Obliterating History

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deadheadskier
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by deadheadskier »

Mister Moose wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:
Mister Moose wrote:
The odds of Germany erecting a monument to Hitler is about the same as you analyzing a complete thought, rather than dissecting and misconstruing parts of it.
lol

yep, you're never guilty of that!! :roll:

I agreed with the rest of your post. The part I quoted didn't relate well with the statue in question and is why I addressed that one point.
Mister Moose wrote: Monuments almost always depict something positive, heroic or uplifting.
Pretty sure remembering the fallen would fit into the heroic category. But that wasn't even the point. The discussion you reference was about Marie's comments on monuments to slavery and the lack thereof in certain areas, and how that affects our history. You went off on a tangent about the Charlottesville statue, and how it was depicting some kind Hitler parallel, which whether you take the statue to be heroic or a message on the mistakes of the war still makes no sense to compare it to Hitler whichever way you look at it.
The specific point I was referencing was your comment, "people of the day." In the context of the Charlottesville monument, that doesn't work. It went up 60 years after the fact. Was Robert E Lee park dedicated towards the heroic side of him or a reminder of an evil time?

What about the statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest that went up in Memphis in 1905? Was it about heroism or him being a general who oversaw the massacre of black Union soldiers and went on to be a KKK leader after the Civil War?

But, the reality is that most of these monuments and dedications of schools, parks etc. concerning Civil War leaders of the South went up decades after the war had ended; in some cases more than 100 years after the fact.

The part I do agree with you on is the towns having the right to put up or take down statues as they choose, not out of state vandals stepping in. And if town decides it wants to remove a statue, having armed men showing up with torches and screaming anti semitic phrases kind of puts into question the reason why that group wants to keep the statue.

I think this article points out well, why there is a movement to remove some of these monuments.

https://www.splcenter.org/20160421/whos ... onfederacy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this image is a good visual of the history of when these monuments went up
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freeski
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by freeski »

Bubba wrote:
biged wrote:Does this mean I wont be called a yankee next time I go down south?
A yankee you will be and, if you ever decide to move there permanently, you will be a "damn yankee".
That's regionalist. :shock:
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freeski
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by freeski »

Now the talking point is well the statues weren't put up right after the civil war... I don't understand this argument. Wasn't there work to be done rebuilding cities and such? We just put up a WWII monument in DC a couple of years ago? Does that make it less meaningful, or more because it shows our feelings for those that died have stood the test of time?
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Atomic1
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by Atomic1 »

So in the line of thinking that " it was wrong so tear it down" , Democrats were the largest group of slave owners and traders in the south and were led by the likes of Sen. Byrd who was a leader in the KKK and he was also good friends with Hillary Clinton ! What should be done ? You can't have it both ways ! Or is this whole move to obliterate history just more liberal hypocrisy?
MarieM
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by MarieM »

Atomic1 wrote:So in the line of thinking that " it was wrong so tear it down" , Democrats were the largest group of slave owners and traders in the south and were led by the likes of Sen. Byrd who was a leader in the KKK and he was also good friends with Hillary Clinton ! What should be done ? You can't have it both ways ! Or is this whole move to obliterate history just more liberal hypocrisy?
Do you have a library card?


It’s also true that Robert Byrd was a member of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1940s and helped establish the hate group’s chapter in Sophia, West Virginia. However, in 1952 Byrd avowed that “After about a year, I became disinterested [in the KKK], quit paying my dues, and dropped my membership in the organization,” and throughout his long political career (he served for 57 years in the United States Congress) he repeatedly apologized for his involvement with the KKK:

“I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times … and I don’t mind apologizing over and over again. I can’t erase what happened.”
In 2010, even the NAACP released a statement honoring Senator Byrd and mourning his passing:

The NAACP is saddened by the passing of United States Senator Robert Byrd. Byrd, the longest serving member of congress was first elected to the U.S. House from [West Virginia] in 1952 and was elected Senator in 1958. Byrd passed away this morning at the age of 92.

“Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation,” stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. “Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and many other pieces of seminal legislation that advanced the civil rights and liberties of our country.

“Senator Byrd came to consistently support the NAACP civil rights agenda, doing well on the NAACP Annual Civil Rights Report Card. He stood with us on many issues of crucial importance to our members from the reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act, the historic health care legislation of 2010 and his support for the Hate Crimes Prevention legislation,” stated Hilary O. Shelton, Director of the NAACP Washington Bureau and Senior Vice President for Advocacy and Policy. “Senator Byrd was a master of the Senate Rules, and helped strategize passage of legislation that helped millions of Americans. He will be sorely missed.”
Although this image was used to criticize the media for ignoring Hillary Clinton’s connection to former KKK member Robert Byrd while simultaneously playing up Donald Trump’s comments regarding former Klan member David Duke, several factors made the latter much more newsworthy in early 2016

First of all, Trump declined to condemn Duke and the Ku Klux Klan in February 2016, making the story current and newsworthy, whilephotograph of Hillary Clinton was taken more than a decade ago. The lack of current coverage isn’t because the print media are ignoring the association, but because the photograph is a several-year-old story.

Second, while David Duke is no longer a member of the Ku Klux Klan, he is still an active member of another white supremacist organization, NAAWP: the National Association for the Advancement of White People. Duke, a prominent Holocaust denier (although he describes himself as a “Holocaust exposer“), also has a more-than-passing interest in politics: the former member of the Louisiana House of Representatives has run for the U.S. Senate, governor of Louisiana, and President of the United States. Duke has spent his life founding and supporting various white nationalist and white supremacist groups, while Byrd, by contrast, spent the majority of his life publicly disavowing and repeatedly apologizing for hisearly KKK affiliation.
Atomic1
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by Atomic1 »

Liberal hypocrisy, just like I thought. Remember George Washington owned slaves , so the dollar bill and Quarters are also offensive. Next they'll be going after Catholics who have statues of the Virgin Mary on their lawns .
deadheadskier
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by deadheadskier »

Bad comparison. Washington fought for bringing this country together, where as Lee fought to tear this country apart. Washington also stipulated in his will to have his slaves set free at the time of his death, which Martha delivered on that promise.
MarieM
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by MarieM »

Atomic1 wrote:Liberal hypocrisy, just like I thought. Remember George Washington owned slaves , so the dollar bill and Quarters are also offensive. Next they'll be going after Catholics who have statues of the Virgin Mary on their lawns .

I ask again...do you have a library card? You know that in the past, the KKK has burned crosses on the lawn of Catholics, right?
SnoBrdr
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by SnoBrdr »

deadheadskier wrote:Bad comparison. Washington fought for bringing this country together, where as Lee fought to tear this country apart. Washington also stipulated in his will to have his slaves set free at the time of his death, which Martha delivered on that promise.
So as long as the slaves were useful to him, he kept them.
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madhatter
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by madhatter »

deadheadskier wrote:Bad comparison. Washington fought for bringing this country together, where as Lee fought to tear this country apart. Washington also stipulated in his will to have his slaves set free at the time of his death, which Martha delivered on that promise.
before you talk, you should read a book...
Robert E Lee was married to George Washington's granddaughter. He worked with Grant during the Mexican-American war and became a decorated war hero defending this country He believed slavery was a great evil and his wife broke the law by teaching slaves to read and write. After the civil war he worked with Andrew Johnson's program of reconstruction. He became very popular with the northern states and the Barracks at West Point were named in his honor in 1962. He was a great man who served this country his entire life in some form or other. His memorial is now being called a blight. No American military veteran should be treated as such. People keep yelling, "You can't change history." Sadly you can. This is no better than book burnings. ISIS tried rewriting history by destroying historical artifacts. Is that really who we want to emulate?
As they tear down this "blight" keep these few historical facts in your mind. No military veteran and highly decorated war hero should ever be treated as such. This is not Iraq and that is not a statue of Sadam.

IN ADDITION:: Lee was also very torn about the prospect of the South leaving the Union. His wifes grandfather George Washington was a huge influence on him. He believed that ultimately, states rights trumped the federal government and chose to lead the Southern army. His estate, Arlington, near Washington DC was his home and while away fighting the war, the federal government demanded that Lee himself pay his taxes in person. He sent his wife but the money was not accepted from a woman. When he could not pay the taxes, the government began burying dead Union soldiers on his land. The government is still burying people there today. It is now called Arlington National Cemetery. DO THEY WANT TO TEAR THAT UP ALSO ??
but no, you chose to crib the chicago tribune...SHEEP boy...
At the most basic level, the difference between George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, on the one hand, and Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, on the other, comes down to this: The former helped created the United States of America; the latter fought against it. It's as simple as that. And it doesn't take a lot of knowledge of history - which the president plainly does not possess - to grasp that basic distinction.
meanwhile back in the real world:

http://theblacksphere.net/2017/08/list- ... ist-bigot/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A List of Times Donald Trump was a “Racist Bigot.”
“Trumps rhetoric is causing division in America!”
That’s the headline in most Leftist’ circles and media outlets as of late.

In the after math of the riots that’s happened over the weekend in Charlottesville, Leftist’ have decided to change the narrative back to racism. Shocker!

After all, it’s completely logical to blame one man exclusively for the hate and division that has been brewing in our nation for 8 years, right?

So we decided to take a look back at the times black leaders praised the racist Donald Trump. And his charitable deeds done for minorities that absolutely prove his bigotry.

Champion of minority empowerment.
Or at least Trump used to be before he ran and won as a Republican candidate.



Back in the 80’s and 90’s Trump did a lot of business with popular black leaders like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Don King.

King and Trump went into business together promoting Trump’s many business ventures in Atlantic City. Then, King introduced Sharpton to Trump knowing that with Trump’s business smarts he could help Sharpton’s humanitarian efforts.

“The relationship worked,” King says, “because Sharpton and Trump shared core values, among them commitment to the rights of women and minorities. “

Then, In 1986 Trump was awarded the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.



The award represents:

“Individuals who have made it their mission to share with those less fortunate their wealth of knowledge, indomitable courage, boundless compassion, unique talents and selfless generosity; all while maintaining the traditions of their ethnic heritage as they uphold the ideals and spirit of America.”

Donald Trump was one out of 80 chosen to receive this award and other recipients included Rosa Parks and Muhammed Ali.

Additionally, in both 1998 and 1999 Trump was Jesse Jackson’s guest of honor at the annual Wall Street Conference hosted by the Rainbow PUSH Coalition, Jackson’ DC-based “multiracial, multi-issue, progressive, international membership organization fighting for social change.”

“We need your building skills, your gusto,” Jackson told the Donlestate mogul before stating Trump is a model for “people on Wall Street to represent diversity.”


Why do all of sudden these black leaders change their tune? Have they forgotten the time, effort, and financial support that Trump generously donated to their organizations and humanitarian efforts?

Trump’s caring nature for those in need doesn’t stop there.
Remember when racist Donald Trump took care of Jennifer Hudson when she went through her horrific family tragedy?

Back in 2008 Jennifer Hudson’s mom and brother were found murdered and her nephew missing.

Hudson and other family members took refuge at the Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago were Trump picked up their tab and took care of them the whole time.

“They are safe,” Trump told People “She’s a great girl and we’re protecting them well.”

Or what about the homeless black woman found living in Trump Tower illegally? When she was discovered police were called and Donald Trump.

Trump allowed this woman to stay at Trump Tower for 8 years. Moreover, he provided three meals a day to her, and flowers were sent to her residence once a week.

She had this to say about her stay:

“Donald Trump is not a bad guy at all. If it wasn’t for him, I’d be dead or in the street.”
“I asked him how am I going to pay him back for all this, and he told me I can pay him back when I get it… which is never.”
“Donald Trump is a wonderful, wonderful man,” the woman said.

It is quite clear Donald Trump has always had a heart for the less fortunate and anyone who tells you otherwise is an ignorant fool.

His many selfless deeds were done long before his run for the presidency and now that he is president, we will see much more to come.
but hysterical sycophants don;t care about reality , they have their narrative and by golly they're gonna overturn that election one way or another...

Image

as we can all see that rhetoric is paying great dividends...

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/34 ... nc-in-july" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Republican National Committee (RNC) expanded its massive fundraising lead over the Democratic National Committee (DNC) in July as the Democrats posted their worst July haul in a decade.

The DNC raised just $3.8 million in July, compared to the $10.2 million raised by the RNC in the same month. While the GOP has no debt, the DNC added slightly to its debt in July, which now sits at $3.4 million.

The Democrats haven't raised that little money in a July since 2007, when the party raised $3.4 million.

The Hill obtained the RNC's fundraising numbers ahead of the party's official filing with the Federal Election Commission, while the DNC posted its figures on Friday.

The vast fundraising gap gels with recent trends — the GOP has substantially out-fundraised its rivals since the start of 2017.

The RNC raised $86.5 million through the first seven months of the year, while the DNC raised about $42 million. The GOP also has a huge advantage in cash on hand — $47.1 million to $6.9 million.
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
SnoBrdr
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by SnoBrdr »

Due to Martin Luther King Jr's strong stance against gays and homosexuality, we are asking for the removal of all statues and bust that reflect his image. He signifies a time when people were segregated because of their sexual preference. We must remove the stigmatize that homosexuality is wrong.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... s-and-bust

Guess it works both ways.
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Guy in Shorts
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by Guy in Shorts »

Yesterday when I took a right turn onto US Rte 1 - labeled the “Dixie Highway” I asked our Florida based friends why such racist names remain in use. All they need to do is retire the word Dixie and replace it with Trump. Trump Highway, Trump Cups and that used to be popular country group The Trump Chicks.
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daytripper
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by daytripper »

Now in NYC there is a motion to remove a statue of Christopher Columbus that's been there since the late 1800's. Where does it end? What do we rename Columbus circle? Next will be Washington square Park.
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by Mister Moose »

SnoBrdr wrote:Due to Martin Luther King Jr's strong stance against gays and homosexuality, we are asking for the removal of all statues and bust that reflect his image. He signifies a time when people were segregated because of their sexual preference. We must remove the stigmatize that homosexuality is wrong.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... s-and-bust

Guess it works both ways.
Uh, that's different because (cough cough) because Jefferson owned slaves, and you know slaves are um, um, I mean whereas homosexuals are much more um er err, because Martin Luther King was significant in shaping the country where as Jefferson , um owned slaves, and Dr King didn't own any homosexuals, ... um... what I meant to say was in his time Dr King was um er... err, thank you for that question.
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freeski
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Re: Obliterating History

Post by freeski »

I didn't know that about MLK.
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