Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Change?"

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madhatter
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by madhatter »

http://www.investors.com/politics/edito ... to-fizzle/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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hillbangin
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by hillbangin »

madhatter wrote:
rogman wrote: Image
OMG did you just vouch for the credibility of the WaPo?
I think he did - BTW - The bunker is warm and cozy.

Washington Post or the Bezos Blog is total Fake News - and that has nothing to do with the side of the aisle you sit on.
madhatter
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by madhatter »

madhatter wrote:
Big Bob wrote:Rt 107 washed out areas were backfilled with angular blasted ledge that will be harder for water to move than granular soils which it replaced.
this is true, it also fell in the river a few times while they tried doing that...they also drove those huge trucks up and down the river to put that in and had excavators actually in the river removing gravel that was trucked elsewhere...I'm not against what they did, how they did it or why they did it...it was the most expeditious and practical way...the point was that restrictive national blanket standards might not be the best approach and that pre-obama standards would stay in place and add'l review at a more local level is always a good idea...projects in potential flood areas should have some guidelines and then also be subjected to more localized scrutiny...

and again congress can always act on it as well...
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madhatter
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by madhatter »

Governor Phil Scott — Governor of VermontLike Page
September 26 at 5:11pm ·
CARBON TAX STATEMENT FROM THE GOVERNOR: “Imposing a carbon tax on our workforce would be detrimental for Vermonters and our state’s economy. As I’ve said many times before, I will veto a carbon tax if it comes to my desk because we cannot make Vermont more affordable by making it less affordable. I created the Vermont Climate Action Commission to make recommendations to address climate change while setting Vermonters on a path to affordability and driving economic growth. Input from the public is important to those efforts. But, as I’ve said in the past, real solutions will strengthen the economy and not add to the crisis of affordability many families and businesses are facing."
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Sgt Eddy Brewers
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by Sgt Eddy Brewers »

Just backing up to an earlier discussion on humidity and cloud formation and the effect of these phenomena on climate. I think that some posters doubted that atmospheric aerosols are NECESSARY for formation of clouds under virtually any conditions. Because this actually seems to be true the role of aerosols becomes a CRITICAL factor in the earth's climate system. Factors which increase atmospheric aerosols will increase clouds and cool the climate. There was also some debate about the role of clouds. I represented that clouds have a NET cooling effect.

The excellent video linked here is from the head of a team of leading researchers assembled to study cloud formation behavior by studying the process at the CERN accelerator. His comments fully support all of the claims I made on this topic....and it's an excellent intro to a better view of climate science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M3up6T9Zeg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only four minutes so if you want to argue on this topic (and not be uninformed!) watch it.

....and just to add another great link on the same topic: an animated TED talk!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDo7saKaEys" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by rogman »

TED talk is at best simplistic and misleading. Seems to conflate the effect aerosols such as SO4 with clouds, H20. The former cools, the latter warms (science is pretty well converging on that conclusion). The clean air act resulted in additional warming for example. What is completely disregarded in the energy balance model used is feedback effects. Kate Marvel might be a better source on this.
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by Sgt Eddy Brewers »

rogman wrote:TED talk is at best simplistic and misleading. Seems to conflate the effect aerosols such as SO4 with clouds, H20. The former cools, the latter warms (science is pretty well converging on that conclusion). The clean air act resulted in additional warming for example. What is completely disregarded in the energy balance model used is feedback effects. Kate Marvel might be a better source on this.
…somehow Rogman knows a lot about cloud formation that Jasper Kirkby doesn’t.

Kirkby is the LEAD scientist in:
"The CLOUD experiment involves an interdisciplinary team of scientists from 17 institutes in nine countries, comprising atmospheric physicists and chemists, and cosmic-ray and particle physicists. The Proton Synchrotron provides an artificial source of “cosmic rays” that simulates natural conditions between ground level and the stratosphere. A beam of particles is passed through the cloud chamber and its effects on aerosol production or on liquid or ice clouds inside the chamber are recorded and analysed."

The video you are demeaning as “simplistic and misleading” was a product of this research team.

If you had some SPECIFIC criticism about the experiments or the claims being tested perhaps you could be less comical.

Your odd phrases such as “Seems to conflate the effect aerosols such as SO4 with clouds, H20” makes no sense at all when you understand the science underlying the CLOUD experiments. Ditto to your claim that the CLOUD team somehow “completely disregarded in the energy balance model used is feedback effects.” ????????

You often boldly type utter nonsense. Were you drunk??

Looked up Kate Marvel…classic NASA/GISS activist hired by either Hansen or Schmidt. In her CV she lists absolutely ZERO publications on cloud nucleation so…. you picking her for a counter claim is ….funny??

As for an example of the science produced by the CLOUD team ( in NATURE 2016):

Ion-induced nucleation of pure biogenic particles

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v5 ... lback=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Atmospheric aerosols and their effect on clouds are thought to be important for anthropogenic radiative forcing of the climate, yet remain poorly understood1. Globally, around half of cloud condensation nuclei originate from nucleation of atmospheric vapours2. It is thought that sulfuric acid is essential to initiate most particle formation in the atmosphere3, 4, and that ions have a relatively minor role5. Some laboratory studies, however, have reported organic particle formation without the intentional addition of sulfuric acid, although contamination could not be excluded6, 7. Here we present evidence for the formation of aerosol particles from highly oxidized biogenic vapours in the absence of sulfuric acid in a large chamber under atmospheric conditions. The highly oxygenated molecules (HOMs) are produced by ozonolysis of α-pinene. We find that ions from Galactic cosmic rays increase the nucleation rate by one to two orders of magnitude compared with neutral nucleation. Our experimental findings are supported by quantum chemical calculations of the cluster binding energies of representative HOMs. Ion-induced nucleation of pure organic particles constitutes a potentially widespread source of aerosol particles in terrestrial environments with low sulfuric acid pollution.

So....What are you claiming they are neglecting to consider when they investigate the role of cloud formation in the earth climate system??? You could be a paid advisor if you are aware of some details they are neglecting!

I think this is a fascinating (and unresolved) part of the climate mystery... and it would be truly THRILLING to find I know someone (you!) that could add the missing pieces that the CERN CLIMATE team has somehow ignored. You will be famous...will you at least admit you know me when you become famous??

Again if you contest their claims (which means you are doing science...) you have to be SPECIFIC and PRECISE in your complaints and counterclaims. Then you are participating in the scientific enterprise. If you are NOT specific and precise you are merely babbling.
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by freeski »

Fortification Under the Consent of the King, Al Gore. Drain the pseudo science NOAA, NASSA Swamp.

The swamp is super cereal bad... :banana:

edit: Leave the sharks alone. They never bother anyone.
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madhatter
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by madhatter »

global wind today....
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hillbangin
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by hillbangin »

Bumped into this on NOAA - one of my favorite snowstorms ever.

THE 14-15 MARCH 2017 “Pi Day” SNOWSTORM ACROSS VERMONT & NORTHERN NEW YORK
Peter C. Banacos and Robert Deal
NOAA/National Weather Service/WFO Burlington, VT

http://www.weather.gov/media/btv/events ... Review.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by f.a.s.t. »

If the global warming crowd is so concerned about saving the Earth, why don't they clean up the Oceans? They are full of trash and pollution from about every country but the U.S.A. and European countries. Why don't you spend your time and money solving a real problem, instead of trying to punish the U.S.A. for something that doesn't exist? Well, we all know why they won't..............there's no money to be made.
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by Dr. NO »

f.a.s.t. wrote:If the global warming crowd is so concerned about saving the Earth, why don't they clean up the Oceans? They are full of trash and pollution from about every country but the U.S.A. and European countries. Why don't you spend your time and money solving a real problem, instead of trying to punish the U.S.A. for something that doesn't exist? Well, we all know why they won't..............there's no money to be made.
FALSE ! The barges from NYC and NJ and the entire East Coast would take trash out to sea and attempt to sink it. Not everything sank and became part of this trash nightmare. I THINK they finally put an end to this practice but it may still continue. Better to dump in the deep sea than a land fill, right?
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by Nikoli »

This is from a river in South America. Lack of education and infrastructure are the root cause
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f.a.s.t.
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by f.a.s.t. »

Nikoli wrote:This is from a river in South America. Lack of education and infrastructure are the root cause
If you're referring to the photo, it's not in South America. As far as I know, it was somewhere in Asia-Pacific area. Nevertheless, it's happening in South America too. There are actually islands of garbage being formed in the Pacific from all the pollution from China, India and other 3rd world hell holes. To make matters worse, thousands of tons of radioactive material and garbage from the tsunami nuclear accident in Japan were swept into the Pacific once the flood waters receded and have come to rest on the islands of garbage. Some of the garbage that doesn't get caught up in the islands of garbage have floated all the way to the U.S. west coast.

Yet, not a word from the "save the planet global warming crowd".
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Re: Science Rant, Not politics: Can CO2 cause "Climate Chang

Post by Woodsrider »

f.a.s.t. wrote:
Nikoli wrote:This is from a river in South America. Lack of education and infrastructure are the root cause
If you're referring to the photo, it's not in South America. As far as I know, it was somewhere in Asia-Pacific area. Nevertheless, it's happening in South America too. There are actually islands of garbage being formed in the Pacific from all the pollution from China, India and other 3rd world hell holes. To make matters worse, thousands of tons of radioactive material and garbage from the tsunami nuclear accident in Japan were swept into the Pacific once the flood waters receded and have come to rest on the islands of garbage. Some of the garbage that doesn't get caught up in the islands of garbage have floated all the way to the U.S. west coast.

Yet, not a word from the "save the planet global warming crowd".
When you say the "save the planet global warming crowd" are you referring to environmentalist or liberals in general? Either way maybe you're just not listening. There are efforts under way to clean up the garbage and stem the flow of new garbage right now. This is probably easier to do then curbing global warming because it is harder for people to deny garbage exists. What would be interesting to see is if an international organization, say the UN, formed an Ocean Clean Up Summit and every 1st world country chipped in billions of dollars to pay for the clean up, would you start denying the existence of the garbage or just say it's not our job to clean it up and we already do enough? Do you donate money to one or more of the numerous oceanic preservation organizations now? Most are crowd funded non-profits.
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