Vail Resorts

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PinnacleJim
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by PinnacleJim »

The posters comparing Vail Resorts to ASC and predicting it's demise have not looked at their financials. Unlike ASC, Vail Resorts is profitable - VERY profitable. Last fiscal year MTN's net income was over $200 million on almost 2 billion in revenue. That's enough to buy four Stowes a year AFTER paying taxes and interest on their debt. And net income has increased five hundred percent in five years. There's a reason their stock PE is almost double the current market average.
brownman
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by brownman »

True .. butt ..
Does Vail have proven expertise in eminent domain and road construction :lol:
Without that or a monorail, getting there will remain a b!ch :sad:

:Toast
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freeski
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by freeski »

Mono meaning one.... Rail meaning Rail.
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13328951_499892970195849_342218519_n[1].jpg (16.44 KiB) Viewed 601 times
Monorails are the new ski area transportation solution. Big part of the interconnect at Killington.

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brownman
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by brownman »

Doode .. your crop is long on THC .. :lol:
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snoloco
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by snoloco »

I believe they are reporting their operating profit and that doesn't include debt which there must be a ton of. I'm sure companies also fudge the numbers in a way that would lead to an increase in share price but doesn't break any laws.

They're doing better than Peak Resorts which is operating at a loss and has lots of debt.

IMO it's scary that Vail has that much money to burn because they will end up monopolizing the entire industry and turning most areas into soulless amusement parks on a mountain and sticking it to the real skiers (riff raff in their minds).
PinnacleJim
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by PinnacleJim »

snoloco wrote:I believe they are reporting their operating profit and that doesn't include debt which there must be a ton of. I'm sure companies also fudge the numbers in a way that would lead to an increase in share price but doesn't break any laws.
And you would be wrong. They are a public company and must follow standard accounting standards. Check out MTN's income statements on the Wall Street Journal website. The last fiscal year shows $75 million in interest payments. That would mean over a billion in debt. Gross income (before taxes and interest) was over $400 million.

I have skied over 100 days at resorts run by Vail in recent years. Most things I like, but some I really do not. Parking and food costs in particular. But the mountains are well run, well maintained, and Vail has the cash flow to keep investing in them. Love them or hate them, you have to give them credit for finding a way to make money in an industry where profits have been very hard to come by.
freeski
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by freeski »

brownman wrote:Doode .. your crop is long on THC .. :lol:
That's it Brownman, I challenge you to a ski off. I know you're a better skier than me, butt I'm going to cheat.

Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit smoking California Poppy and Capt. Black.
I'm in a transitional period. I just pumped Morphine Sulfate (medical H) into my mother for 3 days then hit her with an anti-psych drug at the end. She died on Sept 11th and lived her whole life on her terms.

I didn't smoke, work and only drank a case of beer a year for 7 or so years. So, now you know the rest of the story...
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Mister Moose
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by Mister Moose »

JC Penney almost killed themselves by going to a low prices every day, no sales, no coupons type marketing. It failed. The CEO that installed the program was fired. They went back to Sunday sales circulars and the mark it up to mark it down method.

The conclusion? Shoppers like to think they're getting a deal, even if they're not.
Or we are even even a little more twisted than that: Shoppers like to tell themselves a little lie that they're getting a deal, even when they suspect they're not.



That might very well sum up Vail.

Sell discount passes, that's the deal consumers lap up.

Pricey parking and food gets the dollars back in the till, and so far customers don't revolt at the practice. Mark it up to mark it down, except Vail marks it down only to mark it up once you're captive.
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AtomicWoody
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by AtomicWoody »

I really think the ski industry is headed for a big crash like so many other companies / industries where greed is the main driving factor. At $150 a day people are just not going to accept it. Its going up way faster than inflation.
rogman
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by rogman »

Mister Moose wrote:JC Penney almost killed themselves by going to a low prices every day, no sales, no coupons type marketing. It failed. The CEO that installed the program was fired. They went back to Sunday sales circulars and the mark it up to mark it down method.

The conclusion? Shoppers like to think they're getting a deal, even if they're not.
Or we are even even a little more twisted than that: Shoppers like to tell themselves a little lie that they're getting a deal, even when they suspect they're not.



That might very well sum up Vail.

Sell discount passes, that's the deal consumers lap up.

Pricey parking and food gets the dollars back in the till, and so far customers don't revolt at the practice. Mark it up to mark it down, except Vail marks it down only to mark it up once you're captive.
Nobody makes you buy their food or drink their beer. I don't, and I only occasionally park in their lots. When I do, it is split among a bunch of us. I ski enough there that my pass cost is pretty well amortized. Vail resorts are only expensive if you buy the add ons.
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snoloco
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by snoloco »

I assume they ban outside food on the property or at least in the lodge and there's no way around paying for parking if you don't want to spend half an hour each way trying to take a bus to the lodge with thousands of your closest friends.
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Mister Moose
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by Mister Moose »

rogman wrote:
Mister Moose wrote:JC Penney almost killed themselves by going to a low prices every day, no sales, no coupons type marketing. It failed. The CEO that installed the program was fired. They went back to Sunday sales circulars and the mark it up to mark it down method.

The conclusion? Shoppers like to think they're getting a deal, even if they're not.
Or we are even even a little more twisted than that: Shoppers like to tell themselves a little lie that they're getting a deal, even when they suspect they're not.



That might very well sum up Vail.

Sell discount passes, that's the deal consumers lap up.

Pricey parking and food gets the dollars back in the till, and so far customers don't revolt at the practice. Mark it up to mark it down, except Vail marks it down only to mark it up once you're captive.
Nobody makes you buy their food or drink their beer. I don't, and I only occasionally park in their lots. When I do, it is split among a bunch of us. I ski enough there that my pass cost is pretty well amortized. Vail resorts are only expensive if you buy the add ons.
You might not be buying their beer and parking in their lots, but someone sure is.

From the 2017 Annual Report:

Revenue, in Millions

Lift operations...818
Ski School........ 177
Dining..............150
Retail & Rental...293
Other................171

The last 4 total 791, compared to 818 in lift revenue. That's a lot of "add-ons". That's about the same.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ ... m_10-K.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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snoloco
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by snoloco »

https://liftblog.com/2017/12/07/vail-re ... -perisher/

Zero lift investment at Stowe. Just as I predicted. But pouring money into Whistler and Park City.
rogman
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by rogman »

snoloco wrote:https://liftblog.com/2017/12/07/vail-re ... -perisher/

Zero lift investment at Stowe. Just as I predicted. But pouring money into Whistler and Park City.
A bit surprised, but I guess I shouldn't have been. It's really too soon: I suspect they want a year or two of operations under their belt before making changes. Your notion that they're bleeding Stowe to feed the other resorts is a bit premature, since so far there's been no significant revenue from it. The big story is they're spending $150 million on capital improvements this year alone.
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snoloco
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Re: Vail Resorts

Post by snoloco »

My post didn't say that they were bleeding Stowe dry to spend at other resorts. I think if anything happens it'll be 2019 or later. Lifts are usually planned about a year before they open. If they waited till spring to decide to get a lift at Stowe they'd be one of the last to order and be stuck with a late load test date which means it won't be ready till late December early Jan.

The one exception to Vail announcing all their lifts at once was Red Buffalo at Beaver Creek which is mostly the old Montezuma from Keystone but with brand new terminals and grips which I'm guessing they weren't planning on relocating initially and were just going to junk it.

I don't think Stowe will be a high priority for Vail going forward because it's going to sell them mass quantities of epic passes whether they invest in it or not. Although if they did do some big spending spree at Stowe it would pit pressure on K to react.
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