Irma

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Big Bob
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Irma

Post by Big Bob »

Still 10 days out and track is not set in stone yet, but pay attention to the news, especially for you Long Island folks, don't wait till the last minute to evacuate!!

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/31/us/hurric ... ch+Results" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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rogman
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Re: Irma

Post by rogman »

My rule of thumb is that well north of Puerto Rico, it will go out into the Atlantic; well south it will go into the Gulf. Down the middle, I worry. Later, if the track looks like it'll hit North Carolina's Outer Banks, I start prepping. Since Irma is already a major hurricane, and heading right for Puerto Rico, I agree, this one bears keeping a lazy eye on. The only good news is it has been blowing steady out of the NE for a while, cooling off the water some.
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Mister Moose
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Re: Irma

Post by Mister Moose »

Not looking good. 7 day run shows a turn northwards by 75°W, and frequent track after that is a glance off Hatteras and then landfall between NYC and Nantucket. It could also turn out to sea, but I think it's time to start paying very close attention.
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brownman
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Re: Irma

Post by brownman »

Que sera sera.
Milk and bread supplies are robust.
Gas prices sure have spiked.

:Toast
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SnoBrdr
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Re: Irma

Post by SnoBrdr »

brownman wrote:Que sera sera.
Milk and bread supplies are robust.
Gas prices sure have spiked.

:Toast
There's plenty of gas, just gouging.

When you see stations raising the price daily and they haven't got a tanker in a few days, you know they are gouging.
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Mister Moose
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Re: Irma

Post by Mister Moose »

SnoBrdr wrote:There's plenty of gas, just gouging.

When you see stations raising the price daily and they haven't got a tanker in a few days, you know they are gouging.
That's not how it works.


Pricing fuel to be able to pay for the cost of the replacement tanker is normal business practice. No handout is coming to the retailer to cover this increased expense. Similarly, when prices drop and your competitor gets a fresh load of cheap gas and lowers his price, and your tanks just got filled last night with pre price drop expensive gas, no one comes along and cuts you a check for the money you just lost.

Pricing has to be considered abusive to be gouging. Pricing to market (ie the incoming tanker 2 days off) is not gouging.
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SnoBrdr
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Re: Irma

Post by SnoBrdr »

Mister Moose wrote:
SnoBrdr wrote:There's plenty of gas, just gouging.

When you see stations raising the price daily and they haven't got a tanker in a few days, you know they are gouging.
That's not how it works.


Pricing fuel to be able to pay for the cost of the replacement tanker is normal business practice. No handout is coming to the retailer to cover this increased expense. Similarly, when prices drop and your competitor gets a fresh load of cheap gas and lowers his price, and your tanks just got filled last night with pre price drop expensive gas, no one comes along and cuts you a check for the money you just lost.

Pricing has to be considered abusive to be gouging. Pricing to market (ie the incoming tanker 2 days off) is not gouging.
if you already paid for the gas that is in the ground and you then raise the price well above what you were charging when you bought the product, that is gouging.
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Re: Irma

Post by Bubba »

SnoBrdr wrote:
Mister Moose wrote:
SnoBrdr wrote:There's plenty of gas, just gouging.

When you see stations raising the price daily and they haven't got a tanker in a few days, you know they are gouging.
That's not how it works.


Pricing fuel to be able to pay for the cost of the replacement tanker is normal business practice. No handout is coming to the retailer to cover this increased expense. Similarly, when prices drop and your competitor gets a fresh load of cheap gas and lowers his price, and your tanks just got filled last night with pre price drop expensive gas, no one comes along and cuts you a check for the money you just lost.

Pricing has to be considered abusive to be gouging. Pricing to market (ie the incoming tanker 2 days off) is not gouging.
if you already paid for the gas that is in the ground and you then raise the price well above what you were charging when you bought the product, that is gouging.
If you owned a gas station, generally making only a couple of cents per gallon margin, you might think differently. Another consideration, is your accounting system cash or accrual, and do you account for inventory using FIFO or LIFO?
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Mister Moose
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Re: Irma

Post by Mister Moose »

Bubba wrote:
If you owned a gas station, generally making only a couple of cents per gallon margin, you might think differently. Another consideration, is your accounting system cash or accrual, and do you account for inventory using FIFO or LIFO?
Doesn't matter. If your competition down the street is charging 10 cents less per gallon, you'd better lower your price or you won't sell much gas and you won't make your rent payment/payroll/etc. Gasoline is a commodity like milk. Almost no one drives all over town searching for a Shell station because their car only will drive on Shell. If it's 10 cents cheaper down the street, I'm going there. FIFO LIFO, cash or accrual, you have to meet the market (within the range of elasticity, which is small.). If they don't stop to buy gas, they also won't buy any lottery tickets, cigarettes, snacks or energy drinks.
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Mister Moose
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Re: Irma

Post by Mister Moose »

SnoBrdr wrote: if you already paid for the gas that is in the ground and you then raise the price well above what you were charging when you bought the product, that is gouging.
What's it called when the price drops 10 cents and you have 30,000 gallons in the ground that just lost $3,000 in value? Will the gas buying public feel bad about gouging you for the $3,000 loss and agree to pay you 10 cents more until you sell your inventory? If so, why not just keep charging 10 cents more?

Because you can't. People price compare. People don't care if you paid too much and bought just before a price drop. They will go down the street if it's cheaper.

It works both ways. You are wrong. Pricing to market is not gouging, either going up or going down.

Pricing significantly higher than market due to natural disaster or other short term factors that reduce competition and creates shortages and hardship is gouging. It has to be considered more than a price increase reflecting market forces on gas already in your tank. It has to be considered abusive.

Your competition who just got delivered the expensive fuel is not gouging when he raises his price. Neither are you if you still had some fuel in your tanks. You are meeting the market, and that is NOT abusive.

Does Killington issue rebates on years when the snowfall goes over 300 inches and they didn't have to blow the full snowmaking budget?

Did they charge more in lean winters?
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SnoBrdr
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Re: Irma

Post by SnoBrdr »

Mister Moose wrote:
SnoBrdr wrote: if you already paid for the gas that is in the ground and you then raise the price well above what you were charging when you bought the product, that is gouging.
What's it called when the price drops 10 cents and you have 30,000 gallons in the ground that just lost $3,000 in value? Will the gas buying public feel bad about gouging you for the $3,000 loss and agree to pay you 10 cents more until you sell your inventory? If so, why not just keep charging 10 cents more?

Because you can't. People price compare. People don't care if you paid too much and bought just before a price drop. They will go down the street if it's cheaper.

It works both ways. You are wrong. Pricing to market is not gouging, either going up or going down.

Pricing significantly higher than market due to natural disaster or other short term factors that reduce competition and creates shortages and hardship is gouging. It has to be considered more than a price increase reflecting market forces on gas already in your tank. It has to be considered abusive.

Your competition who just got delivered the expensive fuel is not gouging when he raises his price. Neither are you if you still had some fuel in your tanks. You are meeting the market, and that is NOT abusive.

Does Killington issue rebates on years when the snowfall goes over 300 inches and they didn't have to blow the full snowmaking budget?

Did they charge more in lean winters?
You don't have a loss for what's in the ground as you already paid for it at the lower price.

That's gouging.

Your argument that your competition isn't gouging when he raises his price cause he paid more make no sense.

Can your heating oil guy change you more after he's made your delivery and you paid?
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Mister Moose
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Re: Irma

Post by Mister Moose »

SnoBrdr wrote:
Mister Moose wrote: What's it called when the price drops 10 cents and you have 30,000 gallons in the ground that just lost $3,000 in value? Will the gas buying public feel bad about gouging you for the $3,000 loss and agree to pay you 10 cents more until you sell your inventory? If so, why not just keep charging 10 cents more?
You don't have a loss for what's in the ground as you already paid for it at the lower price.

That's gouging.
I give up.
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Big Bob
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Re: Irma

Post by Big Bob »

From what I have heard, at least in NH, the oil company owned stations can raise and lower prices based on the market. The independents have to wait till they get a fresh load to adjust the price. I got lucky and filled my bulk tank up a few weeks ago at $2.124
2 hours and 10-minute drive to K
2023/2024 Ski Days: 30 days for the season
Killington: 12/14, 1/4, 1/9, 1/11, 1/17, 1/23, 1/31, 2/5, 2/20, 2/26, 3/4, 3/20, 3/25
Loon: 11/29, 12/8, 12/21, 1/8, 1/19, 1/22,1/30, 2/7, 2/15, 3/1, 3/8, 3/22
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Re: Irma

Post by Bubba »

This whole discussion about what defines gouging is irrelevant. In commodity markets, the market sets your price and your costs tell you how much money you're going to make. Raising prices obscenely during a disaster may be immoral and illegal but it's the market's way of efficiently allocating goods.
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madhatter
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Re: Irma

Post by madhatter »

SnoBrdr wrote:
Mister Moose wrote:
SnoBrdr wrote: if you already paid for the gas that is in the ground and you then raise the price well above what you were charging when you bought the product, that is gouging.
What's it called when the price drops 10 cents and you have 30,000 gallons in the ground that just lost $3,000 in value? Will the gas buying public feel bad about gouging you for the $3,000 loss and agree to pay you 10 cents more until you sell your inventory? If so, why not just keep charging 10 cents more?

Because you can't. People price compare. People don't care if you paid too much and bought just before a price drop. They will go down the street if it's cheaper.

It works both ways. You are wrong. Pricing to market is not gouging, either going up or going down.

Pricing significantly higher than market due to natural disaster or other short term factors that reduce competition and creates shortages and hardship is gouging. It has to be considered more than a price increase reflecting market forces on gas already in your tank. It has to be considered abusive.

Your competition who just got delivered the expensive fuel is not gouging when he raises his price. Neither are you if you still had some fuel in your tanks. You are meeting the market, and that is NOT abusive.

Does Killington issue rebates on years when the snowfall goes over 300 inches and they didn't have to blow the full snowmaking budget?

Did they charge more in lean winters?
You don't have a loss for what's in the ground as you already paid for it at the lower price.

That's gouging.

Your argument that your competition isn't gouging when he raises his price cause he paid more make no sense.

Can your heating oil guy change you more after he's made your delivery and you paid?
weak and disconnected argument...of course he can't ask for more, but I could sell it for whatever I could get...in this case "I" am the equivalent of the gas station owner not the heating oil guy who is the equivalent of the distributor......
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