Vail buys Stowe

[MrsG]

Interesting letter from Win Smith at Sugarbush!!!

"Dear Peggy,
As you have undoubtedly heard, Vail has announced the purchase of the Stowe Mountain Ski operation, while leaving ownership of the Stowe Mountain Lodge, Stowe Mountain Club, Golf Club and real estate development assets with AIG. We have long anticipated that Vail would come East and considered Stowe one of the most likely targets.

We have long respected Stowe as a very well-capitalized and well-run resort, and we have admired the success of Vail under its recent ownership. Vail will clearly bring a number of changes to Stowe, not least of which is their EPIC pass. This pass has changed the landscape in the West and certainly will create some challenges, but also some opportunities, here in the East.

The fact that Vail chose Stowe as its first Eastern acquisition is a great testimony to the skiing and riding here in Northern Vermont, and recognizes that their terrain is commensurate with mountains like Vail and Park City out West. Whether Stowe or the Mad River Valley has better terrain depends on who you talk to - I know where my vote is cast. Personally, I like to think that our terrain is the Eastern equivalent of mountains like Alta, Jackson Hole, Aspen Highlands, Telluride and Squaw, where I have skied in recent years.

Thanks to your support these past fifteen years, I believe that we are extremely well-positioned for the future. Good competition is always welcomed, and Vail will bring that to Vermont. The one thing that they cannot bring to Stowe, however, is the special nature of the Mad River Valley - the nearly 4,000 acres of terrific skiing we have at Sugarbush, and the unique environment of our neighbor, Mad River Glen.

The three roads into the resort (German Flats Rd., Sugarbush Access Rd., and West Hill Rd.) make getting here on a holiday fairly easy. Our new parking lot at Lincoln Peak with shuttle service on weekends and holidays handles the crowds well. And our new Valley House lift has really improved the wait time out of the base area. (Of course, there are hardly ever long lines at Mount Ellen.) With our 16 lifts able to handle 21,000 people per hour and our nearly 4,000 acres of skiable terrain, people are moved all over the mountain when we are 100% open. If the EPIC pass brings more skiers and riders to Stowe, as it likely will, I think everyone will appreciate even more the environment we have here at Sugarbush.

Last week, I wrote to you regarding Gadd Brook Slopeside, and I believe that they, too, will become even more attractive as one compares their value and convenience to other areas. If you or someone you know is in the process of looking for a home at Sugarbush, please let us know. We have just furnished our model unit, and are offering Open Houses every day during Presidents' Week from 1:00 - 4:00 PM. We can also schedule a tour at your convenience by appointment. For more information, please contact the team at Sugarbush Resort Real Estate at 800-806-1070 or chat@sugarbush.com, or stop by the office in The Farmhouse. Heidi and Kyle are available to answer any questions you might have about the new residences. You can also take a look at our Gadd Brook website for more information.

Finally, let me speak about our forecasted conditions. While this has been a year where the hornets have been spot-on, it is also the year of the roller coaster. After receiving over five feet of snow in February and unbelievably good conditions, Mother Nature is acting up again, and we are in for a few days of very warm temperatures and some r*in showers. The snow will be nice and soft. We will likely lose some natural terrain, but our snowmaking trails have excellent depth and should hold up well. Winter looks to be returning Saturday night with some very firm skiing on Sunday, and we are likely to see some snow and then perhaps a lot more as we get into March. Going out on a limb, I am betting that we are still in for great spring skiing right through April, and we will continue to enjoy some terrific adventure and camaraderie here at Sugarbush.

Best Regards,
Win Smith"

[blakeslee_a]

I got the same email. Kind of laughable to compare sugarbush terriain to Jackson, IMO. Just an email trying to save face and encourage people to stay at sugarbush and fear long lift lines and traffic in Stowe, which will definitely happen, no question about that

[hillbangin]

Sugarbush - Similar to Snowbird and Jackson.........

I like it as much as Vail though.

[skiadikt]

he doesn't say equivalent, he says eastern equivalent ...

[spanky]

I got the same email and thought it was well done. We just spent 4 days there and even though it was crowded, everything about the resort handled the crowds well...

Lift lines weren't crazy.
Trails weren't "ski for your life".
Base lodges weren't hard to find a seat at.
Employees were friendly and seemed happy.
Parking/resort access was smooth.
Apres options were good and easily accessible.

My only complaint is it seemed like nobody knows how to "alternate-merge" on the lift lines. This isn't only a Sugarbush problem though and I wish more resorts would go to the "front row" model.

[brownman]

he doesn't say equivalent, he says eastern equivalent ...

Slide Brook Basin Express might also be considered the eastern equivalent of Whistler's Peak to Peak.
Don't those other resorts have an 'alliance' in place?

.. and yes, as Spanky outlines, Sugarbush runs a solid operation in every respect.
Win is what Mike could be if PWDR removed his shackles.

[Woodsrider]

I have already heard from a few NY/NJ tourons that they will be buying an epic pass next year and to hell with Killington. My response to them was great idea. Keep driving.

was it ty?

In other words, you really don't care about improvements on the mountain, expanded snowmaking, opening first and closing last, the businesses that rely on the "tourons" and the people they employ, because without those dollars, you will have the mountain all to yourself during the shortest season in Vermont.

Thanks for putting your words in my mounts. My turn. You obviously think Trump should step in and have the government fund Killington snow making expansion and mountain improvements in the face of stiff competition. Trumps next executive order must be to keep Killington's season long.
Touron.

[freeski]

I have already heard from a few NY/NJ tourons that they will be buying an epic pass next year and to hell with Killington. My response to them was great idea. Keep driving.

was it ty?

In other words, you really don't care about improvements on the mountain, expanded snowmaking, opening first and closing last, the businesses that rely on the "tourons" and the people they employ, because without those dollars, you will have the mountain all to yourself during the shortest season in Vermont.

Thanks for putting your words in my mounts. My turn. You obviously think Trump should step in and have the government fund Killington snow making expansion and mountain improvements in the face of stiff competition. Trumps next executive order must be to keep Killington's season long.
Touron.

Trump's next executive order is a fixed triple to replace South Ridge and Canada is going to pay for it.
MAKE KILLINGTON GREAT AGAIN!

[frankieski]

Trump's next executive order is a fixed triple to replace South Ridge and Canada is going to pay for it.
MAKE KILLINGTON GREAT AGAIN![/quote]


That is CLASSIC!

[Highway Star]

I have already heard from a few NY/NJ tourons that they will be buying an epic pass next year and to hell with Killington. My response to them was great idea. Keep driving.

NYC proper to Stowe is a SOLID 6+ hour, 340 mile drive from NYC. When I did my season as a Stowe passholder, I can't recall meeting anyone from the NYC area who was coming up for the weekend. Killington is 5 hours and 250 miles, which I think is nuts. Round trip Flights out of NYC to Burlington airport can be had for as little as $150 round trip.

You can make it from downtown Boston to the Stowe parking lot in 3:15 with light traffic. It is literally 30 minutes longer than driving to Kton. If Vail offers an $800 full pass to Stowe, they will get hundreds (thousands?) of new passholders from the greater Boston area. The crowding would be out of control.

[irab82]

I have already heard from a few NY/NJ tourons that they will be buying an epic pass next year and to hell with Killington. My response to them was great idea. Keep driving.

was it ty?

In other words, you really don't care about improvements on the mountain, expanded snowmaking, opening first and closing last, the businesses that rely on the "tourons" and the people they employ, because without those dollars, you will have the mountain all to yourself during the shortest season in Vermont.

Thanks for putting your words in my mounts. My turn. You obviously think Trump should step in and have the government fund Killington snow making expansion and mountain improvements in the face of stiff competition. Trumps next executive order must be to keep Killington's season long.
Touron.

Exactly the opposite. I'm a capitalist and a realist. Tourism is what drives any expansion and improvements at any resort. Without the "tourons" you have no mountain to ski on. You're a snob because you think you're above the tourists. Thankfully most of the people who run the businesses related to the Killington tourism industry are smarter than those of you that look down their noses at the tourons.

[brownman]

Would pay to see 3:15 from South Station to Stowe parking lot.
You could definitely make it to Stow Acres in that time.

Irrespective of that, Sunday River and Loon already captured the Boston market.
Moving that clientele is an objective of Les Otten. Good luck with all that.
The Ski 93 promotion hangover lingers on. Sugarbush gets some Hub outliers.
K, not so much. No room left in Bay 3. Pumpkin city license plates.

[rogman]

I'd be very surprised if Vail changed their pricing approach just for Stowe. I expect it to be added to the EPIC pass as is. Vail will sell a lot more passes in the east as a result, however that won't necessarily result in significant increase in crowding there. What it does is change how people think about day tickets versus a season pass. For most, an EPIC pass pays for itself within a few days of skiing. If you're thinking about about even a long weekend at Stowe, it suddenly makes sense to consider the pass. "Hey, I may decide to come up later in the season. Or make that trip out west". Those cheap passes result in a lot of upsells. I get an EPIC pass every year; I've used it 9 days so far. It's a no brainer, but I'd do even if I were only skiing 5 days at Vail resorts.

It's simple: ski resorts have very high fixed costs. That first customer costs a fortune, but the marginal cost for each additional customer is damn near 0. So for Vail, it really it comes down to how do they maximize (customers * ticket price), keeping in mind that there are other sources of customer revenue; eg food and beverage, rentals, etc. Their average effective ticket price (ETP) is around $55. By way of comparison, a hundred day club member at K, the ETP is down around $20. Vail's obviously done the math, and this is what works for them. Expecting them to suddenly change their business model for Stowe is missing the point.

Now Vail deals with crowding by adding lift capacity; quads becomes HSQ, HSQs become 6 packs. As a result, for the most part, their lifts don't get very old. They can keep putting in more capacity, keep the lines short, and continue growing their customer base. It works because they have tons of terrain. The slopes don't easily get crowded (there are exceptions, obviously). However, eastern skiing is different: the resorts have much smaller in area, and it is a lot harder to spread people out. Now at Stowe, they can't just increase uphill capacity to deal with crowding, so obviously it will present a challenge.

My guess is there was likely an attempt by both parties, AIG and Vail, to do a larger deal that included the real estate, but they couldn't agree on price. That would explain the relatively long time frame of this deal. Certainly Vail takeover of the mountain will have an impact on the local real estate values. AIG perhaps felt they would increase, and thus wanted to capitalize, and thus the stalement. Moving forward this could put AIG/Vail in an adversarial relationship. Like SP Land and POWDR, their interests are not perfectly aligned.

[Highway Star]

I'd be very surprised if Vail changed their pricing approach just for Stowe. I expect it to be added to the EPIC pass as is. Vail will sell a lot more passes in the east as a result, however that won't necessarily result in significant increase in crowding there. What it does is change how people think about day tickets versus a season pass. For most, an EPIC pass pays for itself within a few days of skiing. If you're thinking about about even a long weekend at Stowe, it suddenly makes sense to consider the pass. "Hey, I may decide to come up later in the season. Or make that trip out west". Those cheap passes result in a lot of upsells. I get an EPIC pass every year; I've used it 9 days so far. It's a no brainer, but I'd do even if I were only skiing 5 days at Vail resorts.

Right. And they're going to provide unlimited access to Whistler-Blackcomb too?

You and mouseman haven't spent much time at Stowe, and you don't know what you're talking about. Period.

[Woodsrider]

I have already heard from a few NY/NJ tourons that they will be buying an epic pass next year and to hell with Killington. My response to them was great idea. Keep driving.

was it ty?

In other words, you really don't care about improvements on the mountain, expanded snowmaking, opening first and closing last, the businesses that rely on the "tourons" and the people they employ, because without those dollars, you will have the mountain all to yourself during the shortest season in Vermont.

Thanks for putting your words in my mounts. My turn. You obviously think Trump should step in and have the government fund Killington snow making expansion and mountain improvements in the face of stiff competition. Trumps next executive order must be to keep Killington's season long.
Touron.

Exactly the opposite. I'm a capitalist and a realist. Tourism is what drives any expansion and improvements at any resort. Without the "tourons" you have no mountain to ski on. You're a snob because you think you're above the tourists. Thankfully most of the people who run the businesses related to the Killington tourism industry are smarter than those of you that look down their noses at the tourons.

Ok let's differentiate between tourist and tourons. Those I am referring to sleep on my couch, eat my food and buy lift tickets in the parking lot. No loss with them going to Stowe.