2018 - New stuff or never going to happen

[da Pimp]

No way the Rams Head chair goes back up to the original top. About 70% of the Rams Head customers cannot handle the pitches coming off the old top. And about 90% of the lessons that go thru there. That's a lot of cash flow that gets alienated. I remember seeing a plan that showed two chairs going in there, with a lodge in back of the top, that would handle whatever back & forth traffic developed. One chair up to Pico, one chair back up to Rams Head top. A major advantage of getting over to Pico is to get to great teaching terrain that is not crowded. Then an easy return to the K side.

To accomplish all of that will take a huge investment that would be great for 90 days of the season, less any bad weather weekends or poor snow times. Before Xmas and after March the lessons and family focus drops off sharply. Spend so many millions for 90 days at best? I would not. I would install the South Ridge chair, expand whatever terrain I could under it, upgrade the Snowdon quad, K1 lodge, permanently fix the lousy lift mechanicals, and train the staff more than 60 or 90 minutes a year. Then pray that the village never comes to fruition. Maybe SP Land will feel that their investment will never materialize as they planned a decade ago and sell back to POWDR. Then put in a smaller village with top shelf snowshed and rams lodges, more parking. Build up the Bear base area with the announced project to capitalize on its own 90 day season. How about a decent size yurt at Needles Eye? On top of Snowdon? Cold, wet, windy days occur more often that we care to admit. Drop a big Yurt in the woods between the quad unloading and the patrol hut.

[random1]

With an interconnect, I think pico base area could be the beginnings of a nice village. Way better than the current plans. And two smaller villages would have a cool vibe to it. A bit of that skiing village-to-village feel.


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[madhatter]

With an interconnect, I think pico base area could be the beginnings of a nice village. Way better than the current plans. And two smaller villages would have a cool vibe to it. A bit of that skiing village-to-village feel.


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where will people park?

[hillbangin]

With an interconnect, I think pico base area could be the beginnings of a nice village. Way better than the current plans. And two smaller villages would have a cool vibe to it. A bit of that skiing village-to-village feel.


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where will people park?

Next to the monorail they are putting in from the parking at the town lot to the new heated gondola they are installing inside of The Grand.

[random1]

With an interconnect, I think pico base area could be the beginnings of a nice village. Way better than the current plans. And two smaller villages would have a cool vibe to it. A bit of that skiing village-to-village feel.


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where will people park?

No idea, haven’t given it much thought to be honest. Even the existing pico base as it is could be far more enticing if a couple of shops and restaurants were added.

It’s going to be difficult adding a village anywhere after the fact, but that’s where we are.


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[Highway Star]

No way the Rams Head chair goes back up to the original top. About 70% of the Rams Head customers cannot handle the pitches coming off the old top. And about 90% of the lessons that go thru there. That's a lot of cash flow that gets alienated. I remember seeing a plan that showed two chairs going in there, with a lodge in back of the top, that would handle whatever back & forth traffic developed. One chair up to Pico, one chair back up to Rams Head top. A major advantage of getting over to Pico is to get to great teaching terrain that is not crowded. Then an easy return to the K side.

To accomplish all of that will take a huge investment that would be great for 90 days of the season, less any bad weather weekends or poor snow times. Before Xmas and after March the lessons and family focus drops off sharply. Spend so many millions for 90 days at best? I would not. I would install the South Ridge chair, expand whatever terrain I could under it, upgrade the Snowdon quad, K1 lodge, permanently fix the lousy lift mechanicals, and train the staff more than 60 or 90 minutes a year. Then pray that the village never comes to fruition. Maybe SP Land will feel that their investment will never materialize as they planned a decade ago and sell back to POWDR. Then put in a smaller village with top shelf snowshed and rams lodges, more parking. Build up the Bear base area with the announced project to capitalize on its own 90 day season. How about a decent size yurt at Needles Eye? On top of Snowdon? Cold, wet, windy days occur more often that we care to admit. Drop a big Yurt in the woods between the quad unloading and the patrol hut.

Wow you're really on point here. 90 days? Yeah that's useless. I mean, Bear, Sunrise, Skyeship lower and Pico are only open around 90 days - SHUT THEM DOWN! No need to run them at all really. People who have property there won't care, they'll just drive over to Killington Basin. Then, with Kilington's reduced size, they'll only get about 200k skier visits a year. They'll need far less lifts operating, far less employees, and will barely even have to make snow!!! You should submit this plan to Killington management immediately!

[Kpdemello]

It’s going to be difficult adding a village anywhere after the fact, but that’s where we are.

Is there a reason why they couldn't build a village at the bottom of the property that contains the interconnect? There seems to be a ton of space right by the access road they could use to build slopeside condos and all the other crap they want to put in, and they wouldn't have to get rid of parking, knock down/renovate buildings, etc. If they did it in conjunction with adding new lifts and trails, they'd be increasing their capacity to handle the crowds that sort of thing would bring, and it would all have that shiny brand new feel.

Maybe I'm just dreaming as I'm not sure what the ROI would be for spending what I assume would be a ton of cash, but that'd be where I'd want them to do the construction/expansion.

[ozzy]

No way Pico makes money in its current state. Powdr just comtinues to operate it on a shoestring budget because they don't want to deal with the outcry of shutting it down. Only way it's going to get better is if it's connected to Killington. No one else is buying it with the most visited ski area in the east next door.

Pico makes money on quantity these days. Like the old blackout pass. Think about it, every kid under the age of 18 in the state of VT is eligible for a $75 pass. So if a family of 4 all get early bird season pricing passes, it would cost around 1k. I've seen people from all over the state now transfer to Pico for this. Compare this to just about anywhere else. A family of 4 at Stratton, Okemo, Mt Snow (yes, i know this is a multi resort pass) or just about anywhere else the price would be 3K+. Kind of a no brainer. We were joking the other day saying that Pico makes more money selling hot chocolates than they do selling passes. And with that $427 pass (early bird pricing and after taxes) you get exactly that. shortened season, average snowmaking and a 5 day business week. Don't like it, go somewhere else. People don't seem to mind it as the place is packed on powder days and Fri-Sun.

[madhatter]

No way Pico makes money in its current state. Powdr just comtinues to operate it on a shoestring budget because they don't want to deal with the outcry of shutting it down. Only way it's going to get better is if it's connected to Killington. No one else is buying it with the most visited ski area in the east next door.

Pico makes money on quantity these days. Like the old blackout pass. Think about it, every kid under the age of 18 in the state of VT is eligible for a $75 pass. So if a family of 4 all get early bird season pricing passes, it would cost around 1k. I've seen people from all over the state now transfer to Pico for this. Compare this to just about anywhere else. A family of 4 at Stratton, Okemo, Mt Snow (yes, i know this is a multi resort pass) or just about anywhere else the price would be 3K+. Kind of a no brainer. We were joking the other day saying that Pico makes more money selling hot chocolates than they do selling passes. And with that $427 pass (early bird pricing and after taxes) you get exactly that. shortened season, average snowmaking and a 5 day business week. Don't like it, go somewhere else. People don't seem to mind it as the place is packed on powder days and Fri-Sun.

[boston_e]

No way Pico makes money in its current state. Powdr just comtinues to operate it on a shoestring budget because they don't want to deal with the outcry of shutting it down. Only way it's going to get better is if it's connected to Killington. No one else is buying it with the most visited ski area in the east next door.

Pico makes money on quantity these days. Like the old blackout pass. Think about it, every kid under the age of 18 in the state of VT is eligible for a $75 pass. So if a family of 4 all get early bird season pricing passes, it would cost around 1k. I've seen people from all over the state now transfer to Pico for this. Compare this to just about anywhere else. A family of 4 at Stratton, Okemo, Mt Snow (yes, i know this is a multi resort pass) or just about anywhere else the price would be 3K+. Kind of a no brainer. We were joking the other day saying that Pico makes more money selling hot chocolates than they do selling passes. And with that $427 pass (early bird pricing and after taxes) you get exactly that. shortened season, average snowmaking and a 5 day business week. Don't like it, go somewhere else. People don't seem to mind it as the place is packed on powder days and Fri-Sun.

I’d agree with all of this. I know a handful of people from out of state who buy Pico passes for the family. Even if they only get in 6 to 8 days it is worth it. I wonder how many like that there are?

[skiadikt]

No way the Rams Head chair goes back up to the original top. About 70% of the Rams Head customers cannot handle the pitches coming off the old top.

yup, also believe winds were a reason for shortening the lift and not having enough room to handle the hordes unloading from a hsq as opposed to slow double (never mind a 6-pack).

and do folks really think the interconnect's gonna get enough fannies to run an additional 6 lifts and a base lodge tues & wed, plus 2 lifts daily in addition to more snowmaking which is already stretched thin. ain't happening ...

[Highway Star]

You guys crack me up. The only real reason Rams Head was shortened was because two concurrent lifts were going to be installed directly next to it per ASC's 4-lift interconnect plans, then a long lift next to that, and a Pico side lift. So there was some sort of advantage of a shorter lift there.

But in reality, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why a modern high speed lift can't run to the top of Rams Head, and why trails can't be widened and graded to accommodate low ability skiers. This fits much better with having a simpler interconnect.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

CLEARLY?...you're new here. Painfully uninformed t'boot....

[eagle628]

Every time I ride the Snowdon Quad I look at the area between Snowdon and Rams Head and think about a lift starting midmountain below Great Bear and running to the true Rams Head summit. Seems like there's enough space in there to cut a couple trails, plus reopening the old terrain. It'd be dense, but less so than Snowdon and might take a little load off the quad from people skiing that side of the mountain.

[Mister Moose]

Every time I ride the Snowdon Quad I look at the area between Snowdon and Rams Head and think about...

Every time I drive up Pico Pass I look at the desolation of Tyrol Inn, Edelweiss Inn, The ex Vermont Tap house, Snow Angels, and the failing Cortina and think how is a village or Pico expansion ever going to work at these business levels?

Or The Heights, the burnt time shares above Pepino's, King's Pines, The Vistas, the unsold Great Eastern lots, the vacant expanse across from the Foundry, the languishing Kokopeli's, the forgotten Hemingway's, the great Bubba homestead, need I go on?

Not a lot of upward pressure.