Obama's world

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deadheadskier
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Re: Obama's world

Post by deadheadskier »

steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:You know steamboat, atomic and madhatter, there's nothing stopping you from flying over there, picking up a rifle and fighting for what you believe in. You all seem pretty eager to send our kids to war, why not join them?
Who said anything about fighting a war? The statements were about Obama policies that have made it easier for ISIS to spread. Libya was stable whether you agreed with Ghaddafi policies or not. He didn't to anything to us. Egypt was stable whether you agreed Mubark policies or not. Same thing what has he done to us. Same could be said for Assad, what has he done to us? Even Iraq was stable until Obama decided to withdraw all our troops against the advice of his military commanders. Why? We still have a large contingent of troops stationed in Germany & S. Korea after fighting wars there. And now the same thing is starting to happen in Afganistan. Do you see a pattern here?
If soldiers kept getting killed in Germany and Korea like they were in Iraq with no end in sight, how do you think things would've been handled?

Totally different scenario.

But if you think soldiers and guns on the ground is the answer, sign up. Your daughter is fighting age no? How would you feel if she said she wanted to join the service and serve in the Middle East?
madhatter
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Re: Obama's world

Post by madhatter »

deadheadskier wrote:
steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:You know steamboat, atomic and madhatter, there's nothing stopping you from flying over there, picking up a rifle and fighting for what you believe in. You all seem pretty eager to send our kids to war, why not join them?
Who said anything about fighting a war? The statements were about Obama policies that have made it easier for ISIS to spread. Libya was stable whether you agreed with Ghaddafi policies or not. He didn't to anything to us. Egypt was stable whether you agreed Mubark policies or not. Same thing what has he done to us. Same could be said for Assad, what has he done to us? Even Iraq was stable until Obama decided to withdraw all our troops against the advice of his military commanders. Why? We still have a large contingent of troops stationed in Germany & S. Korea after fighting wars there. And now the same thing is starting to happen in Afganistan. Do you see a pattern here?
If soldiers kept getting killed in Germany and Korea like they were in Iraq with no end in sight, how do you think things would've been handled?

Totally different scenario.

But if you think soldiers and guns on the ground is the answer, sign up. Your daughter is fighting age no? How would you feel if she said she wanted to join the service and serve in the Middle East?
funny you don;t see it that way when someone tells you to start a trust or a fund instead of demanding everyone else fund your fantasies...then you try to act like conservatives prefer to wage war vs fund poverty... the reality is the US needs to be in a position where it decisively ends wars not gets itself involved just enough to make it a failed quagmire... and funding poverty only leads to more poverty so that;s a futile effort as well...gotta see things as they exist not as you wish them to exist...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
madhatter
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Re: Obama's world

Post by madhatter »

deadheadskier wrote:
steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:You know steamboat, atomic and madhatter, there's nothing stopping you from flying over there, picking up a rifle and fighting for what you believe in. You all seem pretty eager to send our kids to war, why not join them?
Who said anything about fighting a war? The statements were about Obama policies that have made it easier for ISIS to spread. Libya was stable whether you agreed with Ghaddafi policies or not. He didn't to anything to us. Egypt was stable whether you agreed Mubark policies or not. Same thing what has he done to us. Same could be said for Assad, what has he done to us? Even Iraq was stable until Obama decided to withdraw all our troops against the advice of his military commanders. Why? We still have a large contingent of troops stationed in Germany & S. Korea after fighting wars there. And now the same thing is starting to happen in Afganistan. Do you see a pattern here?
If soldiers kept getting killed in Germany and Korea like they were in Iraq with no end in sight, how do you think things would've been handled? if we didn't have a formal agreement in place I'm sure it would have ended similar to hiroshima and nagasaki...particularly in the case of germany...

Totally different scenario.

But if you think soldiers and guns on the ground is the answer, sign up. Your daughter is fighting age no? How would you feel if she said she wanted to join the service and serve in the Middle East?
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Atomic1
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Re: Obama's world

Post by Atomic1 »

Nobody said anything about sending our kids to a ground war. But what our kids who have voluntarily joined the military have said is that because of all the restrictions put on them by the Obama administration , they can't pull the trigger in a drone or jet without getting the OK first and by then it's too late.
Putin is putting his people on the ground and in the air with a real plan on wiping out ISIS . That's the major difference, Putin actually has a plan on getting rid of ISIS and WANTS to get rid of ISIS where Obama does not because Obama wants ISIS to overthrow Assad . So you do the math and tell me what Obama's intentions are .
Putin reportedly told Obama that he will drive ISIS out of Syria into Iraq and America can finish them there . Putin also stated that most of these immigrants are men between 25-45 yrs. of age and they should go back home and fight for their country ! Simply put , you destroy ISIS and you end the Immigration problem . But it appears Obama likes this Immigration problem as it spreads Islam around the world.
steamboat1
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Re: Obama's world

Post by steamboat1 »

deadheadskier wrote:
steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:You know steamboat, atomic and madhatter, there's nothing stopping you from flying over there, picking up a rifle and fighting for what you believe in. You all seem pretty eager to send our kids to war, why not join them?
Who said anything about fighting a war? The statements were about Obama policies that have made it easier for ISIS to spread. Libya was stable whether you agreed with Ghaddafi policies or not. He didn't to anything to us. Egypt was stable whether you agreed Mubark policies or not. Same thing what has he done to us. Same could be said for Assad, what has he done to us? Even Iraq was stable until Obama decided to withdraw all our troops against the advice of his military commanders. Why? We still have a large contingent of troops stationed in Germany & S. Korea after fighting wars there. And now the same thing is starting to happen in Afganistan. Do you see a pattern here?
If soldiers kept getting killed in Germany and Korea like they were in Iraq with no end in sight, how do you think things would've been handled?

Totally different scenario.

But if you think soldiers and guns on the ground is the answer, sign up. Your daughter is fighting age no? How would you feel if she said she wanted to join the service and serve in the Middle East?
So all the lives lost during the war was for nothing. Great policy.
deadheadskier
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Re: Obama's world

Post by deadheadskier »

....not sure why you're bringing up funding poverty. Nothing to do with the conversation.

Good luck decively ending a war in the middle east that's been going on for hundreds of years. I'd love to hear how you think that's remotely possible with the differences between different Muslims, never mind the regional hatred of Isreal.

There's no "Hiroshima" solution in the Middle East.
deadheadskier
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Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03

Re: Obama's world

Post by deadheadskier »

steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:
steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:You know steamboat, atomic and madhatter, there's nothing stopping you from flying over there, picking up a rifle and fighting for what you believe in. You all seem pretty eager to send our kids to war, why not join them?
Who said anything about fighting a war? The statements were about Obama policies that have made it easier for ISIS to spread. Libya was stable whether you agreed with Ghaddafi policies or not. He didn't to anything to us. Egypt was stable whether you agreed Mubark policies or not. Same thing what has he done to us. Same could be said for Assad, what has he done to us? Even Iraq was stable until Obama decided to withdraw all our troops against the advice of his military commanders. Why? We still have a large contingent of troops stationed in Germany & S. Korea after fighting wars there. And now the same thing is starting to happen in Afganistan. Do you see a pattern here?
If soldiers kept getting killed in Germany and Korea like they were in Iraq with no end in sight, how do you think things would've been handled?

Totally different scenario.

But if you think soldiers and guns on the ground is the answer, sign up. Your daughter is fighting age no? How would you feel if she said she wanted to join the service and serve in the Middle East?
So all the lives lost during the war was for nothing. Great policy.
If the jackass from New Haven didn't decide he wanted to get revenge for Daddy we wouldn't be in this position.

You all go blaming Obama for his policies towards Gaddafi and Assad, yet somehow getting rid of Hussein was the right thing to do. You can't have it both ways.
madhatter
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Re: Obama's world

Post by madhatter »

deadheadskier wrote:....not sure why you're bringing up funding poverty. only in the aspect that you tell the individual to go fight the war vs the govt run and taxpayer funded constitutionally mandated military but don;t see it that way when you want to demand that taxpayers fund the absolutely not constitutionally mandated various poverty and healthcare you continually advocate for... Nothing to do with the conversation.so actually its QUITE relevant...

Good luck decively ending a war in the middle east that's been going on for hundreds of years. I'd love to hear how you think that's remotely possible with the differences between different Muslims, never mind the regional hatred of Isreal.I don;t but I also am certain that ISIS could have been and should have been decimated in its infancy...we certainly have the men and machinery to do so, what we lack is a leader...

There's no "Hiroshima" solution in the Middle East.
no that wasn't the question you asked though... you asked what would have happened in germany and korea, the difference is ISIS hasn't surrendered... YET...and had they not agreed to terms of surrender they would have met a similar fate as japan , that being the real possibility of total devastation and elimination at the hands of the US military via whatever means necessary

somehow the bold has left the building...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
steamboat1
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Re: Obama's world

Post by steamboat1 »

deadheadskier wrote:If the jackass from New Haven didn't decide he wanted to get revenge for Daddy we wouldn't be in this position.
Hate to tell you but Clinton was the first one to bomb Iraq. Know what his excuse was?
madhatter
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Re: Obama's world

Post by madhatter »

deadheadskier wrote:
steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:
steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:You know steamboat, atomic and madhatter, there's nothing stopping you from flying over there, picking up a rifle and fighting for what you believe in. You all seem pretty eager to send our kids to war, why not join them?
Who said anything about fighting a war? The statements were about Obama policies that have made it easier for ISIS to spread. Libya was stable whether you agreed with Ghaddafi policies or not. He didn't to anything to us. Egypt was stable whether you agreed Mubark policies or not. Same thing what has he done to us. Same could be said for Assad, what has he done to us? Even Iraq was stable until Obama decided to withdraw all our troops against the advice of his military commanders. Why? We still have a large contingent of troops stationed in Germany & S. Korea after fighting wars there. And now the same thing is starting to happen in Afganistan. Do you see a pattern here?
If soldiers kept getting killed in Germany and Korea like they were in Iraq with no end in sight, how do you think things would've been handled?

Totally different scenario.

But if you think soldiers and guns on the ground is the answer, sign up. Your daughter is fighting age no? How would you feel if she said she wanted to join the service and serve in the Middle East?
So all the lives lost during the war was for nothing. Great policy.
If the jackass from New Haven didn't decide he wanted to get revenge for Daddy we wouldn't be in this position.you live in hew haven? seriously there was a specific UN resolution that hussein was in violation of, the congress backed the move ( right or wrong) and we can;t go back and change that...we did however largely do what was necessary there to maintain order prior to obama's totally politically oriented strategy of failing to get a standing resolution and then using that as a means to withdraw troops after which things took a major turn for the worse due to the power vacuum created...

You all go blaming Obama for his policies towards Gaddafi and Assad, yet somehow getting rid of Hussein was the right thing to do. You can't have it both ways.
actually you most certainly can, see above....interestingly obama was adamant about maintaining military funding and backing for morsi ( F-16's)but suddenly changed his mind on that when morsi was ousted...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
deadheadskier
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Re: Obama's world

Post by deadheadskier »

So, you don't have a solution for conquering an ideology. This is not war against sovereign nations like Korea, Germany etc.

ISIS / Al Qaeda whatever the Islamic extremist flavor is of the moment is in every single country in the Middle East, all of Northern Africa, much of Southeast Asia. So, what do you recommend? Should we occupy Saudi Arabia? How about Indonesia (that worked great the last time we were in Asia)? Should we bomb Manila? There's Islamic extremists there too. Morocco? Where's the volunteer army going to come from to literally take the battle across a quarter of the globe?
Last edited by deadheadskier on Sep 29th, '15, 13:23, edited 1 time in total.
deadheadskier
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Re: Obama's world

Post by deadheadskier »

steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:If the jackass from New Haven didn't decide he wanted to get revenge for Daddy we wouldn't be in this position.
Hate to tell you but Clinton was the first one to bomb Iraq. Know what his excuse was?
Did Clinton bring a ground war into Iraq causing the deaths of thousands of Americans?

No
steamboat1
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Re: Obama's world

Post by steamboat1 »

deadheadskier wrote:
steamboat1 wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:If the jackass from New Haven didn't decide he wanted to get revenge for Daddy we wouldn't be in this position.
Hate to tell you but Clinton was the first one to bomb Iraq. Know what his excuse was?
Did Clinton bring a ground war into Iraq causing the deaths of thousands of Americans?

No
Did Clinton have a UN Resolution authorizing the use of force at the time of the bombings?

NO

Did Clinton have a coalition of 48 countries backing him at the time of the bombings?

NO

Did Clinton have approval from Congress?

NO

(much like what Obama did in Libya & continues to do)



I bet you were all for the war until you were against it.
Last edited by steamboat1 on Sep 29th, '15, 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
deadheadskier
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Re: Obama's world

Post by deadheadskier »

You know steamboat, I was for war for all of about two days. My college roommate died in the WTC and I thought about revenge. Then I came to my senses and realized it would accomplish nothing accept for the deaths of thousands. It would cause more problems because this wouldn't be a war between sovereign nations. 14 years later that remains true. We haven't accomplished anything over there and likely never will.
madhatter
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Re: Obama's world

Post by madhatter »

deadheadskier wrote:So, you don't have a solution for conquering an ideology. of course not I'm not a military adviser... This is not war against sovereign nations like Korea, Germany etc.

ISIS / Al Qaeda whatever the Islamic extremist flavor is of the moment is in every single country in the Middle East,all of Northern Africa, much of Southeast Asia. So, what do you recommend? shoulda stopped that in in its infancy instead of promoting an " arab spring"...Should we occupy Saudi Arabia? How about Indonesia (that worked great the last time we were in Asia)? Should we bomb Manila? There's Islamic extremists there too. Morocco? Where's the volunteer army going to come from to literally take the battle across a quarter of the globe?
be realistic none of what you suggest is anything anyone is even remotely contemplating...funny we can get all kinds of film and photos of ISIS but we never seem to be able to get any bullets or bombs on em... my guess is its because of a lack of effort/will/desire by our supposed commander in chief...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
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