Vail buys Stowe

[hillbangin]

This will have an impact on Real Estate at K when it comes to the Village ( If it ever gets built )

If you are a real skiing family and going to drop some dough on a Village Unit at K, Stowe, or Sugarbush - I would think you would have to give Stowe a little harder look now because of Vail's ownership.

I can't imagine it's going to move the dial much on Skier Days at Stowe.

[brownman]

The impact of this acquisition will reverb far and wide.
Epic pass moves the dial on those who previously opted for Sugarbush.
Some K peeps living North will also shift their allegiance.
The much hyped non-existent Village makes buying decisions easy.

[Woodsrider]

I have already heard from a few NY/NJ tourons that they will be buying an epic pass next year and to hell with Killington. My response to them was great idea. Keep driving.

[E O Eleven]

[spanky]

Maybe they will buy the K also..

And put in a South Ridge chair!

Maybe this will light a fire under POWDR's ass to actually spend some money at K. We'll see what happens this summer as far as the village and SP Land. I still think it would be funny if Vail purchased the land & village permits from SP and then POWDR and Vail had to actually work together to develop the village!

But that's not Vail's MO... they are going after the operations side of the business and not the real estate.

I think this is a blow to Sugarbush more than Killington. Many people ski the bush because of the high prices at Stowe.

[brownman]

This is true

They care little about real estate .. it's about the Epic pass investment .. last year that number was nearly $600M.
Another factor at Sugarbush is that the vibe there is not quite as uppity as Stowe or as (fill in blank) as Killington.

[irab82]

I have already heard from a few NY/NJ tourons that they will be buying an epic pass next year and to hell with Killington. My response to them was great idea. Keep driving.

was it ty?

In other words, you really don't care about improvements on the mountain, expanded snowmaking, opening first and closing last, the businesses that rely on the "tourons" and the people they employ, because without those dollars, you will have the mountain all to yourself during the shortest season in Vermont.

[rogman]

Maybe they will buy the K also..

And put in a South Ridge chair!

Maybe this will light a fire under POWDR's ass to actually spend some money at K. We'll see what happens this summer as far as the village and SP Land. I still think it would be funny if Vail purchased the land & village permits from SP and then POWDR and Vail had to actually work together to develop the village!

But that's not Vail's MO... they are going after the operations side of the business and not the real estate.

I think this is a blow to Sugarbush more than Killington. Many people ski the bush because of the high prices at Stowe.

Shakes up the market. Highest priced eastern season ticket suddenly became the lowest, with additional western benefits. That will have an impact. Unfortunately, short term it isn't going to "light a fire under POWDR's ass"; the uncertainty in the market will likely make them go conservative and if anything, spend less, and "see what happens". When ASC finally imploded and shook up the market, Killington did the most stupid thing possible: raised prices, and drove business away. I'm expecting a similar bonehead reaction by Cumming now. A cobra has moved into the neighborhood. The smart play is to wait and see what he does.../s

[brownman]

Cummings ain't no mongoose.

[Highway Star]

Maybe they will buy the K also..

And put in a South Ridge chair!

Maybe this will light a fire under POWDR's ass to actually spend some money at K. We'll see what happens this summer as far as the village and SP Land. I still think it would be funny if Vail purchased the land & village permits from SP and then POWDR and Vail had to actually work together to develop the village!

But that's not Vail's MO... they are going after the operations side of the business and not the real estate.

I think this is a blow to Sugarbush more than Killington. Many people ski the bush because of the high prices at Stowe.

Shakes up the market. Highest priced eastern season ticket suddenly became the lowest, with additional western benefits. That will have an impact. Unfortunately, short term it isn't going to "light a fire under POWDR's ass"; the uncertainty in the market will likely make them go conservative and if anything, spend less, and "see what happens". When ASC finally imploded and shook up the market, Killington did the most stupid thing possible: raised prices, and drove business away. I'm expecting a similar bonehead reaction by Cumming now. A cobra has moved into the neighborhood. The smart play is to wait and see what he does.../s

Not a chance. Stowe has an extremely finite lift capacity and has had to increase prices over the last 10 years to keep the hordes at bay. There is no way in hell they are going to offer a $600 blackout pass (epic local) or $800 full pass (epic pass). There is absolutely no chance.

What you will see from them Stowe specific pass products (with the current nosebleed pricing) that also offer western resort access with little or no extra cost. You will likely see the standard epic/epic local pass get 5 or 10 days to use at Stowe, this will capture the vacationing city market that is taking a trip or two out west, but now also might take a couple long weekend trips to Stowe.

[Mister Moose]

Yes the epic pass will come to Stowe and yes it will shake things up. There is still something different in play here.

The epic pass works because it either causes advance commitment and loyalty in fly-to western markets, or creates feeder markets in the Midwest. There is no overcrowding from cheap season pass prices like you will find happen in the East. The Denver drive-to market of 3 million pales next to NYC/NJ/BOS.

Will people buy an epic pass in September and book a week at Vail/Park City/Whistler in early March? You bet.
Will people buy an epic pass in September and book a week at Stowe in early March? Not so much.

So the NYC/NJ folks that are going to buy an Epic pass are still going to ski Stowe only on occasional weekends. Stowe will get busier weekends and see no increase in midweek activity.

What the Vail model is NOT going to attract is the impulsive weather driven weekend drive-to market in the Northeast. Vail has the highest day ticket prices ever imagined. Sugarbush, Jay, Killington, Stratton, Okemo, and MT Snow are all going to be priced well below that for mid season weekend purchasers. Vail is not going to attract more eastern skiers that want to go west for a week. They already have those folks. So the Stowe season pass appeal is going to be for locals, and the few people that want to give something new a try. Are you going to go all in and buy a condo at Stowe just because the pass is cheap and then weather the parking fees and high amenities costs?

It's going to be interesting, but I see Win keeping his "Sweeter up Here" tagline and holding his season pass prices, and competing hard on post November vacation buying folks with cheaper lift tickets, free parking and moderate food prices.

Let me put it this way. Lots of folks like Vail's model for a week or two. Who among us will put up with it for an entire season? The epic pass savings has meaning for a week. Over a whole season prices and factors other than the season pass come into play.

[RENO]

Stowe's early purchase season pass for adults was $1860
We'll see if Vail sticks to all their resorts being able to get the same epic pass pricing.

https://www.stowe.com/ski-ride/season-pass/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Highway Star]

Yes the epic pass will come to Stowe and yes it will shake things up. There is still something different in play here.

The epic pass works because it either causes advance commitment and loyalty in fly-to western markets, or creates feeder markets in the Midwest. There is no overcrowding from cheap season pass prices like you will find happen in the East. The Denver drive-to market of 3 million pales next to NYC/NJ/BOS.

Will people buy an epic pass in September and book a week at Vail/Park City/Whistler in early March? You bet.
Will people buy an epic pass in September and book a week at Stowe in early March? Not so much.

So the NYC/NJ folks that are going to buy an Epic pass are still going to ski Stowe only on occasional weekends. Stowe will get busier weekends and see no increase in midweek activity.

What the Vail model is NOT going to attract is the impulsive weather driven weekend drive-to market in the Northeast. Vail has the highest day ticket prices ever imagined. Sugarbush, Jay, Killington, Stratton, Okemo, and MT Snow are all going to be priced well below that for mid season weekend purchasers. Vail is not going to attract more eastern skiers that want to go west for a week. They already have those folks. So the Stowe season pass appeal is going to be for locals, and the few people that want to give something new a try. Are you going to go all in and buy a condo at Stowe just because the pass is cheap and then weather the parking fees and high amenities costs?

It's going to be interesting, but I see Win keeping his "Sweeter up Here" tagline and holding his season pass prices, and competing hard on post November vacation buying folks with cheaper lift tickets, free parking and moderate food prices.

Let me put it this way. Lots of folks like Vail's model for a week or two. Who among us will put up with it for an entire season? The epic pass savings has meaning for a week. Over a whole season prices and factors other than the season pass come into play.

You will not be getting unrestricted Stowe access on a $800 Epic pass. Period.

[rad1]

Ironically I just ran into Selbo's wife. Based on a conversation she was having with someone else it was clear she was absolutely in the dark on this news. In fact she turned to me and asked if it was Sugarbush or Stowe that Vail bought. I told her Stowe and she seemed surprised. Didnt have the nerve to ask her what Steve thought of the whole thing.

[Big Bob]

My guess is they will keep the walk up ticket prices the same or raise them slightly. They will need to get a feel for the eastern market. I do hope the season pass price does drop from its lofty point under AIG. I would think they are just buying access to more deep pocket customers who probably have already been out west multiple times and locking them into skiing one of their resorts since they already have a pass. Food and beverage prices will probably rise.