more greatness

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madhatter
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more greatness

Post by madhatter »

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-2 ... rier-plant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
mach es sehr schnell

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XtremeJibber2001
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Re: more greatness

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

So Trump is doing what other nations have been doing to grow their economy. Ireland is a great example. CEOs are met by the Prime Minister and work together to grow jobs, but in the US CEOs are ostracized as greedy by the US gov't.

I'm curious how the corporate tax code changes are material enough to meet (or exceed) the benefits of cheap labor in Mexico. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
madhatter
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Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
So Trump is doing what other nations have been doing to grow their economy. Ireland is a great example. CEOs are met by the Prime Minister and work together to grow jobs, but in the US CEOs are ostracized as greedy by the US gov't.obama administration govt...

I'm curious how the corporate tax code changes are material enough to meet (or exceed) the benefits of cheap labor in Mexico. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
it's also the negative publicity of trump exposing your company as a sellout to the people and the country...perhaps even more so... as I have said before I expect trump to use the bully pulpit to exact change for the better, not as platform to divide and conquer like the current @sshole...

this:

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When Trump stood in the shadow of a Ford Motor factory during the Michigan primary, he threatened the corporation that if they did indeed go ahead with their planned closure of that factory and move it to Mexico, he would slap a 35% tariff on any Mexican-built cars shipped back to the United States. It was sweet, sweet music to the ears of the working class of Michigan, and when he tossed in his threat to Apple that he would force them to stop making their iPhones in China and build them here in America, well, hearts swooned and Trump walked away with a big victory that should have gone to the governor next-door, John Kasich.







is powerful stuff...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Bubba
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Re: more greatness

Post by Bubba »

Short term gain but potentially a long term problem. From Yahoo Finance:
If companies like Carrier only sold their products in the United States and competed only against other US firms, the case for keeping the jobs here would be simpler and stronger. But no country’s economy works like that anymore, and inefficiencies at any one company give competitors a pricing or quality edge. “Carrier must worry about competition from other producers, some of whom may produce all their products in low-cost overseas plants,” says economist Gary Burtless of the Brookings Institution. “If Carrier loses US and overseas business and profits because its manufacturing costs are higher than those of its competitors, the US plants may ultimately shrink or close.”

Carrier’s competitors include Trane and American Standard, both owned by Ingersoll-Rand (IR), which is based in Dublin, Ireland; Rheem, headquartered in Atlanta; and Goodman, owned by Daikin, a Japanese conglomerate. Each has manufacturing operations all over the world. If any one company has higher costs than another—whether labor, components or anything else—its products will be more expensive than the competition and sales will most likely decline. If you can’t cut costs, the only choice often is to skimp on quality, which erodes profits even more. This is true for all appliances and just about every other sort of manufactured good.
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madhatter
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Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »

Bubba wrote:Short term gain but potentially a long term problem. From Yahoo Finance:
If companies like Carrier only sold their products in the United States and competed only against other US firms, the case for keeping the jobs here would be simpler and stronger. But no country’s economy works like that anymore, and inefficiencies at any one company give competitors a pricing or quality edge. “Carrier must worry about competition from other producers, some of whom may produce all their products in low-cost overseas plants,” says economist Gary Burtless of the Brookings Institution. “If Carrier loses US and overseas business and profits because its manufacturing costs are higher than those of its competitors, the US plants may ultimately shrink or close.”

Carrier’s competitors include Trane and American Standard, both owned by Ingersoll-Rand (IR), which is based in Dublin, Ireland; Rheem, headquartered in Atlanta; and Goodman, owned by Daikin, a Japanese conglomerate. Each has manufacturing operations all over the world. If any one company has higher costs than another—whether labor, components or anything else—its products will be more expensive than the competition and sales will most likely decline. If you can’t cut costs, the only choice often is to skimp on quality, which erodes profits even more. This is true for all appliances and just about every other sort of manufactured good.
we'll see...USA is still the one of if not the biggest consumer markets...margins may have to narrow for some...trade agreements will also play a role, as will rollbacks of regulations, repeal and replace of obamacare and corporate tax rate adjustments...can;t do any of that til he;s actually in office...theoretical ( at this point anyway) growth that encourages expansion and increased demand resulting from consumer and business economic confidence/increased spending power will help too, but it's not a given to occur...amazing how much more he's already accomplished than the agitator in chief did in 8 years... guess when the bar is sooooo low almost anything counts as an accomplishment though...


FYI yahoo is very leftwing oriented....a whole lot more propaganda and leftist viewpoint masquerading as "news" than anything else...the econ 101 lesson is amusing but hardly "news" or insight...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
brownman
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Re: more greatness

Post by brownman »

Greatness is in the eye of the beholder.

UTC won't roll the dice with Trump when the lions share of it's $57 B revenue comes through military contracts with Pratt and UTC Aero.

Last week, an out of court settlement, this week, extortion .. Great for the workers !

:seeya
Forever .. Goat Path
madhatter
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Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »

brownman wrote:Greatness is in the eye of the beholder.

UTC won't roll the dice with Trump when the lions share of it's $57 B revenue comes through military contracts with Pratt and UTC Aero.

Last week, an out of court settlementalmost as rare as r@iny wednesdays, this week, extortion it's called LEVERAGE when it's not illegal or unethical... Great for the workers !anyone who's job was saved will certainly think so, and who really cares what any of the sour grapes "not directly affected by this" crowd thinks anyway???sour grapes just turn to whine...

:seeya
tears are in the eye of the besmircher...

so much greatness, many many people are saying they haven;t seen this much greatness in years....MAGA-nificent
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
XtremeJibber2001
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Re: more greatness

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

It will be difficult for Trump to get current US-companies to bring their overseas manufacturing back to the US, without a complete overhaul of the tax code ... like the tax holiday introduced in Puerto Rico back in the 70s or so ... we saw how that went though.
madhatter
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Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:It will be difficult for Trump to get current US-companies to bring their overseas manufacturing back to the US, without a complete overhaul of the tax code ... like the tax holiday introduced in Puerto Rico back in the 70s or so ... we saw how that went though.
no one said making america great again was gonna be easy or a given...but no one else seems to have even remotely tried...


corporate tax rate @15%, factory/plant/business development and hiring incentives along w incentives to take on inner city trainees etc will provide a catalyst...there's a huge "untapped" market at the lower income levels IF you can increase their earnings AND spending power....providing a path for symbiotic employer/employee oriented incentives vs affirmative action oriented job killers is how you grow the private sector and expand the middle class...


obviously a lot of this is "idea" vs reality, at least right now...but it's a whole lot more promising than "community agitating" ever was...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Nikoli
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Re: more greatness

Post by Nikoli »

Poster Child of Trump Campaign only reason it is happening.
Let the free market work. If things can be made cheaper somewhere else then so be it. The brutal reality of capitalism. Embrace it or get run over.
And the sea will grant each man new hope . . .
-Christopher Columbus
deadheadskier
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Re: more greatness

Post by deadheadskier »

madhatter wrote:

FYI yahoo is very leftwing oriented....a whole lot more propaganda and leftist viewpoint masquerading as "news" than anything else....
FYI, zerohedge, breitbart, infowars etc. is very right wing oriented.....a whole lot more propaganda and alt right viewpoints masquerading as "news" than anything else.....

Butt.....you might want to take your own advice
madhatter wrote:
who cares what the source was if the info is accurate?
madhatter
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Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »

deadheadskier wrote:
madhatter wrote:

FYI yahoo is very leftwing oriented....a whole lot more propaganda and leftist viewpoint masquerading as "news" than anything else....
FYI, zerohedge, breitbart, infowars etc. is very right wing oriented.....a whole lot more propaganda and alt right viewpoints masquerading as "news" than anything else.....

Butt.....you might want to take your own advice
madhatter wrote:
who cares what the source was if the info is accurate?
zh is a conglomerate of news sources ranging the entire politisphere as is RCP...the yahoo "news" article was pure opinion based speculation...a whole bunch of IF's and BUT's...see Harley Davidson for an example of how this works...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Bubba
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Re: more greatness

Post by Bubba »

From CNBC

How Democrats handed Trump a golden opportunity with Carrier deal
Dustin McKissen

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/01/in-carri ... oo&ref=yfp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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boston_e
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Re: more greatness

Post by boston_e »

It is a good thing these jobs are not leaving the US.

On the flip side, what incentives did Trump offer? And does this set the precedent for any large company to threaten to move jobs out of the country in exchange for some sort of tax deal or another? Could end up being a slippery slope... will be interesting to see the long term effects.
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Bubba
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Re: more greatness

Post by Bubba »

Excerpted from CNBC on-line this afternoon:
Since manufacturing employment peaked in 1979 at nearly 20 million, some 8 million of those jobs have been lost to automation and cheaper foreign labor markets. Those losses accelerated after the 2001 recession, when competition from China surged, according to MIT researchers, who estimate some 2.0 million to 2.4 million jobs left for China between 1999 and 2011.


But while the level of U.S. manufacturing employment has fallen by roughly a third, overall manufacturing output has doubled, thanks to a surge in productivity brought by increased automation, better supply chain management and other efficiency improvements. Those upgrades aren't going away.

As a result, U.S. manufacturers are able to make more of their product with fewer workers.
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