Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

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Mister Moose
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by Mister Moose »

Dr. NO wrote: Look at the dead trees along the Canyon Quad. No protection or support, trees fall down. South ridge when I first skied had pines no more than 2 or 3 feet tall because they over cut. No wind barrier, a couple ice storms and boom, South Ridge (and probably East Glade) lost its upper mountain forestry.
This has been the common explanation on the loss of trees, exposure, wind. While that's a factor, so is the lack of new growth to replace the old. The traffic mows them down. So far no effort has been made to protect chosen saplings, and that would be a lot of work and liability to erect fences to protect young trees.

Also, in high traffic areas I bet the bark takes a beating on larger trees where skis hit, graze and scrape at the snow surface. Enough girdling the tree with no bark and the tree weakens and eventually dies.
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MrsG
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by MrsG »

Mister Moose wrote:
Dr. NO wrote: Look at the dead trees along the Canyon Quad. No protection or support, trees fall down. South ridge when I first skied had pines no more than 2 or 3 feet tall because they over cut. No wind barrier, a couple ice storms and boom, South Ridge (and probably East Glade) lost its upper mountain forestry.
This has been the common explanation on the loss of trees, exposure, wind. While that's a factor, so is the lack of new growth to replace the old. The traffic mows them down. So far no effort has been made to protect chosen saplings, and that would be a lot of work and liability to erect fences to protect young trees.

Also, in high traffic areas I bet the bark takes a beating on larger trees where skis hit, graze and scrape at the snow surface. Enough girdling the tree with no bark and the tree weakens and eventually dies.
Not a tree skier, so this sounds sad :?
GSKI
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by GSKI »

South ridge when I first skied had pines no more than 2 or 3 feet tall because they over cut. No wind barrier, a couple ice storms and boom, South Ridge (and probably East Glade) lost its upper mountain forestry.
All the south ridge trees blew down like match sticks one year in a huge wind storm.
brownman
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by brownman »

That's a great shot. Likely Perry and Pres surveying by sikorsky :like
Hey .. Blowdowns happen everywhere .. Stowe has a bad one from a year ago.
Back in the day, Big Dipper wasn't the only woods in play 8)
The fusion zone markings like totes suck. :evil:
Snowboards are the bigger problem .. especially for saplings :sad:

Stay Kool.

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Sgt Eddy Brewers
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by Sgt Eddy Brewers »

Dr. NO wrote:
GSKI wrote:
I doubt there were environmental considerations in the 50's
How about high winds?
Excessive cutting of glades and opening tails supporting the trees caused a lot of damage. Look at the dead trees along the Canyon Quad. No protection or support, trees fall down. South ridge when I first skied had pines no more than 2 or 3 feet tall because they over cut. No wind barrier, a couple ice storms and boom, South Ridge (and probably East Glade) lost its upper mountain forestry.
Interesting discussion here. Not sure if we are talking about the same trees on South Ridge but... anyone else remember when Echo Woods was like a giant Christmas tree farm? Spacing was awesome for a few years. Like skiing The Jug except there were perfectly spaced pines to slalom around. Was paradise until the trees grew into each other and the lines between them disappeared.

Pipe Dream (upper part) really could use a Christmas tree farm (well spaced)...it is almost always a windblown nightmare. Almost always something close to an ice sheet because of the wind.
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by skifaster »

I clearly remember skiing echo woods back in the day. It was more luge skiing than real glade skiing but until the trees grew in, I loved going in there as a youngster.
I swore south ridge and echo woods had a fire at some point too, I could be wrong, but I swear I remember hearing that one summer.
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wannabeskibum
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by wannabeskibum »

skifaster wrote:I clearly remember skiing echo woods back in the day. It was more luge skiing than real glade skiing but until the trees grew in, I loved going in there as a youngster.
I swore south ridge and echo woods had a fire at some point too, I could be wrong, but I swear I remember hearing that one summer.
'
No fire but a bad wind and ice storm in early 80's that cleared out all the trees - what is there now has grown back over the past 35 years or so
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Sgt Eddy Brewers
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by Sgt Eddy Brewers »

wannabeskibum wrote:
skifaster wrote:I clearly remember skiing echo woods back in the day. It was more luge skiing than real glade skiing but until the trees grew in, I loved going in there as a youngster.
I swore south ridge and echo woods had a fire at some point too, I could be wrong, but I swear I remember hearing that one summer.
'
No fire but a bad wind and ice storm in early 80's that cleared out all the trees - what is there now has grown back over the past 35 years or so
Not pretending to be the authority on South Ridge but the Echo Woods pine trees I'm talking about are still there. My brother and I were still skiing the tight lines that evolved as the trees grew into each other up until about when the SRT was removed (spot to enter was at lift pole #23!)

I don't doubt there may have been either fires or blow-downs in the area...but that wasn't what destroyed Echo Woods. Maybe Upper Pipe Dream? Anyone know how that trail segment got so wide and barren....was that intentional??
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wannabeskibum
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by wannabeskibum »

Sgt Eddy Brewers wrote:
wannabeskibum wrote:
skifaster wrote:I clearly remember skiing echo woods back in the day. It was more luge skiing than real glade skiing but until the trees grew in, I loved going in there as a youngster.
I swore south ridge and echo woods had a fire at some point too, I could be wrong, but I swear I remember hearing that one summer.
'
No fire but a bad wind and ice storm in early 80's that cleared out all the trees - what is there now has grown back over the past 35 years or so
Not pretending to be the authority on South Ridge but the Echo Woods pine trees I'm talking about are still there. My brother and I were still skiing the tight lines that evolved as the trees grew into each other up until about when the SRT was removed (spot to enter was at lift pole #23!)

I don't doubt there may have been either fires or blow-downs in the area...but that wasn't what destroyed Echo Woods. Maybe Upper Pipe Dream? Anyone know how that trail segment got so wide and barren....was that intentional??
Upper Pipe Dream was always fairly wide - it was used for ski school and race clinics - the wind/ice storm did make it wider in addition to taking down the original echo woods glade

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/ski ... hridge.php
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Sgt Eddy Brewers
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by Sgt Eddy Brewers »

wannabeskibum wrote:
Sgt Eddy Brewers wrote:
wannabeskibum wrote:
skifaster wrote:I clearly remember skiing echo woods back in the day. It was more luge skiing than real glade skiing but until the trees grew in, I loved going in there as a youngster.
I swore south ridge and echo woods had a fire at some point too, I could be wrong, but I swear I remember hearing that one summer.
'
No fire but a bad wind and ice storm in early 80's that cleared out all the trees - what is there now has grown back over the past 35 years or so
Not pretending to be the authority on South Ridge but the Echo Woods pine trees I'm talking about are still there. My brother and I were still skiing the tight lines that evolved as the trees grew into each other up until about when the SRT was removed (spot to enter was at lift pole #23!)

I don't doubt there may have been either fires or blow-downs in the area...but that wasn't what destroyed Echo Woods. Maybe Upper Pipe Dream? Anyone know how that trail segment got so wide and barren....was that intentional??
Upper Pipe Dream was always fairly wide - it was used for ski school and race clinics - the wind/ice storm did make it wider in addition to taking down the original echo woods glade

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/ski ... hridge.php
Thanks...that is one of my favorite sites. Can see the 1978 map listing Echo Woods area as "gladed skiing."

Maybe the pines I'm talking about are a "second generation" tree population planted after destruction of earlier woods??

In any case the "Christmas tree" skiing I loved disappeared when the trees got too big and the spaces between them disappeared. The trees are still there. The skiing between them? Not so much. Haven't even tried for four or five years. Can still see some snow in there on Google Earth, but the last time in it was like a hobbit-sized version of Roundabout: too tight (and not steep.)
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4-mile
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by 4-mile »

Upper Pipe Dream wasn't always as wide as people think.

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Mister Moose
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by Mister Moose »

4-mile wrote:Upper Pipe Dream wasn't always as wide as people think.
If you think about it, just taking out the towers makes the trail appear much wider.
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wannabeskibum
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by wannabeskibum »

Mister Moose wrote:
4-mile wrote:Upper Pipe Dream wasn't always as wide as people think.
If you think about it, just taking out the towers makes the trail appear much wider.

Yeah but - I think the great ice storm/wind storm of 1980 or so - took out a lot of those trees, and I suspect that as they grew back, Killington kept Upper Pipe Dream on the wide side - I am just having a hard time remembering that far back!

That picture of the old gondola with the chair in the background is a great shot - and to think Bob Perry did everything with a film camera!
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Sgt Eddy Brewers
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by Sgt Eddy Brewers »

wannabeskibum wrote:
Mister Moose wrote:
4-mile wrote:Upper Pipe Dream wasn't always as wide as people think.
If you think about it, just taking out the towers makes the trail appear much wider.

Yeah but - I think the great ice storm/wind storm of 1980 or so - took out a lot of those trees, and I suspect that as they grew back, Killington kept Upper Pipe Dream on the wide side - I am just having a hard time remembering that far back!

That picture of the old gondola with the chair in the background is a great shot - and to think Bob Perry did everything with a film camera!
Yeah that picture says a lot. The trees shown there between The Jug and Pipe Dream (Echo Woods location) are MUCH taller than the ones I remember skiing so...If you're pretty sure about a blow-down for THOSE tree...it makes a pretty sensible narrative.

South Ridge started out looking like that picture, then there was a blow-down which took down the original Echo Woods glades. Killington then (I'm guessing) planted a new Echo Woods Glade of x-mas sized trees which had smaller footprint than the original (leaving Upper Pipe Dream wider). These trees still stand but you can't ski through them anymore.

Maybe?
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MrsG
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Re: Cool real old K pic pre almost everything

Post by MrsG »

The trees I remember referred to as 'Echo Woods' were only knee high and the kids skied through them. I also remember 'Upper Pipedream' being called 'Wanderer' .... used to be maintained much better than in past ten or so years ... you could ski there in the afternoon with newbies because it was sunny and warmer than the rest of the mountain! Maybe I made that up, or dreamt it :mrgreen:
Last edited by MrsG on Jun 15th, '17, 15:06, edited 1 time in total.
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