State of The Union

[XtremeJibber2001]

By 420 thing, I take it you mean Mary Jane? So, here is a few senerios.

1st, Ted Kennedy gets taxes passed on Cigarettes to help the education systems.

2nd, congress and local authorities make it near impossible to smoke, reducing the revenues generated for education, but already spent.

3rd, grass becomes legal and is taxed for education or what ever.

4th, due to smoking and other side affects (work hazards etc.) limits are put on it like alcohol, and revnue drops forcing other taxes to be raised to cover spending already in the budget.

Love the vicious cycle !

Thousand of people freed from prisons - all the money save goes into shoring up Social Security.. :)

See....it would work....probably won't happen ne time soon though.

Oh well....I've thought about quitting ne way

[Bubba]

I can't believe I just read this whole thread. Some observations...

JibberJabber appears to me to be a product of watching things like Hannity & Combs and other so-called discussion programs (where people state nothing more than their extreme party lines) rather than watching Meet the Press where questions get asked and people give answers. And, while they may answer with their party line, Russert also probes a little more to get more depth or to expose some of the hypocrisy of the interviewee.

Social Security needs fixing - the debate ought to be over 1) what to we want SS to be and 2) how do we make it what we decide it should be. To the first point, do we want SS to be a guaranteed base level income out into the future or do we want it to have a lower guarantee but with personal accounts that can vary with markets and be passed along to heirs? The second point will, obviously, be driven by the first point. If we want the ironclad guarantee, how do make the system meet that test? Do we increase SS taxes by raising the maximum taxable income, change the cost of living adjustment, or take other steps to achieve the goal. What is the cost of doing that? If we want private accounts and a lower guarantee, how do we afford the transition period, how will funds be invested so as to keep risk minimal, and is the long run benefit worth the cost compared to the extra cost of the ironclad guarantee?

As to why do we need to address SS now instead of waiting, well.....we should've addressed it ten years ago and the cost would be lower. The longer we wait, the bigger the problem and the higher the cost. Actuarial tables being what they are, we have a problem and it's only going to get worse if we don't deal with it.

It seems to me that whether you agree or disagree with the various ideas put forward in the SOU Address, the Republican Party has, over the past ten years or more, become the party of ideas and the Democrats are the ones standing in the doorway and blocking the halls while the time are changing. The Dems are suffering from sclerosis of the brain and doing nothing more than trying to defend everything that's been done since FDR, even though a lot has changed in the intervening years. The political middle has moved right since the 1960 but the Dems seem to be run by people whose last new idea was in 1975. And, when they have an idea, it seems to be more government rather than less - which is where people want to go right now. One only has to look at their last big new idea - health care reform (aka Hillary Care) - to understand the problem they have. The Dems today seem like the Republicans of the 30s and the 60s - stuck in the past and unable to adapt to changing times and new ways of thinking. This is not to say that the Republican ideas are right or wrong, just that they're coming forward with ideas. All the Dems seem to be doing is playing defense. They're putting up the Maginot Line while the Republicans are using the Blitzkrieg - they're fighting the last war more often than not.

Democrats and Republicans are 1) good people 2) bad people 3) truth tellers 4) lying SOBs and 5) Americans. Stop yelling at each other and start listening to each other - we're all in this together.

[XtremeJibber2001]

I can't believe I just read this whole thread. Some observations...

JibberJabber appears to me to be a product of watching things like Hannity & Combs and other so-called discussion programs (where people state nothing more than their extreme party lines) rather than watching Meet the Press where questions get asked and people give answers. And, while they may answer with their party line, Russert also probes a little more to get more depth or to expose some of the hypocrisy of the interviewee.

Well...for the most part your right. I really don't have a lot of time to watch TV or read the newspaper.

I normally do the following day-to-day:
1.) Watch the news (ABC Philly) for 10 mins in the morning while eating breakfast
2.) Michael Smerconish in the morning on the way to the train station (15 minutes)
3.) Read the Philly Metro (Free paper)...which I can normally finish between riding to and from philly.
4.) Throughout the day between classes I check cnn.com to see if there is any breaking news happening...(normally 5 minutes)
5.) On the way home from the train station I normally listen to Rush Limbaugh or Hannity depending what time it is. (normally 15 minutes)
6.) I check cnn.com and watch fox news for about 30 minutes when I get home from school...again for breaking news...or to check on a few stocks and the basic news from the day
7.) On my way to work (10 minutes) I listen to Hannity

I really don't know where to fit more "quality" news into here.

Obviously Bubba, you have a plethora of knowledge compared to I. Perhaps by the time I'm older I'll have the same wealth of knowledge.

E

[DMC]

Obviously Bubba, you have a plethora of knowledge compared to I. Perhaps by the time I'm older I'll have the same wealth of knowledge.

E

I could think of worse things to aspire to... Like listening to too much Hannity or Rush... ;)

Bubba has presented some "down to earth" concepts to me that actually changed my opinions about things...

I guess you'd call that a "flip flop"...

[XtremeJibber2001]

Obviously Bubba, you have a plethora of knowledge compared to I. Perhaps by the time I'm older I'll have the same wealth of knowledge.

E

I could think of worse things to aspire to... Like listening to too much Hannity or Rush... ;)

Bubba has presented some "down to earth" concepts to me that actually changed my opinions about things...

I guess you'd call that a "flip flop"...

Bubba is a very knowledgable man.

I'd like to get the chance to read/watch some better news sources but I really haven't had the time. However, normally Smerconish is realistic for the most part.

E

[Bubba]

I can't believe I just read this whole thread. Some observations...

JibberJabber appears to me to be a product of watching things like Hannity & Combs and other so-called discussion programs (where people state nothing more than their extreme party lines) rather than watching Meet the Press where questions get asked and people give answers. And, while they may answer with their party line, Russert also probes a little more to get more depth or to expose some of the hypocrisy of the interviewee.

Well...for the most part your right. I really don't have a lot of time to watch TV or read the newspaper.

I normally do the following day-to-day:
1.) Watch the news (ABC Philly) for 10 mins in the morning while eating breakfast
2.) Michael Smerconish in the morning on the way to the train station (15 minutes)
3.) Read the Philly Metro (Free paper)...which I can normally finish between riding to and from philly.
4.) Throughout the day between classes I check cnn.com to see if there is any breaking news happening...(normally 5 minutes)
5.) On the way home from the train station I normally listen to Rush Limbaugh or Hannity depending what time it is. (normally 15 minutes)
6.) I check cnn.com and watch fox news for about 30 minutes when I get home from school...again for breaking news...or to check on a few stocks and the basic news from the day
7.) On my way to work (10 minutes) I listen to Hannity

I really don't know where to fit more "quality" news into here.

Obviously Bubba, you have a plethora of knowledge compared to I. Perhaps by the time I'm older I'll have the same wealth of knowledge.

E

I see your problem right away. It's not that you don't have time (and, understandably, you don't given that schedule) it's what you choose to listen to for news sources. Try listening or watching something other than Fox, Hannity, or other sources that do nothing but reinforce your thinking. Challenge yourself to listen to other points of view. Turn on Meet the Press on Sunday mornings (or the rerun on Sunday nights) or read the New York Times editorial page. Put yourself on the other side of the argument and look at things from the other point of view. Hannity is not news - Hannity is opinion. The NY Times editorial page is not news - it is opinion. Get different opinions and understand where others are coming from. It'll help you in your political thinking, and it will help you in real life.

[XtremeJibber2001]

I can't believe I just read this whole thread. Some observations...

JibberJabber appears to me to be a product of watching things like Hannity & Combs and other so-called discussion programs (where people state nothing more than their extreme party lines) rather than watching Meet the Press where questions get asked and people give answers. And, while they may answer with their party line, Russert also probes a little more to get more depth or to expose some of the hypocrisy of the interviewee.

Well...for the most part your right. I really don't have a lot of time to watch TV or read the newspaper.

I normally do the following day-to-day:
1.) Watch the news (ABC Philly) for 10 mins in the morning while eating breakfast
2.) Michael Smerconish in the morning on the way to the train station (15 minutes)
3.) Read the Philly Metro (Free paper)...which I can normally finish between riding to and from philly.
4.) Throughout the day between classes I check cnn.com to see if there is any breaking news happening...(normally 5 minutes)
5.) On the way home from the train station I normally listen to Rush Limbaugh or Hannity depending what time it is. (normally 15 minutes)
6.) I check cnn.com and watch fox news for about 30 minutes when I get home from school...again for breaking news...or to check on a few stocks and the basic news from the day
7.) On my way to work (10 minutes) I listen to Hannity

I really don't know where to fit more "quality" news into here.

Obviously Bubba, you have a plethora of knowledge compared to I. Perhaps by the time I'm older I'll have the same wealth of knowledge.

E

I see your problem right away. It's not that you don't have time (and, understandably, you don't given that schedule) it's what you choose to listen to for news sources. Try listening or watching something other than Fox, Hannity, or other sources that do nothing but reinforce your thinking. Challenge yourself to listen to other points of view. Turn on Meet the Press on Sunday mornings (or the rerun on Sunday nights) or read the New York Times editorial page. Put yourself on the other side of the argument and look at things from the other point of view. Hannity is not news - Hannity is opinion. The NY Times editorial page is not news - it is opinion. Get different opinions and understand where others are coming from. It'll help you in your political thinking, and it will help you in real life.

Well I do read the editorials in the local newspaper in philly (the metro) and my local newspaper (i go to school in philly which obviously is primarily democrat)

My views are probably more "all over the board" then I think. I'll see what I can do. Most times I do find common ground on views...other times I am not old/wise enough to know about past history and what that may mean for the future.

Like I've said in the past however....I enjoy talking in this forum because there are many different views.....except often I probably come off as a "hardass" than someone trying to understand the other persons views.

E

[Bubba]

.....except often I probably come off as a "hardass" than someone trying to understand the other persons views.

E

Actually, you come across as ignorant of history, repeating many of the extreme arguments (and misrepresented facts) spouted by those you listen to such as Hannity and Rush. What those people give you is a point of view, but you need to listen to them critically, understanding that they're entertainers and showmen first and foremost, and they're playing to their audience. Same is true of James Carville and Paul Begala on CNN's political program, Crossfire, another dumbed down argument show. Joe Scarborough on MSNBC is famous for throwing out strawman arguments that nobody is making on the other side, then arguing against them as if that's what the other side is saying. IMO, however, Chris Matthews does a reasonable job of questioning his guests and asking hard questions, regardless of whether the guest is Dem or Rep, left or right.

[DMC]

.....except often I probably come off as a "hardass" than someone trying to understand the other persons views.

E

Actually, you come across as ignorant of history, repeating many of the extreme arguments (and misrepresented facts) spouted by those you listen to such as Hannity and Rush. What those people give you is a point of view, but you need to listen to them critically, understanding that they're entertainers and showmen first and foremost, and they're playing to their audience. Same is true of James Carville and Paul Begala on CNN's political program, Crossfire, another dumbed down argument show. Joe Scarborough on MSNBC is famous for throwing out strawman arguments that nobody is making on the other side, then arguing against them as if that's what the other side is saying. IMO, however, Chris Matthews does a reasonable job of questioning his guests and asking hard questions, regardless of whether the guest is Dem or Rep, left or right.

I listen to Hannity and O'Riely... I also listen to Air America and NPR..
I like to hear what everyone is thinking... Find it interesting...

[BigKahuna13]

I can't believe I just read this whole thread. Some observations...

JibberJabber appears to me to be a product of watching things like Hannity & Combs and other so-called discussion programs (where people state nothing more than their extreme party lines) rather than watching Meet the Press where questions get asked and people give answers. And, while they may answer with their party line, Russert also probes a little more to get more depth or to expose some of the hypocrisy of the interviewee.

Well...for the most part your right. I really don't have a lot of time to watch TV or read the newspaper.

I normally do the following day-to-day:
1.) Watch the news (ABC Philly) for 10 mins in the morning while eating breakfast
2.) Michael Smerconish in the morning on the way to the train station (15 minutes)
3.) Read the Philly Metro (Free paper)...which I can normally finish between riding to and from philly.
4.) Throughout the day between classes I check cnn.com to see if there is any breaking news happening...(normally 5 minutes)
5.) On the way home from the train station I normally listen to Rush Limbaugh or Hannity depending what time it is. (normally 15 minutes)
6.) I check cnn.com and watch fox news for about 30 minutes when I get home from school...again for breaking news...or to check on a few stocks and the basic news from the day
7.) On my way to work (10 minutes) I listen to Hannity

I really don't know where to fit more "quality" news into here.

Obviously Bubba, you have a plethora of knowledge compared to I. Perhaps by the time I'm older I'll have the same wealth of knowledge.

E

I see your problem right away. It's not that you don't have time (and, understandably, you don't given that schedule) it's what you choose to listen to for news sources. Try listening or watching something other than Fox, Hannity, or other sources that do nothing but reinforce your thinking. Challenge yourself to listen to other points of view. Turn on Meet the Press on Sunday mornings (or the rerun on Sunday nights) or read the New York Times editorial page. Put yourself on the other side of the argument and look at things from the other point of view. Hannity is not news - Hannity is opinion. The NY Times editorial page is not news - it is opinion. Get different opinions and understand where others are coming from. It'll help you in your political thinking, and it will help you in real life.

Well I do read the editorials in the local newspaper in philly (the metro) and my local newspaper (i go to school in philly which obviously is primarily democrat)

My views are probably more "all over the board" then I think. I'll see what I can do. Most times I do find common ground on views...other times I am not old/wise enough to know about past history and what that may mean for the future.

Like I've said in the past however....I enjoy talking in this forum because there are many different views.....except often I probably come off as a "hardass" than someone trying to understand the other persons views.

E

And while we're at it many big name foreign papers publish on the web and lots of those have English language versions if you can't read them in the original. As long as you mind the usual caveats about any bit of news, it's very informative reading.

[yeti]

Seems to me they could leave things the way they are with a few minor changes and things would be OK - or atleast the 'crash' would be pushed so far into the future that it truely would be our great grand childrens problem. (Fact is that in 2047 there will be no crash at all they just won't be able to pay full promised benefits).

Simply cut future benefits now by 5% for anyone under 45. 2% over 45 1% over 55, 0 over 60. Increase person SS payroll deductions by .5% of everyones paycheck. Increase the age of retirement by 6 months.

Not popular steps, but it would do the trick, and fairly painlessly.

I have no faith that SS will be there for me. I would like to opt out entirely and get my money back (they can keep the interest it has earned). This will never happen however.

Since this 'crisis" will not effect Bush (he will be dead when it arrives) I wonder what his true motivation is. I doubt the "positive legacy" angle - I think he is just trying to line someone's pocket.

[Cityskier]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... ANAEL1.DTL

A different angle for you XJ.

[XtremeJibber2001]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... ANAEL1.DTL

A different angle for you XJ.

Well I read the article. There are some interesting points. But there were a good amount of assumptions but that's seen in most articles.

One thing to note, I did not take into consideration SS for disabled children that they would receive during there whole life....however, I suspect that when Bush says privatize SS he means only in regards to retirement?

Another thing I would like to point out is there is a lot of "they, them, their" throughout this article....refering to "they, them, their" as the Bush administration. I do not agree with that. I think it was the mismanagement of SS across the board from the two Bushs/Clinton and others. I think the gov't is bad with managing money...especially our money whomever it is. Also....this article acts like the Bush administration is just doing this to "cover up money" when Clinton proposed almost the exaclty same thing?

I do agree with Bubba....I would opt-out if I had the chance. Bubba does have a decent solution...but what would happen to the money I am giving for SS now? I am presumably paying for SS now w/out a 5% decrease...that's somewhat of an issue to me.

This article also makes assumptions regarding "personal accounts". While these assumptions may happen I think it's pessimistic to say "...while yielding minimal returns in their "personal accounts." This is a huge assumption....I highly doubt that the returns would be minimal....but that really depends on the individual. Earlier in the thread I posted a link about a few workers that opt-out of SS...seemed to work well for them.

I guess if I had my choice I would do away with SS. But that can't "just happen" we would have to slowly progress to that point. Lets face it though...many American's can't manage their own money, let alone plan for their retirement. Perhaps more classes should be given in middle/highschool to teach kids about budgeting. Its really horrible what kids spend money of these days.

E