As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

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hillbangin
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As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by hillbangin »

Facts or Fake News??

http://www.steamboattoday.com/news/as-b ... -the-gaps/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


As baby boomers leave ski slopes, millennials are failing to fill in the gaps
Carolyn Webber/Park City Record
October 11, 2017

Scott Franz/File
Skiers and snowboarders take advantage of fresh snow at the Steamboat Ski Area.
PARK CITY — Ski resorts expect older, wealthier individuals who have the time and money to ski more. What is not expected is as that generation retires from skiing, fewer youth replace their spots on the chair lifts.

Jim Powell, vice president of marketing at the Park City Chamber/Bureau, said this is a trend that ski resorts are seeing more and more every year. Millennials simply do not ski or snowboard as much as the baby boomers.

“Skiing is not a growing sport,” he said. “We have a problem — the baby boomers are aging out. And they have been a big source of skier days.”

Powell said it takes about two millennials to replace every baby boomer who hangs up his or her skis. Young adults between the ages of 20 and 36 tend to ski less during the season and they do not spend as much money.

Part of the problem is that millennials, who are in their late 20s and early 30s, are in the stage of life that regularly drops skiing because of everything else they are doing, said Michael Berry, president of National Ski Areas Association based in Colorado.

“You’re possibly getting married, you’re possibly launching a career, or you’re possibly buying a home. Or maybe all three of those things,” he said. “That distracts you, except for the most serious participants, from the idea that you might have time and the financial ability to be able to spend a weekend or a couple of days or even a day skiing.”



The trend is predictable, because many come back seven or 10 years later — after they have a steady job and kids, and they want their kids to participate in the sport they love, Berry said. That differs from baby boomers, who, at that pivotal point in their life, were still skiing more.

The cohort of snowsports participants between the ages of 20 and 36 in Park City had continual growth from 1996 to 2009. As millennials aged to fill the cohort, numbers have remained fairly flat, according to data from RRC Associates.

Ski resorts like Deer Valley have seen the changes coming as well. Two seasons ago, their average skier age increased by five years and there were far more 55 to 60 year olds, said Coleen Reardon, branding manager for the resort. They adapted their marketing strategy to target a younger audience, and the resort’s average age dropped two years.

Some resorts, such as Vail Resort’s EPIC pass and the Mountain Collective, target millennials who enjoy variability with passes that allow one to try several ski areas, Powell said.
Berry and Powell both recognize that the cost of skiing has increased, especially in destination resorts.

The average adult weekend ticket price at resorts in the Rocky Mountain region has risen from $106.79 during the 2013-14 to $134.32 last season, according to a graph from NSAA. Data from RRC Associates shows that the average daily rate of lodging in Park City continues to rise, and young adults cannot keep up, they said.

Millennials are low on funds because of student debt and expensive housing and low on time because of “normal” 60-hour work weeks that the previous generation did not see to the same extent, Berry said.

In order to bring them back, resorts have to get creative.

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“Each individual area has (its) own strategy,” he said. “What kind of activities can you create that will draw (millennials) out in a way that will be beneficial and remind them what a wonderful sport and activity it really is?”

The Chamber/Bureau attracts millennials by showing off not only skiing and snowboarding, but unique adventures and nightlife in Park City on social media channels and online television and music ads, Powell said. The ads reach big cities such as Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas, Washington DC, New York, Miami, Atlanta, San Francisco and Boston, which tend to have high populations of young adults. The Chamber/Bureau also wants to showcase the diversity of things to do in Park City, since Powell has noticed that one of the reasons millennials ski less is that they often choose to participate in various activities.

“They are looking for different kinds of adventures,” he said. “The boomers were more, ‘Hey we’re on vacation. We ski every day on vacation. That’s what we do.”

Millennials might ski a few days, but also rent fat tire bike or go to the Homestead Crater for paddleboard yoga. By advertising that there is more to do than just ski in Park City, Powell hopes that more millennials will come.
Last edited by hillbangin on Oct 12th, '17, 11:15, edited 1 time in total.
Highway Star
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Re: As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by Highway Star »

Millennials were born in 1980 to 1995. The phenomenon of an age gap can be directly observed in the Killington ski house scene. There are fewer people in their early and mid 30's (say 31 to 37), primarily due to the economic collapse of 2008, secondarily due to POWDR's poor management (high prices, reduced services, poor press) inflicting depressed skier visits 2007 to 2011, and thirdly due to high student loan debt.

For example a 25 to 28 year old in 2008 might have normally been financially established enough to have a couple thousand dollars or so in disposable income to get into a Killington house with a pass, but perhaps lost their job or had low economic confidence due to the collapse, or went elsewhere. Or someone who would have liked to have joined a house in their 20's but had too much student debt, by the time they pay it off, their personal priorities have shifted and they never do it in their 30's.

The last couple years have seen a rebound in the late 20's crowd, but there is still a 30's gap that has not filled in.
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brownman
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Re: As baby boomers leave th ski slopes....

Post by brownman »

Fact.
US ski/board participation totals ~10M .. has hovered around that number for a decade or more.

Whereas .. US bicyclists are around 60M and continue showing strong growth. (double the auto sales number annually)
Some estimate more than half of the 60 is MTB.
Targeting that .. Beast hired Whistler.

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Mister Moose
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Re: As baby boomers leave th ski slopes....

Post by Mister Moose »

Walk up rate to ride the lift and bike down: $55
Walk up rate to ride the lift and ski down: $115

And we're surprised biking is more popular?

One thing that has changed dramatically in my lifetime is the change from "The price is the price" meaning the window rate is what every individual pays (Group sales over 20 ppl dealt with separately) to "Yield management". While yield management has extracted the maximum dollars, it does so at the cost of discouraging impulse buyers that can't stomach $115 but would pay $70. Is lower millennial participation an impact of yield management?
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Re: As baby boomers leave th ski slopes....

Post by da Pimp »

I would love to know how the summer beach house market has been doing in the last 10-15 years that has seen the ski house scene fade away. Same people, same demographics, same influences on their disposable income and free time.

So many factors killed the ski house scene. I think the biggest and most negative factors in the ski industry have been escalating pricing and the economic downturn after 2008. Careers lost, savings lost, short or long term unemployment, or even the fear of any of those happening to you. And all of those issues might have happened to a significant other, forcing you to pull back the leisure reigns. Once you change your life routine or get distracted into another easier or more affordable spot, its real hard to motivate yourself and go back where you were. Remember that all the competing leisure time activities (bikes, kayaks, cruise ships, Caribbean destinations, hiking) have been working hard to grab your leisure time and disposable income.

But - look around New England and take stock of the increases in skier days at the competition, especially at Okemo. Killington dropped off perhaps 200,000 to 250,000 visits a year since they were a true Beast, and the competition has been INCREASING since the economic downturn in 2008 started to mediate. Imagine if there were just 100,000 to 150,000 more visits to Killington per year. I bet the nightlife, party scene, rental housing markets would be vastly better than now. Imagine 200,000 more visits! All that increased cash flow into POWDR would come with only a smaller increase in operating costs (some more lefties, a bit more snowmaking, more goods & supplies purchased in order to resell). I do not think that there would have been two embarrassing lifts still trudging along on Snowdon with a lot more cash flow in the last 8-10 years.

To that large and definable loss of business I spread the blame on the economic downturn, pricing, and POWDR policies. The customers that started coming back to winter sports did not return to the ski resorts in the same ratio with which they left it. That's all on POWDR.

I think Killington is trying to entice the millennials back (or to start up) with cheap season passes in their age group, lots of social media, and focused marketing programs. The problem with that is the competition is also doing the same things. So how do you get millennials to come to Killington?

How about actually going out into the marketplace IN PERSON and stop relying on pressing a computer button to make you feel like you did your job. The few marketing people or interns that I ever met at Killington were not capable of enticing me to butter my bread, let alone come to Killington and have a great time. They need to hire a fleet of inexpensive aspiring marketers out of college with personality and passion for skiing/riding and actually visit the cities & towns where the customers live. Attend all the public functions, create your own events, be in the public face. That is where you can win over new customers. Not by competing with the rest of New England's social media blitz.

And the ski house scene, seasonal attendance, fun factors would improve every year. Someone said this previously - "Don't build it, and they will come". That's POWDR and/or Killington. Not sure where the lousy steering is coming from.
hillbangin
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Re: As baby boomers leave th ski slopes....

Post by hillbangin »

da Pimp wrote:I would love to know how the summer beach house market has been doing in the last 10-15 years that has seen the ski house scene fade away. Same people, same demographics, same influences on their disposable income and free time.

So many factors killed the ski house scene. I think the biggest and most negative factors in the ski industry have been escalating pricing and the economic downturn after 2008. Careers lost, savings lost, short or long term unemployment, or even the fear of any of those happening to you. And all of those issues might have happened to a significant other, forcing you to pull back the leisure reigns. Once you change your life routine or get distracted into another easier or more affordable spot, its real hard to motivate yourself and go back where you were. Remember that all the competing leisure time activities (bikes, kayaks, cruise ships, Caribbean destinations, hiking) have been working hard to grab your leisure time and disposable income.

But - look around New England and take stock of the increases in skier days at the competition, especially at Okemo. Killington dropped off perhaps 200,000 to 250,000 visits a year since they were a true Beast, and the competition has been INCREASING since the economic downturn in 2008 started to mediate. Imagine if there were just 100,000 to 150,000 more visits to Killington per year. I bet the nightlife, party scene, rental housing markets would be vastly better than now. Imagine 200,000 more visits! All that increased cash flow into POWDR would come with only a smaller increase in operating costs (some more lefties, a bit more snowmaking, more goods & supplies purchased in order to resell). I do not think that there would have been two embarrassing lifts still trudging along on Snowdon with a lot more cash flow in the last 8-10 years.

To that large and definable loss of business I spread the blame on the economic downturn, pricing, and POWDR policies. The customers that started coming back to winter sports did not return to the ski resorts in the same ratio with which they left it. That's all on POWDR.

I think Killington is trying to entice the millennials back (or to start up) with cheap season passes in their age group, lots of social media, and focused marketing programs. The problem with that is the competition is also doing the same things. So how do you get millennials to come to Killington?

How about actually going out into the marketplace IN PERSON and stop relying on pressing a computer button to make you feel like you did your job. The few marketing people or interns that I ever met at Killington were not capable of enticing me to butter my bread, let alone come to Killington and have a great time. They need to hire a fleet of inexpensive aspiring marketers out of college with personality and passion for skiing/riding and actually visit the cities & towns where the customers live. Attend all the public functions, create your own events, be in the public face. That is where you can win over new customers. Not by competing with the rest of New England's social media blitz.

And the ski house scene, seasonal attendance, fun factors would improve every year. Someone said this previously - "Don't build it, and they will come". That's POWDR and/or Killington. Not sure where the lousy steering is coming from.

The beach house market - rentals , summers, airbnb, etc - is on fire. Values on the Vineyard are more than doubled for the average place since 2008 - Killington is still flat.

Florida has also in general more than doubled at the beach since 2008.

The mountains always lag the beach - if the economy keeps going - VT will do better - but the real estate market is always better at the beach - the only mountains that buck the trend are Jackson, Aspen, Sun Valley, Park City, Vail, Telluride, etc. Super High end places with Jet landings within 10 miles of the resorts.

None of those places in VT. Stowe is the closest - the airport is too far away.
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Re: As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by Dr. NO »

Telluride has an airport, but it is on top of a hill with drops on both ends of the runway. Not suitable for commercial flights. Don't recall where we flew into, North East of Telluride. Took about an hour by bus to reach the resort. Google Earth Telluride Regional Airport. It is located just west of the town. scary approach and departure. Nearest full service airport is Montrose.
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Re: As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by GnarDawg »

I'm a millennial - born in 1983 - married, 1 kid, own a home in the greater Boston area. I have a max pass and plan on doing 1 weekend trip per month this winter. I typically kick off the ski year over new years eve at Killington. This year I'm going to most likely have to pass. The housing is so expensive on AirBnB, Home Away, etc. I've noticed more so in the past 3 or 4 years that on mountain housing and even the access road have sky rocketed not just for NYE but for most weekends. Additionally my typical crew for NYE has severely dwindled for the same type of reasons. Lift Ticket prices, housing prices, gear prices etc. on top of the cost of living in NE.

I'll always ski but it's getting harder to justify the holiday weekends at the mountains.
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Re: As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by da Pimp »

Why not join a ski house as a half share? Twice a month, learn about the lowest ticket prices, have a blast, network, improve your skills, etc. Gets you started in November. By the time January rolls around you are in shape to handle anything.

Taking the whole family makes finding a ski house more challenging, but they are out there. Certainly save a ton of money and the kids learn a sport that they can cherish forever. Create those parent/child bonds.
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Re: As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by DrJeff »

Another couple of factors to consider about the decrease in millennial involvement in the ski house scene in particular, is that in general, millennials are consuming less alcohol than Gen X'ers/Boomers, etc. Additionally being raised in the era of social media in many forms, millennials are tending to spend less face to face socializing times and more social media, non face to face socializing, as well as the regular use of dating apps often to replace the bar/party scene as an initial meeting place. The secondary social/party appeal of the ski house scene, for many millennials just isn't as big a draw as it was for Gen X'ers and Boomers, and with that taken into account as well, then the already mentioned cost factor and still some financial stability insecurity as a result of the financial collapse now approaching a decade ago, makes some millennials who may be on the fence about joining a ski house or not, a bit more skeptical rather than impulsive as previous generations were...
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Re: As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by icedtea »

I'm was born in 83. Somehow people say that I'm a millennial. Millennial are pussies.
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Re: As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by Kpdemello »

I think what we are seeing is that the millennial generation is experiencing a lower standard of living than the previous generation because of inflated housing prices, crazy student loans, and an ecomony in which only upper middle class salaries are seeing any growth.

In short, Millennials are too poor to ski.

Mountain biking is a hell of a lot cheaper. Even if you don't buy a lift ticket, there are plenty of places to Pedal for free once you get a bike. It's also possible to buy decent bikes for about the same price as ski equipment.
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Re: As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by Snowboardgod »

I’m 30. Moved to town here two years ago in order to snowboard as many days as possible for as long as possible. I used the 29 below pass for the first two season and the savings were helpful and nice to have available. We have a tough time even getting friends to come up with the high window rates now even though they never pay full price... still a lot. We go on a trip per year west when possible but it would be hard if we didn’t have family out there which alleviates some of the cost. I guess you have to really be a die hard now a days to make it happen. More for me!
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Re: As baby boomers leave th ski slopes....

Post by ME2VTSkier »

Mister Moose wrote:Walk up rate to ride the lift and bike down: $55
Walk up rate to ride the lift and ski down: $115

And we're surprised biking is more popular?

One thing that has changed dramatically in my lifetime is the change from "The price is the price" meaning the window rate is what every individual pays (Group sales over 20 ppl dealt with separately) to "Yield management". While yield management has extracted the maximum dollars, it does so at the cost of discouraging impulse buyers that can't stomach $115 but would pay $70. Is lower millennial participation an impact of yield management?
I'm sure the snowmaking and grooming expense for the MTBers is much lower... :wink: :lol:
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Re: As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

Post by Mistergiff »

Born in '84 here. By most definitions I guess that makes me a millennial. The affordability issue is definitely the reason this trend is present and its not just the cost of our sport its many layers deep. The only reason my wife and friends can ski all winter at K is that my now happily retired mid week skiing parents share their ski house with us and that our cost is only our labor in maintenance and cutting firewood. Contrast this to my father who built the place with this 3 closest friends in the mid 70s. All made decent but not crazy salaries. It was a commitment, but not a burden for them. Our crew is similarly placed with decent paying jobs, and we all live in a low cost city to boot (Pittsfield, Mass). The problem at the end of the day is that wages in the middle range just haven't moved in years. We've got way less purchasing power than our parents did at the same point in their lives. We're lucky! We've inherited an amazing situation and our whole ski crew has the great fortune to have good careers in a place where housing is inexpensive. Living in a major city would destroy my skiing budget and I haven't even mentioned student loans. Until incomes start increasing younger people just won't be able to afford to ski like their parents did.
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