As baby boomers leave the ski slopes....

[icedtea]

I think at the end of the day if you want to get on the mountain you will. Nothing wrong with earning turns. A lot of people go west, which is completely understandable.

There will always be people itching for their next turn.

[ME2VTSkier]

Killington's lack of affordable trailside, and ski in/ski out housing has got to be greatly holding them back. It doesn't seem to be as much a problem for the summer sports season customers.

I'm fortunate enough to have family 10-15 minutes from Skyeship, so that keeps me coming back.

[da Pimp]

You rarely see affordable anything next to a place that is an expensive activity. People invest in property either for personal use, or to make money. Building cheap and renting cheap just does not happen. Remember that there are a ton of small places around the access road that go unrented - all those ski houses built in the boom of the 70's and 80's can be had seasonally, monthly, weekly for small coin. Property owners who look to rent are not trying to attract customers looking for cheap places, they are looking for the upper end of the rental market that can afford higher rates. Wouldn't you?

Any millenials who want to rent do not look at Rutland or surrounding small towns for low pricing - they want the access road because the nightlife is a big attraction for them and they will pay more to avoid the drive. Families work to different priorities, with different budgets. There is something for everyone, but not much available for discounted low end stuff. There is always a reason why something rents cheap - location, poor water, steep driveway, old run down unit, and double up on location. What's more important to you? The market seems to indicate year after year that the location is the biggest driver, because the cheaper units within Killington have low rental activity compared to history.

[madhatter]

I'm was born in 83. Somehow people say that I'm a millennial. Millennial are pussies.

that's the year I graduated HS...

[icedtea]

I'm was born in 83. Somehow people say that I'm a millennial. Millennial are pussies.

that's the year I graduated HS...

We're all getting old.

[Mister Moose]

Comparing discretionary dollars in the 70s to now is interesting. Trust me, money wasn't being handed out on street corners then.

My early childhood was in a house built in the 50's. It had a one car garage and bedrooms barely bigger than a king size bed. My bedroom had no room for dressers, they were built into the eaves under the roof of the cape style second story. My bed was sub-twin, what ever that size was called. Just looked it up on Zillow, and it's 1,380 sq ft, for a family of 5. That's 276 sq ft per person.

From that small house (We didn't think of it as a small house) we skied in the Berkshires, had one Ma Bell phone, and got 3 channels over the air on rabbit ears in black and white. Sure, there was color TV down the street at my friend's house. They didn't ski.


Cars had no stereo, no electric windows, no AC, no nav display, no heated seats, no pollution controls, no back up camera, no nuthin. You got a clock, AM radio, and an ashtray. Cars were far cheaper to build.

Let's ask all the millenials on the board how big is your bed? How big is your house? What's your cable bill? What computer are you reading this on? How much is your internet? Your cell phone bill? Your car payment? Do you subscribe to any streaming services?

All those expenses were either much less for your parents, or didn't even exist.

I just did some baby shopping for a relative. They wanted a crib that later expands to a bed. A full size bed. Not a twin. "What??? A full size bed for a kid?", I asked. It's what people expect these days, I was told.

My parents slept in a full size bed until we moved to a larger house.

That full size bed for a child not only costs more, the sheets cost more. The bigger closet to hold the sheets costs more. The bigger room to hold the bigger bed costs way more. The property taxes and insurance on that bigger house costs more.

I think that with all the other changes our expectations can be added to the list. Look again at all those ski houses built in the 60s and 70s. The rooms are teeny and now undesirable. Go look at the bedrooms in Moon Ridge condos.

Ski in ski out wasn't ever affordable. When we skied Killington it was from a motel in Rutland.

So while I don't know offhand the price of skis, boots and poles, a weekend motel room, and a pizza today compared to adjusted 1975 dollars, I'm guessing the things we spend money on today is considerably different. We live larger, drive farther, and we spend proportionately far more on media and electronics.

And that leaves less money for skiing.

If you feel you have less money to ski, what size bed do you sleep in? How many square feet per person is your house?

[madhatter]

Comparing discretionary dollars in the 70s to now is interesting. Trust me, money wasn't being handed out on street corners then.

My early childhood was in a house built in the 50's. It had a one car garage and bedrooms barely bigger than a king size bed. My bedroom had no room for dressers, they were built into the eaves under the roof of the cape style second story. My bed was sub-twin, what ever that size was called. Just looked it up on Zillow, and it's 1,380 sq ft, for a family of 5. That's 276 sq ft per person.

From that small house (We didn't think of it as a small house) we skied in the Berkshires, had one Ma Bell phone, and got 3 channels over the air on rabbit ears in black and white. Sure, there was color TV down the street at my friend's house. They didn't ski.


Cars had no stereo, no electric windows, no AC, no nav display, no heated seats, no pollution controls, no back up camera, no nuthin. You got a clock, AM radio, and an ashtray. Cars were far cheaper to build.

Let's ask all the millenials on the board how big is your bed? How big is your house? What's your cable bill? What computer are you reading this on? How much is your internet? Your cell phone bill? Your car payment? Do you subscribe to any streaming services?

All those expenses were either much less for your parents, or didn't even exist.

I just did some baby shopping for a relative. They wanted a crib that later expands to a bed. A full size bed. Not a twin. "What??? A full size bed for a kid?", I asked. It's what people expect these days, I was told.

My parents slept in a full size bed until we moved to a larger house.

That full size bed for a child not only costs more, the sheets cost more. The bigger closet to hold the sheets costs more. The bigger room to hold the bigger bed costs way more. The property taxes and insurance on that bigger house costs more.

I think that with all the other changes our expectations can be added to the list. Look again at all those ski houses built in the 60s and 70s. The rooms are teeny and now undesirable. Go look at the bedrooms in Moon Ridge condos.

Ski in ski out wasn't ever affordable. When we skied Killington it was from a motel in Rutland.

So while I don't know offhand the price of skis, boots and poles, a weekend motel room, and a pizza today compared to adjusted 1975 dollars, I'm guessing the things we spend money on today is considerably different. We live larger, drive farther, and we spend proportionately far more on media and electronics.

And that leaves less money for skiing.

If you feel you have less money to ski, what size bed do you sleep in? How many square feet per person is your house?

a pass in the late 90's still cost around 1200 bux...

[XtremeJibber2001]

If you feel you have less money to ski, what size bed do you sleep in? How many square feet per person is your house?

King size My house is larger than my parents was at the same age.

I think it's cost prohibitive, for many, to bring their family to the slopes to vacation. For my family of 5 I can rent a 4-bedroom place a block from the beach for ~$2k during a prime week. Just need bathing suits and sunblock.

It's about the same cost for a similarly equipped rental home close to K, but add ski rentals, winter jackets/glove/helmet, and then ski tickets .... pretty $$$ compared to the shore.

[GnarDawg]

The problem with discretionary spending now and why I believe it's down is that Millennials have to save for a lot of things boomers didn't.

Per Month Spending/Saving
401k - $1420
IRA - $300
529 - $400
HSA - $150
Health Insurance Premiums/Deductables Up
Student Loans - $300

I know those things were around before I was born and people saved then also but the company I work for had a pension plan until the mid 90s. Now it's 401k only. They had fully paid medical benefits. Now it's a high deductible plan with an HSA. College costs are soaring. It's hard to balance the want to ski now vs. the want to ski when I'm retired. I know I won't ski as well when I'm older but I'll be able to ski a lot more then.

Comparing discretionary dollars in the 70s to now is interesting. Trust me, money wasn't being handed out on street corners then.

[madhatter]

The problem with discretionary spending now and why I believe it's down is that Millennials have to save for a lot of things boomers didn't.

Per Month Spending/Saving
401k - $1420
IRA - $300
529 - $400
HSA - $150
Health Insurance Premiums/Deductables Up
Student Loans - $300

I know those things were around before I was born and people saved then also but the company I work for had a pension plan until the mid 90s. Now it's 401k only. They had fully paid medical benefits. Now it's a high deductible plan with an HSA. College costs are soaring. It's hard to balance the want to ski now vs. the want to ski when I'm retired. I know I won't ski as well when I'm older but I'll be able to ski a lot more then. one can hope...

Comparing discretionary dollars in the 70s to now is interesting. Trust me, money wasn't being handed out on street corners then.

[da Pimp]

We all use Killington pricing, housing, proximity as our reference. But a lot of singles or families don't come near the bigger and more expensive places. They frequent the Berkshires, upper New York State, PA, CT. etc. and find much lower lift tickets, housing, lessons. This keeps them in the game and having a great time despite not having Outer Limits or Anarchy to play in.

Yes the high price of the modern skiing sport is realized in your lift ticket, housing, equipment, lessons, clothing, driving. You multiply those costs when coming to Killington, Okemo, Stowe, etc. Seems like we all want the pricing of Mohawk Mountain, Ski Liberty, Holiday Valley but demand the perks of Killington's terrain, snowfall, snowmaking, long season, nightlife. All that comes at a cost. Killington and all the other larger areas have designed their businesses to require those that can afford it to pay up, or head downhill where the product fits your budget.

What we are all trying to come to grips with is that Killington always had something for everyone - the rich, or the somewhat well off, or the average joe on a tight budget. Now, Killington is steadily migrating towards only those in the higher incomes. Very higher. Gee, isn't this what POWDR told us when they came to town - "we want less volume and higher margins." It's also what the other areas want. Except POWDR is willing to lose customers, those that are less capable financially. They are your feeders, the future of the industry, and the future customers who may and probably will have more disposable income in their future. POWDR does not care, they want more margin now. They are like most corporations - they will act responsibly towards the environment, towards social values, towards the health of their industry ONLY where it does not affect the bottom line. Those that do act outside of profit making are those who are so damn profitable and overloaded with cash flow that any funds that go towards "other interests" are just drops in their bucket.

[skixc2]

I was born in 1991. Generations are hard to define of course, but normally are in 20 year increments as follows:
1945-1965 baby Boomers
1965-1985 Generation X
1985-2005 Millinneals. (you know, that span the millennium)

I'm an unmarried 26 year old millinneal, living in western New Hampshire. (I was born, raised and educated in NH as well) I work a normal job as an engineer. I'm within 2 hours of almost every ski area in New England and 1 hour from Killington. My winter consists of my first passion: Nordic Skiing (racing), and my second passion: Alpine Skiing. I normally do not buy season passes because I like to spread my skiing around. I like to keep things interesting and varied and due to my excellent location I can always follow the best snow all over New England. This might include Alpine, Nordic or Backcountry endeavors. As day ticket prices increase this becomes harder, but keeps me on the lookout for deals and I do okay. (I've been priced out of Stowe, but anywhere else I'm still willing to pay to go) An "townie" season pass to Whaleback provides me very cheap Killington tickets whenever I want them, and New Hampshire resident deals at Cannon are a favorite.

I know I am not a normal millinneal based on my location and enthusiasm for skiing (which I do all spring until every last drop of snow is gone) I have never considered buying or renting a ski house or anything real estate related. I can get anywhere in New England for an easy day trip, so why should I bother with that? But even if I did want it, it will be a long, long time before I could afford it. I want to buy a real house to live in someday, but even that (in rural NH no less) is a long way down the road; and that's without any student loans or other debt.

Anyway - I don't know what's going on with others, but that's my two cents.

[Bubba]

Comparing discretionary dollars in the 70s to now is interesting. Trust me, money wasn't being handed out on street corners then.

My early childhood was in a house built in the 50's. It had a one car garage and bedrooms barely bigger than a king size bed. My bedroom had no room for dressers, they were built into the eaves under the roof of the cape style second story. My bed was sub-twin, what ever that size was called. Just looked it up on Zillow, and it's 1,380 sq ft, for a family of 5. That's 276 sq ft per person.

From that small house (We didn't think of it as a small house) we skied in the Berkshires, had one Ma Bell phone, and got 3 channels over the air on rabbit ears in black and white. Sure, there was color TV down the street at my friend's house. They didn't ski.


Cars had no stereo, no electric windows, no AC, no nav display, no heated seats, no pollution controls, no back up camera, no nuthin. You got a clock, AM radio, and an ashtray. Cars were far cheaper to build.

Let's ask all the millenials on the board how big is your bed? How big is your house? What's your cable bill? What computer are you reading this on? How much is your internet? Your cell phone bill? Your car payment? Do you subscribe to any streaming services?

All those expenses were either much less for your parents, or didn't even exist.

I just did some baby shopping for a relative. They wanted a crib that later expands to a bed. A full size bed. Not a twin. "What??? A full size bed for a kid?", I asked. It's what people expect these days, I was told.

My parents slept in a full size bed until we moved to a larger house.

That full size bed for a child not only costs more, the sheets cost more. The bigger closet to hold the sheets costs more. The bigger room to hold the bigger bed costs way more. The property taxes and insurance on that bigger house costs more.

I think that with all the other changes our expectations can be added to the list. Look again at all those ski houses built in the 60s and 70s. The rooms are teeny and now undesirable. Go look at the bedrooms in Moon Ridge condos.

Ski in ski out wasn't ever affordable. When we skied Killington it was from a motel in Rutland.

So while I don't know offhand the price of skis, boots and poles, a weekend motel room, and a pizza today compared to adjusted 1975 dollars, I'm guessing the things we spend money on today is considerably different. We live larger, drive farther, and we spend proportionately far more on media and electronics.

And that leaves less money for skiing.

If you feel you have less money to ski, what size bed do you sleep in? How many square feet per person is your house?

You probably also skied in jeans, a knit wool scarf and a knit hat, and you walked 2 miles to school in the snow, in 0 degree temperatures, up hill, both ways.

[snoloco]

I was born in 99. Been skiing since 04. Most of my generation has zero interest in getting outside at all. Most of them are on electronics constantly or drinking and partying. I don't do any of that. I put most of my free time and money towards skiing and get over 50 days a year. I go to college at Clarkson, and the closest major ski area to there is Whiteface. Got the Max Pass add-on as soon as they started offering it so now I can ski Killington and many other areas this season.

[snow4all]

Nope, not a millennial, but have two of them. One getting back into it, but is an artist, we happily support. The other bucking the millennial trend with 2 income earners and a new house. We joined a ski club to take the high cost of lodging out of the equation. As a result, we book 30-40 days a year, almost all at The Beast. With the myriad of options on ticket discounts (we go K-tix and Spring Pass) and it works out to about $650/ season. If early pass price stays stable will go pass next year. Ski clubs are not for everyone. You got to like the club set up, their "rules" and the members, but for us it has been great and has afforded us the opportunity to ski pretty much all we want.