this is the only place to be, however, ski in/out is only available from Christmas to very early April. The rest of the time, you're driving.

Off mountain, further down the access road, you have Glazebrook and The Woods. Both are nicely kept but I'm not sure about the economics of either, although The Woods has the nicer amenities for sure.

Not sure where you are getting your information on High Ridge but they are not in litigation with anyone. They did change rental managers. Historically, HR was exclusive to one rental management company – everyone renting their unit had to go through that manager whether they liked it or not. The owners have been complaining about that (and the past and present management companies) for years. So, in response to the last owner’s meeting, the Board is exploring moving to a model used by almost all condos on the mountain which is that unit owners can choose from several rental managers. The arguing you refer to is in response to this but I wouldn’t characterize it as the Board arguing with just about everyone. It will soon pass. Regarding their prices falling quite a bit, all condo prices have fallen quite a bit including TC. HR prices have not faired worse than many.