more greatness

Anything and Everything political, express your view, but play nice
boston_e
Postaholic
Posts: 2979
Joined: May 19th, '07, 21:12

Re: more greatness

Post by boston_e »

Bubba wrote:Excerpted from CNBC on-line this afternoon:
Since manufacturing employment peaked in 1979 at nearly 20 million, some 8 million of those jobs have been lost to automation and cheaper foreign labor markets. Those losses accelerated after the 2001 recession, when competition from China surged, according to MIT researchers, who estimate some 2.0 million to 2.4 million jobs left for China between 1999 and 2011.


But while the level of U.S. manufacturing employment has fallen by roughly a third, overall manufacturing output has doubled, thanks to a surge in productivity brought by increased automation, better supply chain management and other efficiency improvements. Those upgrades aren't going away.

As a result, U.S. manufacturers are able to make more of their product with fewer workers.
I absolutely see this in my small little window to the world. I sell into light to medium duty manufacturing. During the most recent recession I saw plenty of plants at best not replacing employees who left, or at worst, laying people off. During that time many plants learned to do more with less. As the economy began to pick up I can't tell you how many times I heard things like "we used to make 10 widgets per hour with 6 people, now we make 15 per hour with 4 people"…. I used to always leave thinking about how those were jobs that were never coming back.

It is a bitter pill to swallow, but a lot of these manufacturing jobs are never coming back. To some extent that ship has sailed and it isn't coming back regardless of who is in the White House.
Don't Killington Pico
Nikoli
Poster Child Poster
Posts: 2091
Joined: Apr 17th, '07, 08:49

Re: more greatness

Post by Nikoli »

We are all doomed! The machines will be taking over.
Long video but what I think will be a massive issue in the not so distant future.

https://youtu.be/LMmT2rlRnHQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And the sea will grant each man new hope . . .
-Christopher Columbus
brownman
Postinator
Posts: 7351
Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 17:59
Location: Stockbridge Boulevard

Re: more greatness

Post by brownman »

Perhaps zero hedge missed those statistics.
That aside, the coal miners sure are stoked. :wink:
The 1000 Carrier workers should fund Pratt & Whitney's Holiday party. :idea:

:seeya
Forever .. Goat Path
madhatter
Signature Poster
Posts: 18340
Joined: Apr 2nd, '08, 17:26

Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »



it's good to be great...The most wonderful time in 8 years...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Dr. NO
Signature Poster
Posts: 21422
Joined: Nov 5th, '04, 05:52
Location: In the Baah!

Re: more greatness

Post by Dr. NO »

boston_e wrote:
Bubba wrote:Excerpted from CNBC on-line this afternoon:
Since manufacturing employment peaked in 1979 at nearly 20 million, some 8 million of those jobs have been lost to automation and cheaper foreign labor markets. Those losses accelerated after the 2001 recession, when competition from China surged, according to MIT researchers, who estimate some 2.0 million to 2.4 million jobs left for China between 1999 and 2011.


But while the level of U.S. manufacturing employment has fallen by roughly a third, overall manufacturing output has doubled, thanks to a surge in productivity brought by increased automation, better supply chain management and other efficiency improvements. Those upgrades aren't going away.

As a result, U.S. manufacturers are able to make more of their product with fewer workers.



I absolutely see this in my small little window to the world. I sell into light to medium duty manufacturing. During the most recent recession I saw plenty of plants at best not replacing employees who left, or at worst, laying people off. During that time many plants learned to do more with less. As the economy began to pick up I can't tell you how many times I heard things like "we used to make 10 widgets per hour with 6 people, now we make 15 per hour with 4 people"…. I used to always leave thinking about how those were jobs that were never coming back.

It is a bitter pill to swallow, but a lot of these manufacturing jobs are never coming back. To some extent that ship has sailed and it isn't coming back regardless of who is in the White House.
Automation and lean manufacturing kept me busy and employed for 32 years. When you replace a person with machines, someone has to install, maintain and teach others about that machine and its electronics. No different than the computer world which was expected to max out at a few hundred. Now everyone has one or more pc's.
MUST STOP POSTING ! MUST STOP POSTING !

Shut up and Ski!

Why's Everybody Always Pickin on Me?
deadheadskier
Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
Posts: 3913
Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03

Re: more greatness

Post by deadheadskier »

I think it's great that these jobs were kept. Trump and Pence basically gave carrier $6k per saved job to stay in the US.

What's surprising though is how so many so called "conservatives" are cheering this move though. What about less government in business and free market capitalism they've been beating the drum about? What about all the bitching about tax credits the solar and wind industry have received resulting in the creation and retention of 1000s of jobs? Why has that been such a problem yet AC units are totally fine?

It's fine to like what Trump has done, but you lose a lot of your argument about government involvement in business and free market capitalism.
XtremeJibber2001
Signature Poster
Posts: 19561
Joined: Nov 5th, '04, 09:35
Location: New York

Re: more greatness

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

deadheadskier wrote:I think it's great that these jobs were kept. Trump and Pence basically gave carrier $6k per saved job to stay in the US.

What's surprising though is how so many so called "conservatives" are cheering this move though. What about less government in business and free market capitalism they've been beating the drum about? What about all the bitching about tax credits the solar and wind industry have received resulting in the creation and retention of 1000s of jobs? Why has that been such a problem yet AC units are totally fine?

It's fine to like what Trump has done, but you lose a lot of your argument about government involvement in business and free market capitalism.
What they're not telling you is Carrier has another plant, not the one mentioned in the news, which they're still planning to move it to Mexico.

As for as what was promised I assume it was a promise of future legislation being passed, which will benefit all, not a package just for Carrier. This would still fall under free market, IMHO
deadheadskier
Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
Posts: 3913
Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03

Re: more greatness

Post by deadheadskier »

Based on this article this was a deal made specifically for Carrier

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/poli ... /94689946/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
madhatter
Signature Poster
Posts: 18340
Joined: Apr 2nd, '08, 17:26

Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »

deadheadskier wrote:I think it's great that these jobs were kept. Trump and Pence basically gave carrier $6k per saved job to stay in the US.

What's surprising though is how so many so called "conservatives" are cheering this move though. What about less government in business and free market capitalism they've been beating the drum about? What about all the bitching about tax credits the solar and wind industry have received resulting in the creation and retention of 1000s of jobs? Why has that been such a problem yet AC units are totally fine?

It's fine to like what Trump has done, but you lose a lot of your argument about government involvement in business and free market capitalism.
gave? how so? conditional tax credits were given at the state level...if the factory moves the tax collected is ZERO...w a operating factory employing 800 people, the town/state is able to benefit in a number of ways, vs tumbleweeds all around if they vacate...carrier will also invest 16 million plus into that plant, certainly some of that will benefit the local economy...significantly different than the imaginary green energy/solyndra BS clownboy tried...

as far as govt involvement it's gonna take a little while to undo the idiot experiment of the last 8 years...govt will HAVE to get involved in order to accomplish that...what we don;t want to see is self empowering, self serving, perpetually cumbersome govt, laws, rules and regulations that do anything but what their "supposed" intention was claimed to do...e.g the ACA which had nothing to do with making it affordable and everything to do with govt expansion and increased power at the federal level...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
brownman
Postinator
Posts: 7351
Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 17:59
Location: Stockbridge Boulevard

Re: more greatness

Post by brownman »

For many of us, the jury remains out.
Although the Thank You Tour is a Great Promo. :lol:
Does he realize the campaign has ended ?

:seeya
Forever .. Goat Path
deadheadskier
Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
Posts: 3913
Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03

Re: more greatness

Post by deadheadskier »

So, Madhatter, where have you been with your pom poms cheering on Governor Malloy who has given out hundreds of millions in similar tax credits in your home state of CT to private businesses to maintain jobs?

Is government meddling in the market only okay when R does it?
madhatter
Signature Poster
Posts: 18340
Joined: Apr 2nd, '08, 17:26

Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »

brownman wrote:For many of us, the jury remains out.for the rest of us, who cares? think whatever you want, do whatever you want...that's the difference between trump and hopey dope...the carrier deal has ZERO effect on you, and was a great thing for 1000+ familes directly and many many more indirectly...many people are saying this is going to be the greatest Christmas they've had in along time...BIGLY...
Although the Thank You Tour is a Great Promo. :lol:
Does he realize the campaign has ended ?

:seeya
the current j@ckass did nothing but campaign for the last 8 years...you do realize that trump still hasn't taken office? DEFINITELY expect LOTS of promotion...way better than lots of divisive rhetoric which is all we got from the agitator in chief...

MAGA-NIFICENT....

The most wonderful time in 8 years...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
madhatter
Signature Poster
Posts: 18340
Joined: Apr 2nd, '08, 17:26

Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »

deadheadskier wrote:So, Madhatter, where have you been with your pom poms cheering on Governor Malloy who has given out hundreds of millions in similar tax credits in your home state of CT to private businesses to maintain jobs?

Is government meddling in the market only okay when R does it?
I haven't lived in CT in 10 years...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
deadheadskier
Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
Posts: 3913
Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03

Re: more greatness

Post by deadheadskier »

madhatter wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:So, Madhatter, where have you been with your pom poms cheering on Governor Malloy who has given out hundreds of millions in similar tax credits in your home state of CT to private businesses to maintain jobs?

Is government meddling in the market only okay when R does it?
I haven't lived in CT in 10 years...
You don't live in Indiana either.
madhatter
Signature Poster
Posts: 18340
Joined: Apr 2nd, '08, 17:26

Re: more greatness

Post by madhatter »

madhatter wrote:
deadheadskier wrote:So, Madhatter, where have you been with your pom poms cheering on Governor Malloy who has given out hundreds of millions in similar tax credits in your home state of CT to private businesses to maintain jobs?

Is government meddling in the market only okay when R does it?
I haven't lived in CT in 10 years...
ratio of dollars per job seems a bit higher than the above claimed 6k per at carrier...

http://ctmirror.org/2016/08/23/call-it- ... -pays-off/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The top performer in jobs was NBC Sports, with 618 net new jobs in Connecticut. It all comes at a price: Not only the $256.6 million in direct assistance – loans, grants or loans that become grants based on performance – but another $125 million in tax credits.
seems the problem may be the "hundreds of millions" vs 7 million over 10 years...( performance based as well)

in the end it's up to the voters of CT to decide if they like this or not...Indiana voters may or may not like the carrier deal either and that will be up to them to decide as well...Trump didn't force Indiana to make the deal...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Post Reply