Healthcare.gov

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Bubba
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Bubba »

Speaking of so-called Cadillac plans, here's the projected impact on the State of Vermont.

http://vermontbiz.com/news/november/cad ... -286323177" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not only does the analysis say it will cost Vermonters $9 million when it kicks in in 2018, it is projected that
Close to half of large employers in the US will be subject to the tax in 2018 and, by 2023, 82 percent of all health plans, public and private, will be hit by the tax, according to a recent analysis by human resources consultant Towers Watson
Just remember, if you like your plan you can keep it....and costs will go down.
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"

Killington Zone
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"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
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Coydog
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Coydog »

Bubba wrote:Speaking of so-called Cadillac plans, here's the projected impact on the State of Vermont.

http://vermontbiz.com/news/november/cad ... -286323177" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not only does the analysis say it will cost Vermonters $9 million when it kicks in in 2018, it is projected that
Close to half of large employers in the US will be subject to the tax in 2018 and, by 2023, 82 percent of all health plans, public and private, will be hit by the tax, according to a recent analysis by human resources consultant Towers Watson
Just remember, if you like your plan you can keep it....and costs will go down.
Frightening, that works out to almost $15 per Vermonter!
Bubba
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Bubba »

Coydog wrote:
Bubba wrote:Speaking of so-called Cadillac plans, here's the projected impact on the State of Vermont.

http://vermontbiz.com/news/november/cad ... -286323177" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not only does the analysis say it will cost Vermonters $9 million when it kicks in in 2018, it is projected that
Close to half of large employers in the US will be subject to the tax in 2018 and, by 2023, 82 percent of all health plans, public and private, will be hit by the tax, according to a recent analysis by human resources consultant Towers Watson
Just remember, if you like your plan you can keep it....and costs will go down.
Frightening, that works out to almost $15 per Vermonter!
Not the way taxes are paid here and what will it be 5 years later?
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"

Killington Zone
You can checkout any time you like,
but you can never leave

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald

"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
madhatter
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by madhatter »

Coydog wrote:
Bubba wrote:Speaking of so-called Cadillac plans, here's the projected impact on the State of Vermont.

http://vermontbiz.com/news/november/cad ... -286323177" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not only does the analysis say it will cost Vermonters $9 million when it kicks in in 2018, it is projected that
Close to half of large employers in the US will be subject to the tax in 2018 and, by 2023, 82 percent of all health plans, public and private, will be hit by the tax, according to a recent analysis by human resources consultant Towers Watson
Just remember, if you like your plan you can keep it....and costs will go down.
Frightening, that works out to almost $15 per Vermonter!
gruber math....
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Bubba
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Bubba »

Well, now that I have a few minutes, let's do the math. Start with 2018 at $9 million in new taxes on Vermont state employee insurance. According to the FY2013 State Workforce Report http://www.leg.state.vt.us/reports/2014 ... 295990.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the state had 7,475 full time employees. The $9 million in new taxes on insurance is, therefore, $1,2014 per employee in the first year. Will that cost be passed on to the employees? I doubt it, although some might. The rest will be passed on to taxpayers, probably 75% or more. Not sure how many income tax paying families there are in the state but since we're having trouble meeting costs now (tax receipts being behind created a $31 million hole in the current year and there's a projected $100 million shortfall next year) adding $6.75 million in revenue needs isn't small change. And, since our budget expenses are growing faster than the economy, the annual revenue shortfall can only grow, as will the Cadillac tax over time.

So Coydog, maybe you were right after all. It is frightening.
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"

Killington Zone
You can checkout any time you like,
but you can never leave

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald

"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Dr. NO
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Dr. NO »

Bubba wrote:Well, now that I have a few minutes, let's do the math. Start with 2018 at $9 million in new taxes on Vermont state employee insurance. According to the FY2013 State Workforce Report http://www.leg.state.vt.us/reports/2014 ... 295990.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the state had 7,475 full time employees. The $9 million in new taxes on insurance is, therefore, $1,2014 per employee in the first year. Will that cost be passed on to the employees? I doubt it, although some might. The rest will be passed on to taxpayers, probably 75% or more. Not sure how many income tax paying families there are in the state but since we're having trouble meeting costs now (tax receipts being behind created a $31 million hole in the current year and there's a projected $100 million shortfall next year) adding $6.75 million in revenue needs isn't small change. And, since our budget expenses are growing faster than the economy, the annual revenue shortfall can only grow, as will the Cadillac tax over time.

So Coydog, maybe you were right after all. It is frightening.
Damn, this sounds like Gov. Malloy and the CT legislature moved to Vermont to screw up another state.
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madhatter
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by madhatter »

Bubba wrote:Well, now that I have a few minutes, let's do the math. Start with 2018 at $9 million in new taxes on Vermont state employee insurance. According to the FY2013 State Workforce Report http://www.leg.state.vt.us/reports/2014 ... 295990.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the state had 7,475 full time employees. The $9 million in new taxes on insurance is, therefore, $1,2014 per employee in the first year. Will that cost be passed on to the employees? I doubt it, although some might. The rest will be passed on to taxpayers, probably 75% or more. Not sure how many income tax paying families there are in the state but since we're having trouble meeting costs now (tax receipts being behind created a $31 million hole in the current year and there's a projected $100 million shortfall next year) adding $6.75 million in revenue needs isn't small change. And, since our budget expenses are growing faster than the economy, the annual revenue shortfall can only grow, as will the Cadillac tax over time.

So Coydog, maybe you were right after all. It is frightening.
coydog is simply a propagandist tool hellbent on sticking his hands in your pockets to distribute as he sees fairly...facts are something that are inconvenient and get in the way of his utopian fantasy and YOU are standing in the way of that...when push eventually comes to shove the progressives will be shoved into neat little holes in the ground as needed...and deservedly so...

even scumbag chuck schumer is coming out against the ACA and its misrepresented misguided goals...Unfortunately he is only doing this to save his own rotten @ss...now that there is so much sand in the vaseline that it will be nearly impossible to remove it, the dumpofcraps are scrambling to save their own sorry @sses...they don;t care about voters only votes, they aren;t sorry they passed it they are only sorry gruber exposed them...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Bubba
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Bubba »

And now, for you fans of Obamacare, more from Jonathan Gruber, distinguished professor of arrogance and key advisor on the Affordable (hah!) Care Act:

http://theweek.com/article/index/274320 ... affordable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you take the time to read what he actually said in the lecture, it's not quite as bad as it sounds but he knew (as I'm sure others did) that the ACA would end up being the UnACA in short order and this was one more act of taking advantage of the stupidity of the American people.
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"

Killington Zone
You can checkout any time you like,
but you can never leave

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald

"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Coydog
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Coydog »

Bubba wrote:Well, now that I have a few minutes, let's do the math. Start with 2018 at $9 million in new taxes on Vermont state employee insurance. According to the FY2013 State Workforce Report http://www.leg.state.vt.us/reports/2014 ... 295990.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the state had 7,475 full time employees. The $9 million in new taxes on insurance is, therefore, $1,2014 per employee in the first year. Will that cost be passed on to the employees? I doubt it, although some might. The rest will be passed on to taxpayers, probably 75% or more. Not sure how many income tax paying families there are in the state but since we're having trouble meeting costs now (tax receipts being behind created a $31 million hole in the current year and there's a projected $100 million shortfall next year) adding $6.75 million in revenue needs isn't small change. And, since our budget expenses are growing faster than the economy, the annual revenue shortfall can only grow, as will the Cadillac tax over time.

So Coydog, maybe you were right after all. It is frightening.
From your posted article, the $9M figure is a very crude estimate for the total impact of the Cadillac tax on both public and private plans in Vermont. The estimated impact on public plans is $6.8M if no changes are made. Figuring roughly 200,000 taxpayers in Vermont, that’s about $34 per taxpayer – again if absolutely no changes are made to the public plans.

Of course, many public and private plans will adjust to minimize or avoid the tax, fulfilling the very purpose of the tax to begin with.
madhatter
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by madhatter »

Bubba wrote:And now, for you fans of Obamacare, more from Jonathan Gruber, distinguished professor of arrogance and key advisor on the Affordable (hah!) Care Act:

http://theweek.com/article/index/274320 ... affordable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you take the time to read what he actually said in the lecture, it's not quite as bad as it sounds but he knew (as I'm sure others did) that the ACA would end up being the UnACA in short order and this was one more act of taking advantage of the stupidity of the American people.
The problem is it starts to go hand in hand with the mandate; you can't mandate insurance that's not affordable. This is going to be a major issue.
and then the people will beg for the benevolent govt to step in and provide single payer coverage for all...sand in the vaseline...

the same thing will happen when social unrest and the decay of respect for the police and the law itself get to the point that chaos ensues...The people will then beg the govt to step in w military force to quell the uprisings and restore "safety"...

eventually we'll be forced to answer the following as well...

Image

the answer won't be anything that anyone even remotely enjoys ...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
XtremeJibber2001
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

Coydog wrote:Of course, many public and private plans will adjust to minimize or avoid the tax, fulfilling the very purpose of the tax to begin with.
By adjust, do you mean reduce benefits?
Geoff
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Geoff »

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
Coydog wrote:Of course, many public and private plans will adjust to minimize or avoid the tax, fulfilling the very purpose of the tax to begin with.
By adjust, do you mean reduce benefits?
You have the secret decoder ring.

ACA won't last much beyond the next Presidential election. Personally, I think the solution is to scale Medicaid coverage from being 95% as good as private health insurance back to being about 60% as good as private health insurance. Allow anybody to opt into the program with means-tested premiums, means-tested co-pays, and means-tested deductible. A bare-bones single payer system as health care of last resort. The rest of us can continue on with private health insurance. I'd also kill off the nonsense in the COBRA act that requires emergency rooms to take anybody who walks in. If you're an illegal or if you're a moron who opts out of paying the premiums, you die a painful death on the sidewalk.
Image
Bubba
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Bubba »

Coydog wrote:
Bubba wrote:Well, now that I have a few minutes, let's do the math. Start with 2018 at $9 million in new taxes on Vermont state employee insurance. According to the FY2013 State Workforce Report http://www.leg.state.vt.us/reports/2014 ... 295990.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the state had 7,475 full time employees. The $9 million in new taxes on insurance is, therefore, $1,2014 per employee in the first year. Will that cost be passed on to the employees? I doubt it, although some might. The rest will be passed on to taxpayers, probably 75% or more. Not sure how many income tax paying families there are in the state but since we're having trouble meeting costs now (tax receipts being behind created a $31 million hole in the current year and there's a projected $100 million shortfall next year) adding $6.75 million in revenue needs isn't small change. And, since our budget expenses are growing faster than the economy, the annual revenue shortfall can only grow, as will the Cadillac tax over time.

So Coydog, maybe you were right after all. It is frightening.
From your posted article, the $9M figure is a very crude estimate for the total impact of the Cadillac tax on both public and private plans in Vermont. The estimated impact on public plans is $6.8M if no changes are made. Figuring roughly 200,000 taxpayers in Vermont, that’s about $34 per taxpayer – again if absolutely no changes are made to the public plans.

Of course, many public and private plans will adjust to minimize or avoid the tax, fulfilling the very purpose of the tax to begin with.
Source for the number of taxpayers? Also, how are you defining taxpayers? Is that number of returns filed or something else?

So 'if you like your plan you can keep your plan" is no longer operative?
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"

Killington Zone
You can checkout any time you like,
but you can never leave

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald

"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
madhatter
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by madhatter »

Bubba wrote:
Coydog wrote:
Bubba wrote:Well, now that I have a few minutes, let's do the math. Start with 2018 at $9 million in new taxes on Vermont state employee insurance. According to the FY2013 State Workforce Report http://www.leg.state.vt.us/reports/2014 ... 295990.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the state had 7,475 full time employees. The $9 million in new taxes on insurance is, therefore, $1,2014 per employee in the first year. Will that cost be passed on to the employees? I doubt it, although some might. The rest will be passed on to taxpayers, probably 75% or more. Not sure how many income tax paying families there are in the state but since we're having trouble meeting costs now (tax receipts being behind created a $31 million hole in the current year and there's a projected $100 million shortfall next year) adding $6.75 million in revenue needs isn't small change. And, since our budget expenses are growing faster than the economy, the annual revenue shortfall can only grow, as will the Cadillac tax over time.

So Coydog, maybe you were right after all. It is frightening.
From your posted article, the $9M figure is a very crude estimate for the total impact of the Cadillac tax on both public and private plans in Vermont. The estimated impact on public plans is $6.8M if no changes are made. Figuring roughly 200,000 taxpayers in Vermont, that’s about $34 per taxpayer – again if absolutely no changes are made to the public plans.

Of course, many public and private plans will adjust to minimize or avoid the tax, fulfilling the very purpose of the tax to begin with.
Source for the number of taxpayers? Also, how are you defining taxpayers? Is that number of returns filed or something else?

So 'if you like your plan you can keep your plan" is no longer operative?
I want to know how 34 dollars more per taxpayer equals a 2500 dollar savings per family?
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Coydog
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Re: Healthcare.gov

Post by Coydog »

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
Coydog wrote:Of course, many public and private plans will adjust to minimize or avoid the tax, fulfilling the very purpose of the tax to begin with.
By adjust, do you mean reduce benefits?
By adjust, most Vermont taxpayers would probably mean reduce costs. The particular plan benefits provided above the minimum will be determined by the marketplace.
Bubba wrote: Source for the number of taxpayers? Also, how are you defining taxpayers? Is that number of returns filed or something else?

So 'if you like your plan you can keep your plan" is no longer operative?
Burlington Free Press, April 2014

Last year, Vermonters filed more than 300,000 income tax returns and paid a total of about $550 million to the state, which makes the personal income tax the largest single revenue source for the state’s General Fund. The income tax raises more than twice as much as the sales tax, the next largest revenue source for the state.

Low income Vermonters pay no income tax. Indeed, when programs such as the earned income tax credit are considered, in the aggregate taxpayers with incomes under $30,000 received $2 million more in payments from the state in the form of tax credits than they paid in state income taxes.

I assumed 33% of filers did not pay any state income tax to arrive at a 200,000 estimate. Whatever, however you cut it, if the plans don’t change, the tax hit is nominal. And if you believe taxpayer funded plans should not change to avoid the Cadillac tax because state workers must be able to keep their plans if they like them, then you are in effect arguing Vermont should not reduce the budget in part by reigning in state worker health insurance costs.
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