2018 - New stuff or never going to happen

[hillbangin]

So - I heard a hair under 16,000 at K and Pico - 6000 in the r*in on Sunday.

If we don't get alot of new stuff next year - it's never going to happen.

The economy is on fire - People are taking lessons again - the ubar was slammed Saturday - The Spa at the Woods is making money - dogs and cats making love.

Interest rates are going up.

Anyway - point is - if not next year - it's never.

[Highway Star]

Build the Interconnect Now! No more excuses!!!

I do agree that it's about damn time we get some new stuff. Business is good. The new south ridge chair and tunnels are already planned/permitted to be installed, but who knows if that will actually happen. It kind of too bad, because I would have preferred something more ambitious and impactful, there's almost no way they would install two lifts. If the Village is ever going to break ground, they better do it now and do it fast while vacation market real estate is on the upswing.

There's also the factor of Ian Cumming's recent death, while his wife appears to still be alive, perhaps a good chunk of his sizable fortune went to John Cumming, which may free up more cash for capital improvements.

[boston_e]

Never build the interconnect! Pico does not need the Killington herbs and bozos over there and it will ruin the existing Pico dynamic.

That being said, do replace the SRT this summer!!!

[daytripper]

Let's get the damn interconnect going already, I think that's about the best thing that could be done to make Killington better right now. I don't expect to see it anytime soon unfortunately. I would be happy with a new South ridge lift but it seems they are reneging on the promise to do that this summer.

[snoloco]

No way Pico makes money in its current state. Powdr just comtinues to operate it on a shoestring budget because they don't want to deal with the outcry of shutting it down. Only way it's going to get better is if it's connected to Killington. No one else is buying it with the most visited ski area in the east next door.

[da Pimp]

I seem to remember an off the cuff comment from Mike S. a while back that Pico can actually turn a profit now that they close down when it is dead mid-week. Of course a bad snow year might get different results. In a "normal" year, Pico now holds its own.

Take a poll of ALL customers: What does Killington need in order to improve, or earn your repeat dollars. I bet an interconnect project is somewhere down on the bottom of a 20 item list, and that assumes that anyone in the general public (not a regular) even puts a connection to Pico on a wish list.

What I would believe if seen on that customer improvement list would be fixing the lift stoppages, upgrade the old lifts, more parking, better lodges. Because those four issues are what I hear 98% of the time from casual conversations on chairs or in bars.

Would I like an interconnect? Sure, moving some of the herd off the main mountain to populate an underutilized asset will help many things. Everyone wins on both sides of the interconnect except those that want no change forever.

The odds of an interconnect happening are tied to POWDR's willingness to invest in Killington. They haven't touched the big issues that hold back growth, so how the hell will POWDR see clear to cutting new trails, and a major lift investment? We are all worried that the south ridge might not get its chair, and those lift towers and trails are already paid for. Snowdon quad? Seems hopeless until a living village project drives that improvement.

[skiadikt]

Never build the interconnect! Pico does not need the Killington herbs and bozos over there and it will ruin the existing Pico dynamic.

That being said, do replace the SRT this summer!!!

just don't get the interconnect thing. when i ski pico, i enjoy it for it is and had one of my best days of the season there. some folks get crazed about the terrain in between but the commute from k will be a buzzkill. you'd have to first get to ramshead, take 2 lifts and then make the return trip and that only gets you back to ramshead. rather just drive there and make a day of it.

in addition, as it is, both k and pico are largely underutilized excepting for a busy saturday. the last thing they need is to build more lifts (and infrastructure) that won't run mid-week. just don't see the interconnect putting enough additional fannies in the seats to justify the roi and additional operating costs. dream on ...

[madhatter]

I seem to remember an off the cuff comment from Mike S. a while back that Pico can actually turn a profit now that they close down when it is dead mid-week. Of course a bad snow year might get different results. In a "normal" year, Pico now holds its own.

Take a poll of ALL customers: What does Killington need in order to improve, or earn your repeat dollars. I bet an interconnect project is somewhere down on the bottom of a 20 item list, and that assumes that anyone in the general public (not a regular) even puts a connection to Pico on a wish list.

What I would believe if seen on that customer improvement list would be fixing the lift stoppages, upgrade the old lifts, more parking, better lodges. Because those four issues are what I hear 98% of the time from casual conversations on chairs or in bars.

Would I like an interconnect? Sure, moving some of the herd off the main mountain to populate an underutilized asset will help many things. Everyone wins on both sides of the interconnect except those that want no change forever.

The odds of an interconnect happening are tied to POWDR's willingness to invest in Killington. They haven't touched the big issues that hold back growth, so how the hell will POWDR see clear to cutting new trails, and a major lift investment? We are all worried that the south ridge might not get its chair, and those lift towers and trails are already paid for. Snowdon quad? Seems hopeless until a living village project drives that improvement.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

...in the inimitable words of Judge Smails?....."You'll get NOTHING ...and like it!"...

[specialp]

Take a poll of ALL customers: What does Killington need in order to improve, or earn your repeat dollars.

They currently do this pretty well and do indeed take the feedback seriously. They obviously send out the season pass holder surveys and I have been approached by Killington employees in lodges with surveys for the casual folks. You are right with the interconnect being probably one of the lowest priorities. Let's face it, a lot of us would like it, but from a business perspective it makes no sense. Even Killington with huge Saturday crowds can pretty much handle them. Yeah there are lines, but it is manageable. So increasing terrain isn't really their problem, they actually are good in that respect. If they add the South Ridge they are more than good with capacity as that would offer a way out of the Bear Mountain trap, and a place for us to lap 11-2 on Saturdays at the peak times other than the canyon.

They absolutely need the village project as much as we aren't all fans of it. The days of loading up the station wagon, staying at a motel and hitting the slopes are fading away along with share houses. People these days want all inclusive packages with direct to lift lodging. That is where Killington is getting killed by Stowe and Okemo notch. The upper middle class/rich vacation crowd. Before I get roasted here, I am a share house person. I can see the trends though. If you are driving up on 91 on any given Friday night you will see all the luxury SUVs from CT going straight to Okemo for the weekend. People with families need things to do other than ski and party.

Investing in the lifts is something that absolutely has to be done due to the declining performance of them now. The amount of shutdowns for mechanical problems this year has been too much. But I don't see them investing in much more else until they get that village going because the other things are going to not bring in more revenue.

[Bubba]

Take a poll of ALL customers: What does Killington need in order to improve, or earn your repeat dollars.

They currently do this pretty well and do indeed take the feedback seriously. They obviously send out the season pass holder surveys and I have been approached by Killington employees in lodges with surveys for the casual folks. You are right with the interconnect being probably one of the lowest priorities. Let's face it, a lot of us would like it, but from a business perspective it makes no sense. Even Killington with huge Saturday crowds can pretty much handle them. Yeah there are lines, but it is manageable. So increasing terrain isn't really their problem, they actually are good in that respect. If they add the South Ridge they are more than good with capacity as that would offer a way out of the Bear Mountain trap, and a place for us to lap 11-2 on Saturdays at the peak times other than the canyon.

They absolutely need the village project as much as we aren't all fans of it. The days of loading up the station wagon, staying at a motel and hitting the slopes are fading away along with share houses. People these days want all inclusive packages with direct to lift lodging. That is where Killington is getting killed by Stowe and Okemo notch. The upper middle class/rich vacation crowd. Before I get roasted here, I am a share house person. I can see the trends though. If you are driving up on 91 on any given Friday night you will see all the luxury SUVs from CT going straight to Okemo for the weekend. People with families need things to do other than ski and party.

Investing in the lifts is something that absolutely has to be done due to the declining performance of them now. The amount of shutdowns for mechanical problems this year has been too much. But I don't see them investing in much more else until they get that village going because the other things are going to not bring in more revenue.

Agree they need a village, just not the plan they have now. It sucks, and if improved parking is high on customer desires, the current village plan is the exact opposite.

[boston_e]

Would I like an interconnect? Sure, moving some of the herd off the main mountain to populate an underutilized asset will help many things. Everyone wins on both sides of the interconnect except those that want no change forever.

If we assume it to be true that Pico holds its own now (I have heard the same in off the cuff type of remarks), what does Pico gain from the interconnect?

An influx of cars using Pico as a western gateway to Killington that the parking lot cannot handle?
A handful of traversing trails crossing into summit glades?
Higher pass prices?
The loss of the unique aspect of having two options with totally different vibes right next door to each other?
More crowds at lunchtime that the lodges cannot handle?

Not sure what is to gain here?

[madhatter]

Would I like an interconnect? Sure, moving some of the herd off the main mountain to populate an underutilized asset will help many things. Everyone wins on both sides of the interconnect except those that want no change forever.

If we assume it to be true that Pico holds its own now (I have heard the same in off the cuff type of remarks), what does Pico gain from the interconnect?

An influx of cars using Pico as a western gateway to Killington that the parking lot cannot handle?for sure
A handful of traversing trails crossing into summit glades?never heard of it...
Higher pass prices?
The loss of the unique aspect of having two options with totally different vibes right next door to each other?
More crowds at lunchtime that the lodges cannot handle?hard to find a seat there now, if it's above 10 degrees I eat outside...

Not sure what is to gain here?

I think you got a pretty good handle on it...

not to mention the abuse the nats will take...

[Highway Star]

If they do it right, a proper Interconnect involves replacing Rams Head with a 6-pack that goes the top of the ridge, and a Pico side lift. Then install the existing Rams Head HSQ lift in place of Snowdon. Plus some connecting trails. Should run about 10M. But who knows if the permitting can be changed.

[daytripper]

Would I like an interconnect? Sure, moving some of the herd off the main mountain to populate an underutilized asset will help many things. Everyone wins on both sides of the interconnect except those that want no change forever.

If we assume it to be true that Pico holds its own now (I have heard the same in off the cuff type of remarks), what does Pico gain from the interconnect?

An influx of cars using Pico as a western gateway to Killington that the parking lot cannot handle?
A handful of traversing trails crossing into summit glades?
Higher pass prices?
The loss of the unique aspect of having two options with totally different vibes right next door to each other?
More crowds at lunchtime that the lodges cannot handle?

Not sure what is to gain here?

Being open seven days a week.