Iran - 'next steps'

ski_adk · Post by **ski_adk** » Feb 11th, '05, 21:56

Here are a few links for you regarding the East Timor thing. Sorry to sound so brunt before too, but for every nightly news genocide there are others going on that just aren't covered. Pol Pot was a bad mo-fo, pure evil, but for every one of him there are three others we don't go after. We only seem to help the causes that are most beneficial to us. Remember those people Saddam gassed? Who gave it to him? Just like we supplied his "genocide," we supplied one Indonesia in their assualt in East Timor. Here's a few links that explain it most clearly:

http://www.change-links.org/EastTimor.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger
In December 1975, Kissinger and Ford met with President Suharto of Indonesia; on that occasion they gave their approval for his invasion of East Timor, which led to the massacre of 200,000 Timorese.

http://spj.jrn.columbia.edu/oldsite/chomsky.htm

XtremeJibber2001 · Post by **XtremeJibber2001** » Feb 12th, '05, 17:38

DMC wrote:
BigKahuna13 wrote:
DMC wrote:
SkiDork wrote:I'm just thinking out loud here... - It would be really tough for us to go to another front. I've gotta think our military is stretched pretty thin right now.
We'll probably bomb the living sht out of them....
Depends on what you want to do. If you want to knock out some nuclear weapons manufacturing site, bombing would probably work fine, assuming you can find the site.

If on the other hand you want to do anything more ambitious than that, you're gonna need people on the ground, which we probably can't do right now given our other committments.

Remember GW1. We essentially bombed Iraq and her military back to the stone age and we still needed to send ground forces in -- even if it was just for a hundred hours.
True BUT arent the Iranians on the cusp of being moderate...? Even though there's a theocracy there's a movement to modernize and be democratic.. Wonder if we took out the government if the masses would step up a little faster then the Iraqis...
Thought I read something about that...

You're correct. There is a movement to modernize in Iran. I don't think the US intends on invading Iran...probably like you said before, just bombing it. I also do not think we should invade Iran but I am not against bombing Iran...but it's way too early to do that now.

E

BigKahuna13 · Post by **BigKahuna13** » Feb 13th, '05, 11:41

ski_adk wrote:Here are a few links for you regarding the East Timor thing. Sorry to sound so brunt before too, but for every nightly news genocide there are others going on that just aren't covered. Pol Pot was a bad mo-fo, pure evil, but for every one of him there are three others we don't go after. We only seem to help the causes that are most beneficial to us. Remember those people Saddam gassed? Who gave it to him? Just like we supplied his "genocide," we supplied one Indonesia in their assualt in East Timor. Here's a few links that explain it most clearly:

http://www.change-links.org/EastTimor.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger
In December 1975, Kissinger and Ford met with President Suharto of Indonesia; on that occasion they gave their approval for his invasion of East Timor, which led to the massacre of 200,000 Timorese.

http://spj.jrn.columbia.edu/oldsite/chomsky.htm

Thanks for the links. Need to do more reading on this topic, though I will point out that, from the limited reading I did do this morning, the view that we're complicit in the East Timor massacres is, to say the least, controversial.

Kissenger, for his part, states that he didn't "approve" the invasion. He claims that he merely acknowledged that when they met the Suharto had already decided to invade and Kissenger merely asked that he get it over with as quickly as possible.

Whether or not we're culpable because weapons we supplied were used really depends, I suppose, on how much we knew about their intentions
at the time. I'm not going assume US liability simply because the bad guys used weapons we supplied them with.

ski_adk · Post by **ski_adk** » Feb 14th, '05, 15:10

You're absolutely right Kahuna that the Timor deal is very controversial. There's limited mass media coverage on it and most news sources on the issue are sketchy at best.

However, you said something that's very disconcerting to me.

I'm not going assume US liability simply because the bad guys used weapons we supplied them with.

I don't blame gun/rifle manufacturers for the murders that their products are involved with, but mostly because domestic gun purchases typically aren't for the intent of murder.

When it comes to military weaponry however, I can't help but feel a greater burden of guilt when that equipment is used for immoral actions. The greatest parallel I can see is Saddam's gassing of his own people. We supplied him, he misused them and we washed our hands of it as if we had no part in it. Is there no correlation between the bad guys doing evil and the good guys who enabled them?

XtremeJibber2001 · Post by **XtremeJibber2001** » Feb 14th, '05, 18:16

ski_adk wrote: When it comes to military weaponry however, I can't help but feel a greater burden of guilt when that equipment is used for immoral actions. The greatest parallel I can see is Saddam's gassing of his own people. We supplied him, he misused them and we washed our hands of it as if we had no part in it. Is there no correlation between the bad guys doing evil and the good guys who enabled them?

I don't think there is a correlation between them. I don't hold the US accountable for the weapons al qaeda had.

E

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Feb 14th, '05, 18:24

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
ski_adk wrote: When it comes to military weaponry however, I can't help but feel a greater burden of guilt when that equipment is used for immoral actions. The greatest parallel I can see is Saddam's gassing of his own people. We supplied him, he misused them and we washed our hands of it as if we had no part in it. Is there no correlation between the bad guys doing evil and the good guys who enabled them?
I don't think there is a correlation between them. I don't hold the US accountable for the weapons al qaeda had.

E

Dude... Think about what you just said before I blast you ;)

(Posion gas used to kill people) <> (passenger plane used to transport people)

Cityskier · Post by **Cityskier** » Feb 14th, '05, 18:55

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:I don't think there is a correlation between them. I don't hold the US accountable for the weapons al qaeda had.E

You scare me.

How about the weapons in Iraq?

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/news11.htm

XtremeJibber2001 · Post by **XtremeJibber2001** » Feb 14th, '05, 19:17

DMC wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
ski_adk wrote: When it comes to military weaponry however, I can't help but feel a greater burden of guilt when that equipment is used for immoral actions. The greatest parallel I can see is Saddam's gassing of his own people. We supplied him, he misused them and we washed our hands of it as if we had no part in it. Is there no correlation between the bad guys doing evil and the good guys who enabled them?
I don't think there is a correlation between them. I don't hold the US accountable for the weapons al qaeda had.

E
Dude... Think about what you just said before I blast you ;)

(Posion gas used to kill people) <> (passenger plane used to transport people)

I think I typed the wrong terrorist group....I meant the Taliban...sorry.

The weapons the Taliban had mostly were from the US to help us against Russia. "I don't hold the US accountable for weapons that the Taliban had."

E

XtremeJibber2001 · Post by **XtremeJibber2001** » Feb 14th, '05, 19:22

Cityskier wrote:http://www.gulfwarvets.com/news11.htm

Does that mean that Clinton is responsible for North Korea having Nukes now because he supplied them with small nuclear reactors/nuclear coolers? I don't blame clinton for that.....just because the US gives a country materials for LEGAL use....does that make us at fault when these same countries use them illegally? I'm lost

E

P.S. I'm trying to be understanding from now on....without sounding like a badass. I actually turned off Hannity today...he went way overboard with some stuff today.

Cityskier · Post by **Cityskier** » Feb 14th, '05, 19:57

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:P.S. I'm trying to be understanding from now on....without sounding like a badass. I actually turned off Hannity today...he went way overboard with some stuff today.

LOL! I'm just having fun man. Just keep an open mind.

XtremeJibber2001 · Post by **XtremeJibber2001** » Feb 14th, '05, 21:43

Cityskier wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:P.S. I'm trying to be understanding from now on....without sounding like a badass. I actually turned off Hannity today...he went way overboard with some stuff today.

LOL! I'm just having fun man. Just keep an open mind.

Haha...i figured...just from last time u said I scare you I know you were messing.

Hannity was complaining about the jokes chris rock made.....he's a comedian of course his jokes may not be politically correct but c'mon....Rock's a comedian he's not supposed to be PC lol

Killington_Lover · Post by **Killington_Lover** » Mar 5th, '05, 23:43

Pedro wrote:Bomb bomb bomb...bomb bomb iran

Bomb bomb bomb...bomb bomb iran

I so totally agree. i am Iranian . born in tehran. and belive me those mother f*** arabs can go to hell ( i am persian not arab. my people hate them because they conqured us ..incase you didnt know)

DROP THE BOMB !

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Mar 7th, '05, 06:51

Killington_Lover wrote:
Pedro wrote:Bomb bomb bomb...bomb bomb iran

Bomb bomb bomb...bomb bomb iran

I so totally agree. i am Iranian . born in tehran. and belive me those mother f*** arabs can go to hell ( i am persian not arab. my people hate them because they conqured us ..incase you didnt know)

DROP THE BOMB !

I guess you still dont have relatives over there still...

TrailRider · Post by **TrailRider** » Mar 7th, '05, 08:35

Killington_Lover wrote: I so totally agree. i am Iranian . born in tehran. and belive me those mother f*** arabs can go to hell ( i am persian not arab. my people hate them because they conqured us ..incase you didnt know)

Do you hate Greeks too, or maybe just guys named Alexander?