DMC wrote:In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.
He refused didn't he? Sure maybe he was bluffing...but he refused to give up what he was hiding and didn't let UN inspectors to check out his alleged WMD factories to see if he was being honest when he said he had no WMDs.
DMC wrote:In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.
He refused didn't he? Sure maybe he was bluffing...but he refused to give up what he was hiding and didn't let UN inspectors to check out his alleged WMD factories to see if he was being honest when he said he had no WMDs.
What's the problem?
1500+ American dead soldiers for something that was alledged....
Thats the problem I have with it... Not saying everyone has a problem with that but I do...
"Iraq has denied having weapons of mass destruction and has offered to allow U.N. weapons inspectors to return for the first time since 1998. Deputy Prime Minister Abdul Tawab Al-Mulah Huwaish called the allegations "lies" Thursday and offered to let U.S. officials inspect plants they say are developing nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.
The White House immediately rejected the offer, saying the matter is up to the United Nations, not Iraq. "
DMC wrote:In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.
He refused didn't he? Sure maybe he was bluffing...but he refused to give up what he was hiding and didn't let UN inspectors to check out his alleged WMD factories to see if he was being honest when he said he had no WMDs.
What's the problem?
1500+ American dead soldiers for something that was alledged....
Thats the problem I have with it... Not saying everyone has a problem with that but I do...
"Iraq has denied having weapons of mass destruction and has offered to allow U.N. weapons inspectors to return for the first time since 1998. Deputy Prime Minister Abdul Tawab Al-Mulah Huwaish called the allegations "lies" Thursday and offered to let U.S. officials inspect plants they say are developing nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.
The White House immediately rejected the offer, saying the matter is up to the United Nations, not Iraq. "
Because it became a war zone...
Just as the UN reported that it was making progress with Iraqi complience - GWB and crowd decided it was time...
And told Sadam and company they had 48 hours to get out and thats when weapons inspectors left...
Those sites were in fact inspected by the U.N. How the hell does some one prove innocence/non-possession of something???
I mean...prove to me that you don't have the property that was stolen from my apartment last year. Oh...nobody found it on your premises? Well, I still believe you have it and I have some intelligence that you do. Therefore, I'm going to lay siege to your home and find it myself.
... Later that week...
Umm...well, no, I'm still looking for the stolen property. In the meantime, I'm making myself cozy here. Get back to me in a few months/years, and I'll let you know.
... one year later...
No, there definately isn't any of my property here. You must have given it to your neighbors for safe storage. Therefore, I'm demanding that the entire neighborhood come clean...and no, I'm not leaving anytime soon.
ski_adk wrote:Those sites were in fact inspected by the U.N. How the hell does some one prove innocence/non-possession of something???
I mean...prove to me that you don't have the property that was stolen from my apartment last year. Oh...nobody found it on your premises? Well, I still believe you have it and I have some intelligence that you do. Therefore, I'm going to lay siege to your home and find it myself.
... Later that week...
Umm...well, no, I'm still looking for the stolen property. In the meantime, I'm making myself cozy here. Get back to me in a few months/years, and I'll let you know.
... one year later...
No, there definately isn't any of my property here. You must have given it to your neighbors for safe storage. Therefore, I'm demanding that the entire neighborhood come clean...and no, I'm not leaving anytime soon.
Science 101
Lesson 1: The Theory
Postulate: You can prove the existence of something. You cannot prove the non-existence.
What is not possible is not to choose. ~Jean-Paul Sartre
BigKahuna13 wrote:Science 101
Lesson 1: The Theory
Postulate: You can prove the existence of something. You cannot prove the non-existence.
So instead...
Just put a cowboy hat on, stay the course and continue on as if WMDs existed at the cost of thousands of lives and billions of dollars.....
BigKahuna13 wrote:Science 101
Lesson 1: The Theory
Postulate: You can prove the existence of something. You cannot prove the non-existence.
So instead...
Just put a cowboy hat on, stay the course and continue on as if WMDs existed at the cost of thousands of lives and billions of dollars.....
Going along with the Psutlate....you can prove the existence but not the non-existence.
We will NEVER know if there were WMD's ir Iraq or not. We could possibly searched every square mile of a country that is the size of California....agreed?
Has anyone seen the progress being made in the mid-east? Do you think this has anything to do with the success of the Iraq elections?
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:We will NEVER know if there were WMD's ir Iraq or not. We could possibly searched every square mile of a country that is the size of California....agreed?
No way - they don't exist... We're talking post 95 here...
They found one guy in a spiderhole and we can't find WMDs??? A ton of important Iraqis were captured and interogated and nobody gave up the goods??? Most of the chemical agents dont have a long shelf life.. Se even if they were sent to Syria or Lebenon they would be mush by now... The Iraqi's were probably doing a "make and use" thing...
Also nearly all the SCUDs were accounted for...
The trailers they found that chemical weapons were supposedly made were used to create hydrogen for balloons...
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:Has anyone seen the progress being made in the mid-east? Do you think this has anything to do with the success of the Iraq elections?
E
no... I think it's cause Arafat is out of the way...
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:We will NEVER know if there were WMD's ir Iraq or not. We could possibly searched every square mile of a country that is the size of California....agreed?
No way - they don't exist... We're talking post 95 here...
They found one guy in a spiderhole and we can't find WMDs??? A ton of important Iraqis were captured and interogated and nobody gave up the goods???
It could just be that way. We have no evidence to really support or deny that there were WMD's in Iraq. However, I do know more intelligence from other countries did support the idea that WMD's were in Iraq....it's hard for me to accept all the nations intelligence was wrong
Most of the chemical agents dont have a long shelf life.. Se even if they were sent to Syria or Lebenon they would be mush by now...
A nuke would still be usable today even if it was a year old right?
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:Has anyone seen the progress being made in the mid-east? Do you think this has anything to do with the success of the Iraq elections?
no... I think it's cause Arafat is out of the way...
Ok, just wondering. I'm not disagreeing with your statement...just being the devil's advocate here
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:It could just be that way. We have no evidence to really support or deny that there were WMD's in Iraq. However, I do know more intelligence from other countries did support the idea that WMD's were in Iraq....it's hard for me to accept all the nations intelligence was wrong
What?!?!?! Hasnt a bunch of that crap from other countries been dissproved?
So your going to take the intelegence from some other country and send our guys to fight and die in a desert???
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:It could just be that way. We have no evidence to really support or deny that there were WMD's in Iraq. However, I do know more intelligence from other countries did support the idea that WMD's were in Iraq....it's hard for me to accept all the nations intelligence was wrong
What?!?!?! Hasnt a bunch of that crap from other countries been dissproved?
So your going to take the intelegence from some other country and send our guys to fight and die in a desert???
I would need more then that...
Well...like I said I'm only being the devil's advocate here....however
The information has been disproved (to my knowledge) on the notion that since no WMDs have been found, that intelligence is incorrect.
Do I beleive intelligence from other countries...sometimes. I certainly am more apt to beleiving it when both my country and other countries come to the same sort of conclusions and hypothesis.
I thought you wanted to involve other countries in a coalition...would this only include supplying troops to Iraq or also help provide additional intellegence. (or maybe you only asked what you did to prove a point)
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:I thought you wanted to involve other countries in a coalition...would this only include supplying troops to Iraq or also help provide additional intellegence. (or maybe you only asked what you did to prove a point)
Whatever... I'm sick of this friggin war... and your twisty questions..
This war sucks.... All the lies and BS... People dying...
It's just not my thing...
If you want to know about the quality and integrity of our intelligence sources, take a look to see how many of our experts quit when Shrub started his data-mining campaign to justify this BS war. The CIA lost a substantial number of experienced and successful operatives who refused to go along with the administration's manipulations.
For those unfamiliar with the process of data-mining, it's essentially to process of going through piles and piles of information resources and selectively pulling out pieces that support your claim/hypothesis. So, in this way, it's easy to gather 100 pieces of intelligence that illustrate an immediate threat to the US. Unfortunately, the process ignores the 1000s of pieces of intelligence that refute and nullify that claim.
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:I thought you wanted to involve other countries in a coalition...would this only include supplying troops to Iraq or also help provide additional intellegence. (or maybe you only asked what you did to prove a point)
Whatever... I'm sick of this friggin war... and your twisty questions..
This war sucks.... All the lies and BS... People dying...
It's just not my thing...
I wasn't being twisty...i just wasn't sure if you were implying you didn't beleive other countries intel or not. Because I know in past discussions you wanted a coalition to fight the war...i would assume other countries would help gather intelligence of the US.
ski_adk wrote:If you want to know about the quality and integrity of our intelligence sources, take a look to see how many of our experts quit when Shrub started his data-mining campaign to justify this BS war. The CIA lost a substantial number of experienced and successful operatives who refused to go along with the administration's manipulations.
For those unfamiliar with the process of data-mining, it's essentially to process of going through piles and piles of information resources and selectively pulling out pieces that support your claim/hypothesis. So, in this way, it's easy to gather 100 pieces of intelligence that illustrate an immediate threat to the US. Unfortunately, the process ignores the 1000s of pieces of intelligence that refute and nullify that claim.
I know intelligence sources have quit...i have yet to see any link between them quitting and the war though....I am also unaware of the manipulations you speak of...?
As in all aspects of life...nothing is perfect...it's no surprise to me that our intelligence isn't always right....i'm just thankful people are looking it over. Maybe next time it will be right.
