Apple vs FBI

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XtremeJibber2001
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Apple vs FBI

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

In agreement with Apple here - it's about the precedence set and also about the on-going encryption struggle between the private/public sector.
Apple.com wrote:A Message to Our Customers
The United States government has demanded that Apple take an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers. We oppose this order, which has implications far beyond the legal case at hand.

This moment calls for public discussion, and we want our customers and people around the country to understand what is at stake.

The Need for Encryption
Smartphones, led by iPhone, have become an essential part of our lives. People use them to store an incredible amount of personal information, from our private conversations to our photos, our music, our notes, our calendars and contacts, our financial information and health data, even where we have been and where we are going.

All that information needs to be protected from hackers and criminals who want to access it, steal it, and use it without our knowledge or permission. Customers expect Apple and other technology companies to do everything in our power to protect their personal information, and at Apple we are deeply committed to safeguarding their data.

Compromising the security of our personal information can ultimately put our personal safety at risk. That is why encryption has become so important to all of us.

For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.

The San Bernardino Case
We were shocked and outraged by the deadly act of terrorism in San Bernardino last December. We mourn the loss of life and want justice for all those whose lives were affected. The FBI asked us for help in the days following the attack, and we have worked hard to support the government’s efforts to solve this horrible crime. We have no sympathy for terrorists.

When the FBI has requested data that’s in our possession, we have provided it. Apple complies with valid subpoenas and search warrants, as we have in the San Bernardino case. We have also made Apple engineers available to advise the FBI, and we’ve offered our best ideas on a number of investigative options at their disposal.

We have great respect for the professionals at the FBI, and we believe their intentions are good. Up to this point, we have done everything that is both within our power and within the law to help them. But now the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create. They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.

Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.

The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.

The Threat to Data Security
Some would argue that building a backdoor for just one iPhone is a simple, clean-cut solution. But it ignores both the basics of digital security and the significance of what the government is demanding in this case.

In today’s digital world, the “key” to an encrypted system is a piece of information that unlocks the data, and it is only as secure as the protections around it. Once the information is known, or a way to bypass the code is revealed, the encryption can be defeated by anyone with that knowledge.

The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that’s simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable.

The government is asking Apple to hack our own users and undermine decades of security advancements that protect our customers — including tens of millions of American citizens — from sophisticated hackers and cybercriminals. The same engineers who built strong encryption into the iPhone to protect our users would, ironically, be ordered to weaken those protections and make our users less safe.

We can find no precedent for an American company being forced to expose its customers to a greater risk of attack. For years, cryptologists and national security experts have been warning against weakening encryption. Doing so would hurt only the well-meaning and law-abiding citizens who rely on companies like Apple to protect their data. Criminals and bad actors will still encrypt, using tools that are readily available to them.

A Dangerous Precedent
Rather than asking for legislative action through Congress, the FBI is proposing an unprecedented use of the All Writs Act of 1789 to justify an expansion of its authority.

The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically. This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by “brute force,” trying thousands or millions of combinations with the speed of a modern computer.

The implications of the government’s demands are chilling. If the government can use the All Writs Act to make it easier to unlock your iPhone, it would have the power to reach into anyone’s device to capture their data. The government could extend this breach of privacy and demand that Apple build surveillance software to intercept your messages, access your health records or financial data, track your location, or even access your phone’s microphone or camera without your knowledge.

Opposing this order is not something we take lightly. We feel we must speak up in the face of what we see as an overreach by the U.S. government.

We are challenging the FBI’s demands with the deepest respect for American democracy and a love of our country. We believe it would be in the best interest of everyone to step back and consider the implications.

While we believe the FBI’s intentions are good, it would be wrong for the government to force us to build a backdoor into our products. And ultimately, we fear that this demand would undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect.

Tim Cook
Coydog
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by Coydog »

Yep, it's the same age old question, do we want more liberty or more security? I’ll go with liberty just about every time, including this time.
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by St. Jerry »

Coydog wrote:Yep, it's the same age old question, do we want more liberty or more security? I’ll go with liberty just about every time, including this time.
If we choose Liberty over Security, then the Terrorists have clearly won.
Ron Paul 2012
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by Coydog »

St. Jerry wrote:
Coydog wrote:Yep, it's the same age old question, do we want more liberty or more security? I’ll go with liberty just about every time, including this time.
If we choose Liberty over Security, then the Terrorists have clearly won.
Seems exactly backwards to me.
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by St. Jerry »

Coydog wrote:
St. Jerry wrote:
Coydog wrote:Yep, it's the same age old question, do we want more liberty or more security? I’ll go with liberty just about every time, including this time.
If we choose Liberty over Security, then the Terrorists have clearly won.
Seems exactly backwards to me.
No, if we're not safe then that means the Terrorists have won.
Ron Paul 2012
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by brownman »

Apple disguising this as some invasion of your privacy is BS.
They know their encryption algorithms inside and out.
Protesting building a back door is a smoke screen.
Access is available. They want to limit the scope of access.
Limited access is worth preserving .. more difficult each day.
If pressed hard (sanctions), Apple would fold like a napkin.

Don't kid yourself. Your data is on servers everywhere.

:Toast
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by Bubba »

A short story entitled "The Apple of My (FB) Eye"

Apple fights (wink, wink) the FBI, knowing that they will end up helping them anyway, whether by court order or voluntarily after the legal case has run its course. Apple wins the respect of its customers for fighting (wink, wink) the good fight, then provides the FBI with what it needs. FBI keeps the results of the investigation under wraps but ends up learning what, if anything, the cell phone can provide in the way of information. Everyone wins. We live happily ever after.

The End.
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"

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XtremeJibber2001
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

Coydog wrote:Yep, it's the same age old question, do we want more liberty or more security? I’ll go with liberty just about every time, including this time.
I agree. I can't see sacrificing the data security for 100,000,000 US citizens with iPhones as a reasonable comprise to learn what's on a single persons phone.
brownman wrote:Apple disguising this as some invasion of your privacy is BS.
They know their encryption algorithms inside and out.
Protesting building a back door is a smoke screen.
Access is available. They want to limit the scope of access.
Limited access is worth preserving .. more difficult each day.
If pressed hard (sanctions), Apple would fold like a napkin.

Don't kid yourself. Your data is on servers everywhere.

:Toast
Most in private sector security would disagree with you on the assertion that Apple has access to the all data on your phone.
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by Coydog »

Bubba wrote:A short story entitled "The Apple of My (FB) Eye"

Apple fights (wink, wink) the FBI, knowing that they will end up helping them anyway, whether by court order or voluntarily after the legal case has run its course. Apple wins the respect of its customers for fighting (wink, wink) the good fight, then provides the FBI with what it needs. FBI keeps the results of the investigation under wraps but ends up learning what, if anything, the cell phone can provide in the way of information. Everyone wins. We live happily ever after.

The End.
Including the terrorists, who strive to deprive us of our liberties.
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by Bubba »

Coydog wrote:
Bubba wrote:A short story entitled "The Apple of My (FB) Eye"

Apple fights (wink, wink) the FBI, knowing that they will end up helping them anyway, whether by court order or voluntarily after the legal case has run its course. Apple wins the respect of its customers for fighting (wink, wink) the good fight, then provides the FBI with what it needs. FBI keeps the results of the investigation under wraps but ends up learning what, if anything, the cell phone can provide in the way of information. Everyone wins. We live happily ever after.

The End.
Including the terrorists, who strive to deprive us of our liberties.
What liberty do you have to hide information from investigators after a crime as been committed and a search warrant has been issued? How is this different from having a search warrant to search the home of the terrorist after the fact? The FBI is only asking Apple for assistance in opening the door without blowing up the evidence inside. If Apple is concerned about the FBI using the key to open other doors, they can keep it themselves and or destroy the key once they open the door for the FBI in this case.

Personally, I think Apple is fighting right now in order to have the court develop a protocol in advance of them actually providing the assistance required.
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by shortski »

Sure give the Government a skeleton key to everything....what could possibly go wrong. As a matter of fact how about putting it on Hillary's personal server. Yeah thats the ticket.
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by freeski »

The FBI has access to everything on the phone. :shock: They have led the jihadists to believe their communications are safe when every word can be read. 8)
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XtremeJibber2001
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

Bubba wrote:
Coydog wrote:
Bubba wrote:A short story entitled "The Apple of My (FB) Eye"

Apple fights (wink, wink) the FBI, knowing that they will end up helping them anyway, whether by court order or voluntarily after the legal case has run its course. Apple wins the respect of its customers for fighting (wink, wink) the good fight, then provides the FBI with what it needs. FBI keeps the results of the investigation under wraps but ends up learning what, if anything, the cell phone can provide in the way of information. Everyone wins. We live happily ever after.

The End.
Including the terrorists, who strive to deprive us of our liberties.
What liberty do you have to hide information from investigators after a crime as been committed and a search warrant has been issued? How is this different from having a search warrant to search the home of the terrorist after the fact? The FBI is only asking Apple for assistance in opening the door without blowing up the evidence inside. If Apple is concerned about the FBI using the key to open other doors, they can keep it themselves and or destroy the key once they open the door for the FBI in this case.

Personally, I think Apple is fighting right now in order to have the court develop a protocol in advance of them actually providing the assistance required.
Forcing a private company to backdoor it's own security and compromise it's integrity with it's customers is much different than a house warrant executed on John Doe. I'm pretty surprised you'd be okay with this.

Would you be okay with the Gov't forcing a private sector technology company to provide the encryption key used by a private sector Energy company so they can access their industrial control systems? Does the Energy company have no say in the technology they purchased with the expectation of data security?
Last edited by XtremeJibber2001 on Feb 17th, '16, 11:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by Bubba »

freeski wrote:The FBI has access to everything on the phone. :shock: They have led the jihadists to believe their communications are safe when every word can be read. 8)
The "fight" being a cover would not surprise me in the least.
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Re: Apple vs FBI

Post by Coydog »

Bubba wrote: What liberty do you have to hide information from investigators after a crime as been committed and a search warrant has been issued? How is this different from having a search warrant to search the home of the terrorist after the fact? The FBI is only asking Apple for assistance in opening the door without blowing up the evidence inside. If Apple is concerned about the FBI using the key to open other doors, they can keep it themselves and or destroy the key once they open the door for the FBI in this case.

Personally, I think Apple is fighting right now in order to have the court develop a protocol in advance of them actually providing the assistance required.
What right does the FBI have to force Apple to provide a back door decryption protocol to my personal iPhone? If the FBI is only "asking", then Apple can say "no" and we all move on.

I have every right to protect my information. I don’t always have the expectation of privacy, but I certainly have the right to it and using encryption helps to protect my information as I see fit. If the government forces technology providers to furnish decryption protocols, then, in time, that information is essentially available to anyone for any purpose.

Of course, the FBI would only avail itself to this information to catch the bad guys and would never snoop on law abiding citizens - 'cause that never happens. And if they ever did, what do law abiding citizens have to hide anyway?
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