Oregon Community College Shooting

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steamboat1
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by steamboat1 »

madhatter wrote:why do you continually feel the need to imply things that clearly aren't there...your ability to paraphrase is quite lacking... your ability to intentionally skew and misinterpret though seem quite keen...or I suppose ya could just be a dumb@ss....
I'd go with the last, kinda obvious.

Stupid old man in 3.2.1. That's all he's got plus a few other what he imagines insults.

Hard to talk logic with a dumb hot headed Irishmen.

He's always right because you're wrong.
deadheadskier
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by deadheadskier »

Thanks for still making time for me baby. I've been worried, you've been spending all your time lately trolling Magic across not one, not two, not three, but FOUR ski forums.

You share good company. The only loser I've seen do that other than you is Highwaystar.

Good luck with that champ!

Rofl
steamboat1
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by steamboat1 »

right on cue :lol:
deadheadskier
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by deadheadskier »

Don't want you to get lonely without me sweetheart.
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Mister Moose
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by Mister Moose »

I have a question. (OK, several) Why are we as a Nation, why is our President and Congress, why is much of our press so concerned with mass shootings?

By any measure, it is a small problem. Compare mass shooting deaths (dozens) to total murders (tens of thousands). The numbers are staggering. Mass shootings are horrific, but aren't all murders?

Are we numb to inner city death, but not movie theater and college campus death?
Are mass shootings viewed as "easy to fix"? Consider the latest mass shooting was with legal guns by a shooter who passed a background check.

One thing that stands out to me is the number of gang related deaths. Baltimore’s City Police Commissioner Anthony Batts says that 80 percent [of murders] are (gang) drug-related. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ities.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another stand out is in 2013, 10,076 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States. http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/i ... sheet.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prohibition was repealed because 1) black market alcohol related crime became rampant, 2) The government lost significant tax revenue, 3) The majority of the populace shifted from their support to objection. Not only did we experiment with making alcohol illegal, we changed our minds and made it legal again. It remains legal at the price of 10,000 drunk driving deaths per year, plus some large number of other alcohol related deaths: other vehicles, machinery, alcohol poisoning, etc.

If you take out gang related gun deaths, (massively drug related) firearm murder rates will likely drop to less than a quarter of alcohol related deaths.

Should the outrage and concern be focused on the greater damage occurs?
Why is there a call for trigger locks or gun biometrics, but not for alcohol interlocks in all cars?
Are there lessons from prohibition that apply to illegal drugs?
Are there lessons from prohibition that apply to gun control?
Why is the freedom to drink alcohol viewed as a more universal right than bearing arms when alcohol (and drugs) cause greater death?

The larger question: Is the fervor on mass shooting and gun control media driven vs effective solution to murder rate driven? And why?
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madhatter
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by madhatter »

Mister Moose wrote:I have a question. (OK, several) Why are we as a Nation, why is our President and Congress, why is much of our press so concerned with mass shootings?

By any measure, it is a small problem. Compare mass shooting deaths (dozens) to total murders (tens of thousands). The numbers are staggering. Mass shootings are horrific, but aren't all murders?

Are we numb to inner city death, but not movie theater and college campus death?
Are mass shootings viewed as "easy to fix"? Consider the latest mass shooting was with legal guns by a shooter who passed a background check.

One thing that stands out to me is the number of gang related deaths. Baltimore’s City Police Commissioner Anthony Batts says that 80 percent [of murders] are (gang) drug-related. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ities.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another stand out is in 2013, 10,076 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States. http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/i ... sheet.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prohibition was repealed because 1) black market alcohol related crime became rampant, 2) The government lost significant tax revenue, 3) The majority of the populace shifted from their support to objection. Not only did we experiment with making alcohol illegal, we changed our minds and made it legal again. It remains legal at the price of 10,000 drunk driving deaths per year, plus some large number of other alcohol related deaths: other vehicles, machinery, alcohol poisoning, etc.

If you take out gang related gun deaths, (massively drug related) firearm murder rates will likely drop to less than a quarter of alcohol related deaths.

Should the outrage and concern be focused on the greater damage occurs?
Why is there a call for trigger locks or gun biometrics, but not for alcohol interlocks in all cars?
Are there lessons from prohibition that apply to illegal drugs?
Are there lessons from prohibition that apply to gun control?
Why is the freedom to drink alcohol viewed as a more universal right than bearing arms when alcohol (and drugs) cause greater death?

The larger question: Is the fervor on mass shooting and gun control media driven vs effective solution to murder rate driven? And why?
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deadheadskier
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by deadheadskier »

the problem with armed citizen policing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michigan-wo ... y-suspect/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.khou.com/story/news/2015/09/ ... /72923278/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
deadheadskier
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by deadheadskier »

Personally Mister Moose, I'm interested in seeing greater efforts made in stopping any kind of shooting death; inner city gang related, mass shooting, child accidents, suicides

I'd say our tolerance for drunk driving compared to thirty years ago is night and day. Not sure it's a great comparison because with the increased penalties over the years the rate of DUi deaths has dropped. The laws are working. Technology is improving where there are breathalyzer ignition kits in some locations for repeat offenders. We have periodic sobriety check points around my area all the time, which I have no problem with.
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Mister Moose
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by Mister Moose »

deadheadskier wrote:Personally Mister Moose, I'm interested in seeing greater efforts made in stopping any kind of shooting death; inner city gang related, mass shooting, child accidents, suicides

I'd say our tolerance for drunk driving compared to thirty years ago is night and day. Not sure it's a great comparison because with the increased penalties over the years the rate of DUi deaths has dropped. The laws are working. Technology is improving where there are breathalyzer ignition kits in some locations for repeat offenders. We have periodic sobriety check points around my area all the time, which I have no problem with.
Right. Consider also that while steps have been taken to reduce drunk driving deaths (DUI enforcement, MADD TV ads, driver education, enforcement) a high number of deaths still remain. How is this different than mass shooting deaths where background checks are needed for purchase, waiting periods have been added, a handgun license is required to carry. Haven't all gun deaths been reduced as a result? How is it any different? With drunk driving deaths near a thousand times the mass shooting rate, where is the outrage, media coverage, Presidential visits and speeches on drunk driving? Or on inner city gun deaths?

We have the technology available to install a breathalyzer in every car. DHS: Why isn't that done? Wouldn't that drop the drunk driver rate to near zero?
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deadheadskier
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by deadheadskier »

Gun deaths have been reduced. Still a ways to go IMO. And I see TV ads against drunk driving pretty much daily. I've never seen an ad in my life on gun safety to protect kids or how long you can go to jail for illegal possession of a gun. Maybe they should start. Guessing the NRA would protest such efforts just like they have anytime the CDC wants to do a study on gun deaths. The CDC can do studies on MVA deaths, but not guns. Why is that? Also, the background check and waiting period is a mute point with private firearm sales. Why is that?

I wouldn't have a problem with a breathalyzer ignition kit in my car. It's likely that all cars will eventually be self driving if not in my lifetime then definitely my son's, so the DD issue will be gone completely at that point except for motorcycles. Can't see them ever coming out with a self driving motorcycle.
XtremeJibber2001
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

Mister Moose wrote:With drunk driving deaths near a thousand times the mass shooting rate, where is the outrage, media coverage, Presidential visits and speeches on drunk driving? Or on inner city gun deaths?
It's the American attraction to violence and the news media sensationalizing of it for ratings.

While this was a big story in the area I grew up, it was never leading the national headlines, despite being tragic. It was not violent enough.

It's similar to charitable causes and donations. Why are donations so much higher for some ailments that aren't even the top killers? It's either because we identify with it more (e.g., sad, small children, etc.) or because it's been sensationalized through national media / marketing.

However, I can tell you with absolute certainty there is not much sadder and pathetic than our President looking into the eyes of the parents of 20 children just killed at Sandy Hook and delivering an empty promise that he'd take action. He's taken none. I don't know how someone like that can sleep at night. To be fair, most if not all Presidents have done something similar.
3 N.j. Girls Killed In N.c. Crash The Teens Were On Spring Break. Two Friends Were Critically Hurt. The Other Motorist Faces Charges.
By Karen Masterson, Angela Coulombis and Joseph A. Gambardello, INQUIRER STAFF WRITERS
POSTED: April 08, 1999

KILL DEVIL HILLS, N.C. — Three teenage girlfriends from Burlington County on a spring-break trip to the Outer Banks were killed when their car was slammed broadside by a drunken driver who ran her sport-utility vehicle through a red light, authorities said yesterday.

Two other friends were badly injured in the crash Tuesday in the shadow of the obelisk commemorating the first flight by the Wright brothers in neighboring Kitty Hawk.

Police said the driver of the sport-utility vehicle, Melissa Lynn Marvin, 29, of Kill Devil Hills, had been twice convicted of reckless driving. She was charged Tuesday with driving while impaired, three counts of felony death by motor vehicle, reckless driving, speeding, and running a red light. She was in jail after failing to post $31,000 bail and faces a court hearing tomorrow.

Killed were Angela McGrady and Amanda Geiger, both of Medford, and Megan Blong of Shamong. Allwere 17. McGrady and Blong were juniors at Shawnee High School. Geiger had attended Lenape High School but left this year as a junior.

Injured were Michael Horner, 17, a junior at Shawnee from Shamong, and Shana Lawler, 17, who had lived in Medford and moved to Colington on the Outer Banks in the past year. Both were flown to hospitals on the mainland. Horner underwent surgery to remove his spleen and was in the intensive-care unit with a collapsed lung and possible broken rib at Albemarle Hospital in Elizabeth City, N.C. Lawler was reported in critical condition yesterday at Sentara Hospital in Norfolk, Va.

The bodies of Blong, Geiger and McGrady were flown home yesterday.

The four Burlington County teens had taken a bus over the weekend to spend their spring break with Lawler and her parents on the Outer Banks, a favorite destination this time of year.

Police said the five were in a 1988 Chevrolet Cavalier owned by Lawler's parents, Paul and Brenda, when the crash occurred just before 3 p.m. Tuesday.

With Blong behind the wheel, the teens apparently were headed back to the Lawler house.

While crossing U.S. Route 158, the main north-south thoroughfare on the island, they were hit by the 1989 Mitsubishi Montero driven by Marvin.

Police said Marvin was heading north at 60 m.p.h. in a 50 m.p.h. zone and ran a red light. The sport-utility vehicle slammed into the driver's side of the westbound car.

Police Chief Ray Davis said there were no skid marks, indicating Marvin did not attempt to brake.

McGrady and Geiger, who were in the back seat, were dead at the scene. The driver, Blong, who was wearing a seat belt, died a short time later at the Outer Banks Medical Center. Horner was sitting in the passenger seat and Lawler was in the back seat.

Julia Phillips, a cashier at the Amoco station's convenience store, did not witness the crash but saw the aftermath.

The Cavalier, she said, had been hit with such force that it bent in the middle and looked like it almost cracked in half. It spun around and was facing east when it came to a halt.

Rescue crews had to cut the victims from the twisted metal, and the intersection was closed for about three hours, she said.

``If anybody made it out alive, it was God's works,'' she said.

She said she saw police handcuff Marvin and lead her shaking and in tears to a patrol car.

``I just feel for the families,'' Phillips said, adding the scene ``just ripped my heart out. I stood out there on the curb and cried.''

News of the tragedy sent shock waves through Medford and Shamong, from the Shop-Rite on Route 70 where McGrady worked part-time to the house in a cul-de-sac in the Lake Pine section of Medford where Geiger lived.

Horner's parents traveled to Elizabeth City to be near their son. Horner and McGrady had planned to attend the Shawnee junior prom together.

Mark Medvetz, a Shawnee junior, choked back tears yesterday as he described the sweet friendship he had with Blong, who was to be his prom date.

``She touched your heart,'' he said. ``She would open your eyes and let you know you were special.

``When I asked her, she was thrilled,'' Medvetz said proudly. ``She gave me a big hug.''

Blong, who had a limp from cerebral palsy she suffered as a baby, had run cross-country track in her sophomore year, usually coming in last but to the cheers of her teammates.

``She was really encouraging. She was always smiling,'' said Stephanie Kircher, 16, who ran with Blong and learned of her death yesterday at cross-country practice.

Geiger's father, Michael Sr., flew to Michigan to tell his other daughter Kelly, a student at Michigan State, of her sister's death. Geiger's mother, Marilyn, was in the hospital after undergoing hip surgery.

At the McGrady home on a busy road in Medford, about 15 cars were parked on the front lawn while friends and family gathered in the one-story brick ranch home to comfort the girl's family. An Easter bunny flag fluttered from a tree.

``She was very special,'' said her father, Michael, his voice cracking. ``All of her friends and family loved her dearly.''

Patricia Milich, spokeswoman for the Lenape Regional High School District, said guidance counselors would be on hand at Lenape and Shawnee High Schools to help students with their grief when they return for classes on Monday.

``We are deeply saddened by the news,'' Milich said. ``The district will make every effort to provide whatever grief counseling services are necessary to help the students.''

It is a task that the district has confronted before. Three students from the district's Cherokee High School have been killed in separate accidents involving automobiles in the past year and a half.
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by Bubba »

NY Times Common Response After Killings in Oregon: ‘I Want to Have a Gun’

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/us/or ... 74587&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by madhatter »

Bubba wrote:NY Times Common Response After Killings in Oregon: ‘I Want to Have a Gun’

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/us/or ... 74587&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
far better to have and not need than to need and not have....
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by Dr. NO »

Bubba wrote:NY Times Common Response After Killings in Oregon: ‘I Want to Have a Gun’

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/us/or ... 74587&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Every Time a politician screams "gun control" the gun rights advocates buy more guns and more ammunition, especially prior to enactment of new gun laws.

Any mass killings in Vermont? How about Wyoming or Montana? Hmm, you can carry open in those states and concealed in VT and Montana. Permit required in WY. BUTT, if you pull out a gun to mean harm to the civilian population, you would probably meet 10 or more carry persons to end you misguided assault.
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Re: Oregon Community College Shooting

Post by SnoBrdr »

Dr. NO wrote:
Bubba wrote:NY Times Common Response After Killings in Oregon: ‘I Want to Have a Gun’

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/us/or ... 74587&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Every Time a politician screams "gun control" the gun rights advocates buy more guns and more ammunition, especially prior to enactment of new gun laws.

Any mass killings in Vermont? How about Wyoming or Montana? Hmm, you can carry open in those states and concealed in VT and Montana. Permit required in WY. BUTT, if you pull out a gun to mean harm to the civilian population, you would probably meet 10 or more carry persons to end you misguided assault.
Does 3 count as a mass killing?

If so Vermont had one very recently.
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