Obama's world

[Atomic1]

The bottom line is this : If it was Japan making a statement FIRST about being sorry for starting the war by bombing Pearl Harbor and Killing Americans then I could understand Obamas statement as a response , but to go over there and act like it was all our fault just shows how he truly feels about America .
Has Japan ever come over here and apologized for what they started ?

What statement did Obama make that so offends your ignorance? Tell us, so we'll all know. It wasn't an apology by any means so what is it that bothers you so?

Again, if Japan came here and apologized for bombing Pearl Harbor FIRST and killing Americans then I could understand Obamas response , but the " a terrible force unleashed" just makes it sound like we were wrong to do what we did and that's not how I think we should be remembering Memorial Day. Bubba you've been making excuses for this President since day one along with making pers. insults at my opinions , however as is evidenced by the Turning tide in American poll numbers my opinion isn't as " ignorant" as you claim and I'll continue to inject my thoughts , thank-you !
Maybe I'm reading too much into it but Obamas recently apologizing to the likes of Iran and even ISIS has me in a defensive mind set .

[Mister Moose]

I think I'll side with the opinion of our 34th President who was actually around at the time, a five star general and a brilliant military mind over some warmongering right wing crackpot who likes to fashion himself some sort of Internet intellectual.

Thanks

No problem with your siding with Eisenhower. You do seem to have trouble with the use of the phrase war mongering correctly, and habitually resort to seething insults when your previous argument is scrutinized.

Could it have been done differently? Of course. Would that different way have resulted in less than the 70,000 deaths at Hiroshima and 40,000 at Nagasaki? And how many American lives would that way have cost? Those questions are speculation. What we do know is that the war ended as a result. Your version is uncertain.

On Truman's decision:

"Supporters of Truman's decision argue that, given the tenacious Japanese defense of the outlying islands, the bombings saved hundreds of thousands of lives that would have been lost invading mainland Japan. Critics have argued that the use of nuclear weapons was inherently immoral. Truman strongly defended himself in his memoirs in 1955–56, stating that many lives could have been lost had the U.S. invaded mainland Japan. In 1963 he stood by his decision, telling a journalist "it was done to save 125,000 youngsters on the American side and 125,000 on the Japanese side from getting killed and that is what it did. It probably also saved a half million youngsters on both sides from being maimed for life."

Truman did not act alone, he acted with the consensus of many. The fact that there were dissenters at the time only proves the openness and opportunity for personal liberty and expression that is America. Every decision has second guessing after the fact.

You choose to second guess, I choose to honor those that earned that right for you to do so, human and flawed as those forebears may be. There's a difference.

[freeski]

Obama often speaks out of both sides of his mouth. The administration released a statement right before he left saying he would not apologize. So you knew what was coming. Why did he go to Japan to talk about disarmament Hugging the survivor He was clearly saying dropping the bomb was a mistake. Is that an apology Of course it is. There's an article on Yahoo today about how we didn't need to use nukes. These revisionist theories hold as much water as most crap on the internet. The sad thing is in another decade (or less) all of the WWII veterans will be gone and you won't hear the stories of the guys on the boats headed to invade Japan and how their lives were saved by forcing Japan to surrender.

[Dr. NO]

Interesting read from Wikipedia regarding plans to invade the Main Islands of Japan from Okinawa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Numbers are a lot higher for both sides on such an invasion with some speculating 1 million possible losses on both sides.

Another read is search for Japanese Suicides in WWII. After invading and capturing several islands heading to Japan, several thousand civilians were forced or decided to commit suicide, mostly by diving off cliffs to the rocks and ocean below. Mothers would throw children off the cliff and then jump to their own death.

[Bubba]

The world was forever changed here, but today the children of this city will go through their day in peace. What a precious thing that is. It is worth protecting, and then extending to every child. That is a future we can choose, a future in which Hiroshima and Nagasaki are known not as the dawn of atomic warfare but as the start of our own moral awakening.

I would ask what is our moral awakening? Our actions against Japan were defensive ones, and our actions to end the war were not lacking in morals. It was moral to end the Japanese threat, and it was moral to end it in such a way that saved countless millions of additional lives on both sides caused from protracted fighting with traditional weapons.

I have a personal connection to this, as my Mom's cousin was the Officer On Deck on the Arizona during the attack, and he was killed at Pearl Harbor. My wife would likely not have been born if her father had continued his deployment in the Pacific navy.

Tell me where our moral awakening is, and then we'll see about where the apology is.

I think I'll spend part of Memorial Day thinking about the moral awakening of the men and women that gave all and died in service to our country, who gave us what we enjoy today, rather than some convoluted idea that firing the final shot that brought peace is in some way any less moral and needs to be awakened from.

I think if you take the "our moral awakening" phrase in the context of the speech - about the hope for ending nuclear weapons entirely - then the "our" refers to humanity and not the United States alone. Granted, the elimination of weaponry - any weaponry - after its development is nothing but a pipe dream (kind of like John Lennon's "Imagine") but it's nice to have aspirations, however unrealistic they may be.

I have no issue with our actions during WW II, whether the firebombing of Dresden or the use of atomic weapons in Japan. Millions had already died by the time of those events and bringing the Axis (clearly "of evil") powers to their knees quickly and ending the larger carnage was the goal. I too had family members in the war - an uncle and several of my parents' cousins at a minimum - and they all came home alive and uninjured. I'm not sure I would be able to say that had the war dragged on further in Europe and especially in the Pacific. I lost a lot of family to the Nazi terror - family I obviously never knew - in eastern Europe and even though I never knew them, one visit to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC and seeing all the photographs of people from the exact region where those relatives lived brings forth a lot from inside. Seeing those photos and realizing some of those people might be my relatives made an interesting visit and trip through terrible times far more personal for me than I could have imagined. No regrets; no apology required.

[madhatter]

The world was forever changed here, but today the children of this city will go through their day in peace. What a precious thing that is. It is worth protecting, and then extending to every child. That is a future we can choose, a future in which Hiroshima and Nagasaki are known not as the dawn of atomic warfare but as the start of our own moral awakening.

I would ask what is our moral awakening? Our actions against Japan were defensive ones, and our actions to end the war were not lacking in morals. It was moral to end the Japanese threat, and it was moral to end it in such a way that saved countless millions of additional lives on both sides caused from protracted fighting with traditional weapons.

I have a personal connection to this, as my Mom's cousin was the Officer On Deck on the Arizona during the attack, and he was killed at Pearl Harbor. My wife would likely not have been born if her father had continued his deployment in the Pacific navy.

Tell me where our moral awakening is, and then we'll see about where the apology is.

I think I'll spend part of Memorial Day thinking about the moral awakening of the men and women that gave all and died in service to our country, who gave us what we enjoy today, rather than some convoluted idea that firing the final shot that brought peace is in some way any less moral and needs to be awakened from.

I think if you take the "our moral awakening" phrase in the context of the speech - about the hope for ending nuclear weapons entirely - then the "our" refers to humanity and not the United States alone. Granted, the elimination of weaponry - any weaponry - after its development is nothing but a pipe dream (kind of like John Lennon's "Imagine") but it's nice to have aspirations, however unrealistic they may be.I dunno about that, unrealistic aspirations ain't really much of anything...

I have no issue with our actions during WW II, whether the firebombing of Dresden or the use of atomic weapons in Japan. Millions had already died by the time of those events and bringing the Axis (clearly "of evil") powers to their knees quickly and ending the larger carnage was the goal. I too had family members in the war - an uncle and several of my parents' cousins at a minimum - and they all came home alive and uninjured. I'm not sure I would be able to say that had the war dragged on further in Europe and especially in the Pacific. I lost a lot of family to the Nazi terror - family I obviously never knew - in eastern Europe and even though I never knew them, one visit to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC and seeing all the photographs of people from the exact region where those relatives lived brings forth a lot from inside. Seeing those photos and realizing some of those people might be my relatives made an interesting visit and trip through terrible times far more personal for me than I could have imagined. No regrets; no apology required.

[Bubba]

The bottom line is this : If it was Japan making a statement FIRST about being sorry for starting the war by bombing Pearl Harbor and Killing Americans then I could understand Obamas statement as a response , but to go over there and act like it was all our fault just shows how he truly feels about America .
Has Japan ever come over here and apologized for what they started ?

What statement did Obama make that so offends your ignorance? Tell us, so we'll all know. It wasn't an apology by any means so what is it that bothers you so?

Again, if Japan came here and apologized for bombing Pearl Harbor FIRST and killing Americans then I could understand Obamas response , but the " a terrible force unleashed" just makes it sound like we were wrong to do what we did and that's not how I think we should be remembering Memorial Day. Bubba you've been making excuses for this President since day one along with making pers. insults at my opinions , however as is evidenced by the Turning tide in American poll numbers my opinion isn't as " ignorant" as you claim and I'll continue to inject my thoughts , thank-you !
Maybe I'm reading too much into it but Obamas recently apologizing to the likes of Iran and even ISIS has me in a defensive mind set .

What I have been asking you to do is tell me where he apologized or even said what we did was wrong. Mister Moose gave a specific example and, while possibly out of context, at least justifies his position. You, on the other hand, confuse opinion with evidence. When you make statements and get challenged, you mostly cite more opinion rather than anything specific. Even now, you cite a turning tide of poll numbers as evidence. That's not evidence of anything other that millions of other people may be ignorant as well. It's like when I served on a criminal jury years ago in NY. There was one jury member who basically believed the guy was guilty so the facts of the evidence didn't matter to him. With you, Obama is guilty, so discussing the facts of his speech are of no consequence to you. That may work in the sports forum but not here.

[freeski]

There was a time when it looked like the horrors of WWII was height of what humans could do to each other and things would get better. We thought the world would ban together to stop future evil. It's troubling other countries haven't pitched in to stop what's going on in the Middle East and the U.S. has also come up short.

[Dickc]

Obama is over in Japan apologizing for America dropping the 2 nuclear bombs in 1945 . Did Japan apologize for bombing Pearl Harbor and STARTING the war that we had to end dramatically in 1945 ?

We should have dropped 4 on Tokyo and wiped out the leaders. Maybe there wouldn't have been anyone to surrender to us, but we could have worked around that. The Japanese were worse than animals; pure evil. They deserved every kiloton they got.

Nice. Memorial Day weekend. A time of remembrance for those who paid the ultimate price and what are you thinking about? More people should have died. It wasn't enough.

You do recognize that dropping those bombs was essentially unnecessary. Japan was defeated. The targets had no military purpose.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-r ... es/5308192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dropping those bombs should never have happened. The only benefit was potentially a realization that nuclear war should never ever be considered. Not sure so many innocent people needed to die to prove that.

Yet, you would have liked to seen at least twice as many people die, perhaps even more than that. 4 nukes on Tokyo would have had massively more casualties. You sound like a Muslim extremist TBH. Nice values. You share the same moral compass as those you profess to hate.

DeadHeadSkier, My father was in Nebraska training with a B-29 squadron. The had orders on August 5th to pack their bags. In the morning they would be moving out. They arose at 04:00, had breakfast (a GOOD one too) at 04:30. At 05:30 they reported to briefing as trucks picked up their gear to take it to the bombers. Once in briefing, they were stunned to hear about the first atomic bomb. They were told to get their bags off the trucks, but keep them packed and ready to go at a moments notice. August 9th, they were told they could now unpack them, as they would not be needed.

If these bombs had not been dropped, my Dad would have proceeded to Guam and likely been sent over Japan. He had decent odds of surviving and coming home to marry my mother and have my two sisters and me, but I KNOW, that his not having to go made SURE OF HIM LIVING TO HAVE ME.

Believe what you want about those bombs, but understand that I will always be grateful they did drop them as it made sure I could be here today. If you look around hard enough, you can find Marines, Navy, and ground Army that would also have been put in harms way without those bombs. You might feel Japan was beaten and would have called it quits soon enough, but how many American lives were saved from the use of the bombs? Even if it was only a handful, it was moral and just. They started the stupid war, not us, and we had a responsibility to protect our men in uniforms by finishing it any way we could. Anyone who does not think this I would NEVER want to be our president.

[Mister Moose]

The world was forever changed here, but today the children of this city will go through their day in peace. What a precious thing that is. It is worth protecting, and then extending to every child. That is a future we can choose, a future in which Hiroshima and Nagasaki are known not as the dawn of atomic warfare but as the start of our own moral awakening.

I would ask what is our moral awakening? ...

I think if you take the "our moral awakening" phrase in the context of the speech - about the hope for ending nuclear weapons entirely - then the "our" refers to humanity and not the United States alone. Granted, the elimination of weaponry - any weaponry - after its development is nothing but a pipe dream (kind of like John Lennon's "Imagine") but it's nice to have aspirations, however unrealistic they may be.

If I stretch and allow for a broad interpretation, yes, I realized it could refer to humanity, or perhaps just the two nations who were historically tied together on that day, the US and Japan. However the word 'our' is inclusive in any interpretation, meaning the US can choose to be part of the moral awakening. Hiroshima IS the context. I find that objectionable.

This president is completely capable of being eloquent and using precise language. Using imprecise language to muddle a feel good statement is by his choice. And as you note the elimination of any weaponry is unrealistic. (I would add the inclusion of all humanity in the moral awakening is equally unrealistic and certainly wouldn't include those nations that still seek to conquer.) Why then incorporate such ambiguous language, if not to try assuage more than one group at once? Why extol the virtues of a fool's dream of the end of all conflict?

Don't muddlemouth history, and don't muddlemouth something as important as the lessons of world war that carried a severe price.

[steamboat1]

DeadHeadSkier, My father was in Nebraska training with a B-29 squadron. The had orders on August 5th to pack their bags. In the morning they would be moving out. They arose at 04:00, had breakfast (a GOOD one too) at 04:30. At 05:30 they reported to briefing as trucks picked up their gear to take it to the bombers. Once in briefing, they were stunned to hear about the first atomic bomb. They were told to get their bags off the trucks, but keep them packed and ready to go at a moments notice. August 9th, they were told they could now unpack them, as they would not be needed.

If these bombs had not been dropped, my Dad would have proceeded to Guam and likely been sent over Japan. He had decent odds of surviving and coming home to marry my mother and have my two sisters and me, but I KNOW, that his not having to go made SURE OF HIM LIVING TO HAVE ME.

Believe what you want about those bombs, but understand that I will always be grateful they did drop them as it made sure I could be here today. If you look around hard enough, you can find Marines, Navy, and ground Army that would also have been put in harms way without those bombs. You might feel Japan was beaten and would have called it quits soon enough, but how many American lives were saved from the use of the bombs? Even if it was only a handful, it was moral and just. They started the stupid war, not us, and we had a responsibility to protect our men in uniforms by finishing it any way we could. Anyone who does not think this I would NEVER want to be our president.

Don't try to rationalize with the "DEAD HEAD" & I mean dead. He'd just assume to give away this country because otherwise you're racist, biased & a whole list of phobia's if you believe otherwise. Just ask him.

[Dickc]

DeadHeadSkier, My father was in Nebraska training with a B-29 squadron. The had orders on August 5th to pack their bags. In the morning they would be moving out. They arose at 04:00, had breakfast (a GOOD one too) at 04:30. At 05:30 they reported to briefing as trucks picked up their gear to take it to the bombers. Once in briefing, they were stunned to hear about the first atomic bomb. They were told to get their bags off the trucks, but keep them packed and ready to go at a moments notice. August 9th, they were told they could now unpack them, as they would not be needed.

If these bombs had not been dropped, my Dad would have proceeded to Guam and likely been sent over Japan. He had decent odds of surviving and coming home to marry my mother and have my two sisters and me, but I KNOW, that his not having to go made SURE OF HIM LIVING TO HAVE ME.

Believe what you want about those bombs, but understand that I will always be grateful they did drop them as it made sure I could be here today. If you look around hard enough, you can find Marines, Navy, and ground Army that would also have been put in harms way without those bombs. You might feel Japan was beaten and would have called it quits soon enough, but how many American lives were saved from the use of the bombs? Even if it was only a handful, it was moral and just. They started the stupid war, not us, and we had a responsibility to protect our men in uniforms by finishing it any way we could. Anyone who does not think this I would NEVER want to be our president.

Don't try to rationalize with the "DEAD HEAD" & I mean dead. He'd just assume to give away this country because otherwise you're racist, biased & a whole list of phobia's if you believe otherwise. Just ask him.

I prefer to think he is simply unenlightened. I am hoping my statement above, at least, gives him pause to reconsider.

[XtremeJibber2001]

The appearance of the President of the United States, embracing a Japanese citizen hurt in a war caused by his own countrymen, on the heel of Memorial Day weekend was unbecoming.

[Bubba]

The appearance of the President of the United States, embracing a Japanese citizen hurt in a war caused by his own countrymen, on the heel of Memorial Day weekend was unbecoming.

You're absolutely right. A US President should never embrace people, whether literally as Obama did, or figuratively (as FDR and many others have done) who were hurt in a war caused by their own countrymen. Veterans who tried to kill each other should not do it either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Gettysburg_reunion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 1938 Gettysburg reunion was an encampment of American Civil War veterans on the Gettysburg Battlefield for the 75th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg. The gathering included approximately 25 veterans of the battle with a further 1,359 Federal and 486 Confederate attendees out of the 8,000 living veterans of the war. The veterans averaged 94 years of age, Transportation, quarters, and subsistence was federally funded for each veteran and their accompanying attendant. If an attendant was needed it was provided. President Franklin D. Roosevelt's July 3 reunion address preceded the unveiling of the Eternal Light Peace Memorial; a newsreel with part of the address was included in the Westinghouse Time Capsule for the 1939 New York World's Fair.

July 3, Sunday. Sunday morning memorial service in college stadium.
- Veterans shook hands across the stone wall at The Angle as during the 1913 Gettysburg reunion.
- Attendance for the Eternal Light Peace Memorial dedication was 250,000 (100,000 were "stuck on automobile-packed highways".
- As Roosevelt's 9 minute address ended at sunset, the Peace Memorial covered by a 50 foot flag[16] was unveiled by George N. Lockwood and Confederate A. G. Harris (both age 91) with 2 regular army attendants.
- Army aircraft staged a simulated air raid on Gettysburg[ at dusk, and searchlights were directed from the ground at the planes while they dropped flares.

And, if you go back to the 50th anniversary of the battle...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913_Gettysburg_reunion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 1913 Gettysburg reunion was a Gettysburg Battlefield encampment of American Civil War veterans for the Battle of Gettysburg's 50th anniversary. The June 29–July 4 gathering of 53,407 veterans (~8,750 Confederate) was the largest ever Civil War veteran reunion, and "never before in the world's history [had] so great a number of men so advanced in years been assembled under field conditions" (Chief Surgeon). All honorably discharged veterans in the Grand Army of the Republic and the United Confederate Veterans were invited, and veterans from 46 of the 48 states attended). Despite concerns "that there might be unpleasant differences, at least, between the blue and gray" (as after England's War of the Roses and the French Revolution), the peaceful reunion was repeatedly marked by events of Union–Confederate camaraderie. President Woodrow Wilson's July 4 reunion address summarized the spirit: "We have found one another again as brothers and comrades in arms, enemies no longer, generous friends rather, our battles long past, the quarrel forgotten—except that we shall not forget the splendid valor."

Wounds heal. Enemies can become allies/friends and even countrymen. Time moves on.

[XtremeJibber2001]

The appearance of the President of the United States, embracing a Japanese citizen hurt in a war caused by his own countrymen, on the heel of Memorial Day weekend was unbecoming.

You're absolutely right. A US President should never embrace people, whether literally as Obama did, or figuratively (as FDR and many others have done) who were hurt in a war caused by their own countrymen. Veterans who tried to kill each other should not do it either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Gettysburg_reunion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 1938 Gettysburg reunion was an encampment of American Civil War veterans on the Gettysburg Battlefield for the 75th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg. The gathering included approximately 25 veterans of the battle with a further 1,359 Federal and 486 Confederate attendees out of the 8,000 living veterans of the war. The veterans averaged 94 years of age, Transportation, quarters, and subsistence was federally funded for each veteran and their accompanying attendant. If an attendant was needed it was provided. President Franklin D. Roosevelt's July 3 reunion address preceded the unveiling of the Eternal Light Peace Memorial; a newsreel with part of the address was included in the Westinghouse Time Capsule for the 1939 New York World's Fair.

July 3, Sunday. Sunday morning memorial service in college stadium.
- Veterans shook hands across the stone wall at The Angle as during the 1913 Gettysburg reunion.
- Attendance for the Eternal Light Peace Memorial dedication was 250,000 (100,000 were "stuck on automobile-packed highways".
- As Roosevelt's 9 minute address ended at sunset, the Peace Memorial covered by a 50 foot flag[16] was unveiled by George N. Lockwood and Confederate A. G. Harris (both age 91) with 2 regular army attendants.
- Army aircraft staged a simulated air raid on Gettysburg[ at dusk, and searchlights were directed from the ground at the planes while they dropped flares.

And, if you go back to the 50th anniversary of the battle...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913_Gettysburg_reunion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 1913 Gettysburg reunion was a Gettysburg Battlefield encampment of American Civil War veterans for the Battle of Gettysburg's 50th anniversary. The June 29–July 4 gathering of 53,407 veterans (~8,750 Confederate) was the largest ever Civil War veteran reunion, and "never before in the world's history [had] so great a number of men so advanced in years been assembled under field conditions" (Chief Surgeon). All honorably discharged veterans in the Grand Army of the Republic and the United Confederate Veterans were invited, and veterans from 46 of the 48 states attended). Despite concerns "that there might be unpleasant differences, at least, between the blue and gray" (as after England's War of the Roses and the French Revolution), the peaceful reunion was repeatedly marked by events of Union–Confederate camaraderie. President Woodrow Wilson's July 4 reunion address summarized the spirit: "We have found one another again as brothers and comrades in arms, enemies no longer, generous friends rather, our battles long past, the quarrel forgotten—except that we shall not forget the splendid valor."

Wounds heal. Enemies can become allies/friends and even countrymen. Time moves on.

You are purposely taking my words out of context to fit your argument. POTUS's appearance was unbecoming.