Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

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Nikoli
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Nikoli »

madhatter wrote:
Highway Star wrote:
madhatter wrote:
Nikoli wrote:https://www.broadbandmap.gov/number-of-providers

DSL and Satellite. That's funny.
that's what a significant portion of rural america has for options...
For sure. But that's one of the tradeoffs of living in a rural area.
it's not a problem...I can stream 4k youtube all day long w nary a glitch...DSL here is less than 7mb down...I had satellite before the DSL... great when the lines were all down during irene but the bandwidth throttling was far too restrictive...the promise of fiber has been at arms length for almost 10 yrs now...
They are coming for you with that 4k video stream all day. You're the wet dream.
And the sea will grant each man new hope . . .
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XtremeJibber2001
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

Nikoli wrote:
madhatter wrote:
Nikoli wrote:https://www.broadbandmap.gov/number-of-providers

DSL and Satellite. That's funny.
that's what a significant portion of rural america has for options...
And that suck but removing net neutrality rules will do nothing to change that.

Let's just boil it down. ISP don't like the idea you can now go around them for content (Netflix, HBO, HULU). This is a way for them to charge more for data. Cord cutting is cutting into cable TV profits. A whole generation of people is growing up without being forced into a cable package to consume content. They don't like that.
This.
madhatter
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by madhatter »

Nikoli wrote:
madhatter wrote:
Nikoli wrote:https://www.broadbandmap.gov/number-of-providers

DSL and Satellite. That's funny.
that's what a significant portion of rural america has for options...
And that suck but removing net neutrality rules will do nothing to change that.meh I'm plenty fine w it...not looking for net neutrality to change it...

Let's just boil it down. ISP don't like the idea you can now go around them for content (Netflix, HBO, HULU). This is a way for them to charge more for data. Cord cutting is cutting into cable TV profits. A whole generation of people is growing up without being forced into a cable package to consume content. They don't like that.
well yeah they are unhappy cuz they are providing the access for a fraction of what they once were...can they continue to lose big on one side of the coin and still provide cheap access on the other side? don;t get me wrong I think its all way too expensive already especially considering what you get and I definitely don't want to pay more nor do I want to receive less for what I do pay but who's interested in running, investing or developing a business that will generate paltry profits at best and be subject to continuous govt oversight?


as much as I hate to pay for the stuff a whole week w/o internet during that october windstorm was pretty lame...I still have satellite tv but good grief tv news is slow and painful at best...3 hrs to get half the news you get in 10 minutes online...and 100 times the bullsh!t...w/o internet madhatterville becomes rather isolated from the rest of the world ...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
madhatter
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by madhatter »

Nikoli wrote:
madhatter wrote:
Highway Star wrote:
madhatter wrote:
Nikoli wrote:https://www.broadbandmap.gov/number-of-providers

DSL and Satellite. That's funny.
that's what a significant portion of rural america has for options...
For sure. But that's one of the tradeoffs of living in a rural area.
it's not a problem...I can stream 4k youtube all day long w nary a glitch...DSL here is less than 7mb down...I had satellite before the DSL... great when the lines were all down during irene but the bandwidth throttling was far too restrictive...the promise of fiber has been at arms length for almost 10 yrs now...
They are coming for you with that 4k video stream all day. You're the wet dream.
well when that day comes I'll be "not streaming" vs ponying up...it's up to them to figure out a way to retain customers and still make a profit...I'm not looking for a govt solution...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Nikoli
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Nikoli »

madhatter wrote:
Highway Star wrote:
madhatter wrote:
Nikoli wrote:https://www.broadbandmap.gov/number-of-providers

DSL and Satellite. That's funny.
that's what a significant portion of rural america has for options...
For sure. But that's one of the tradeoffs of living in a rural area.
it's not a problem...I can stream 4k youtube all day long w nary a glitch...DSL here is less than 7mb down...I had satellite before the DSL... great when the lines were all down during irene but the bandwidth throttling was far too restrictive...the promise of fiber has been at arms length for almost 10 yrs now...
And down the tubes goes innovation.
And the sea will grant each man new hope . . .
-Christopher Columbus
Highway Star
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Highway Star »

Nikoli wrote:
madhatter wrote:
Nikoli wrote:https://www.broadbandmap.gov/number-of-providers

DSL and Satellite. That's funny.
that's what a significant portion of rural america has for options...
And that suck but removing net neutrality rules will do nothing to change that.

Let's just boil it down. ISP don't like the idea you can now go around them for content (Netflix, HBO, HULU). This is a way for them to charge more for data. Cord cutting is cutting into cable TV profits. A whole generation of people is growing up without being forced into a cable package to consume content. They don't like that.
What you just posted is pure fantasy.

Verizon Wireless is RIGHT NOW, AS WE SPEAK hampering my ability to cord cut by throttling my ability to stream video. I'm an actual REAL cord cutter, and started when it was bleeding edge. I get antenna TV, and stream/download other content as needed. I dropped my fiber connection several years ago and am now fully wireless.

But overall, cord cutting is a false MEME. Seriously, the vast majority of people who make any money have cable TV. Only broke ass college kids cord cut, and they don't know you can get TV OTA with an antenna. How many people do you actually know who cord cut? People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them I don't have cable.

Cable companies care, in some abstract context, about cord cutting, but at the end of the day they just want to sell you the most expensive thing they possibly can. They want charge a significant amount for even a base level of service, and then charge 20% more for twice the service - UPSELLING AND YIELD MANAGEMENT.

They would rather sell you an $80 TV/Internet/Phone package, vs. a $60 internet package, or $65 Cable package. They have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in attempting to sell people $30 packages of access to certain websites, nor do they want to deploy the backend infrastructure to make that happen on a mass scale.
"I'M YELLING BECAUSE YOU DID SOMETHING COOL!" - Humpty Dumpty

"Kzone should bill you for the bandwidth you waste writing novels to try and prove a point, but end up just looking like a deranged narcissistic fool." - Deadheadskier at madhatter

"The key is to not be lame, and know it, and not give a rat's @$$ what anybody thinks......that's real cool." - Highway Star http://goo.gl/xJxo34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I am one of the coolest people on the internet..." - Highway Star

"I have a tiny penis...." - C-Rex

XtremeJibber2001 - THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS YOU COMPLETELY HYPNOTIZED. PLEASE WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO FILTER REALITY FROM BS NARRATIVES.

"Your life is only interesting when you capture the best, fakest, most curated split second version." - Team Robot regarding Instagram posters
Nikoli
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Nikoli »

Verizon Wireless is RIGHT NOW, AS WE SPEAK hampering my ability to cord cut by throttling my ability to stream video. I'm an actual REAL cord cutter, and started when it was bleeding edge. I get antenna TV, and stream/download other content as needed. I dropped my fiber connection several years ago and am now fully wireless.
The wireless spectrum got an exclusion. Title 2 only applies to wired networks but you are very informed.

They would rather sell you an $80 TV/Internet/Phone package, vs. a $60 internet package, or $65 Cable package. They have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in attempting to sell people $30 packages of access to certain websites, nor do they want to deploy the backend infrastructure to make that happen on a mass scale.
I never said the cost would come from you. That's one idea that is being floated but another is that content distribution companies would have to pay. Either way someone is paying more for the same thing.
And the sea will grant each man new hope . . .
-Christopher Columbus
Highway Star
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Highway Star »

Good breakdown of the rules repeal:

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/com ... wn_of_the/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Choice quote:
The report clarifies that the repeal of FCC Bright Line does not inhibit the FTC from enforcing an open internet, and regulation enforcement is delegated to the FTC heretofore. (FTC has a good record protecting consumers).

The FCC admits that this has the potential to become a problem. They claim it is highly unlikely because the FTC can come in and penetrate ISPs who act as monopolies. Plus, content providers (Google, Amazon, etc.) have an obscenely higher market capitalization than ISP's (Google alone has higher market cap than all ISP's combined), and that they can easily pressure ISPs to obey.

For example:

Comcast tries to throttle Netflix.

Netflix says f*** you we won't serve any of your Comcast kind here.

Comcast customers can't watch Stranger Things.

Comcast customers screech autistically.

Everyone (who can) leaves Comcast.

If nobody can leave Comcast, the FTC can declare Comcast a monopoly and bust their nuts.

Thus the FCC concludes it is unlikely that ISPs will paywall their content providers because content-providers will easily prevent them from doing it. FCC asserts that monopolies like Comcast will be combated with FTC anti-monopoly regulation, increased competition, and more ISP choices for customers that will drive price down and quality up. FCC will address individual ISP violations case by case if/when they arise.
"I'M YELLING BECAUSE YOU DID SOMETHING COOL!" - Humpty Dumpty

"Kzone should bill you for the bandwidth you waste writing novels to try and prove a point, but end up just looking like a deranged narcissistic fool." - Deadheadskier at madhatter

"The key is to not be lame, and know it, and not give a rat's @$$ what anybody thinks......that's real cool." - Highway Star http://goo.gl/xJxo34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I am one of the coolest people on the internet..." - Highway Star

"I have a tiny penis...." - C-Rex

XtremeJibber2001 - THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS YOU COMPLETELY HYPNOTIZED. PLEASE WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO FILTER REALITY FROM BS NARRATIVES.

"Your life is only interesting when you capture the best, fakest, most curated split second version." - Team Robot regarding Instagram posters
Highway Star
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Highway Star »

In the interest of equal time, here is the Reddit NN spergfest:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MarchForNetNeutrality/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not many good arguments, lots of ill informed people and a bunch of teeth gnashing about imagined throttling or paywalls.
"I'M YELLING BECAUSE YOU DID SOMETHING COOL!" - Humpty Dumpty

"Kzone should bill you for the bandwidth you waste writing novels to try and prove a point, but end up just looking like a deranged narcissistic fool." - Deadheadskier at madhatter

"The key is to not be lame, and know it, and not give a rat's @$$ what anybody thinks......that's real cool." - Highway Star http://goo.gl/xJxo34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I am one of the coolest people on the internet..." - Highway Star

"I have a tiny penis...." - C-Rex

XtremeJibber2001 - THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS YOU COMPLETELY HYPNOTIZED. PLEASE WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO FILTER REALITY FROM BS NARRATIVES.

"Your life is only interesting when you capture the best, fakest, most curated split second version." - Team Robot regarding Instagram posters
Highway Star
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Highway Star »

CTR's comment section on the statement is definitely worth checking out, plenty of insightful comments and history:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/20 ... ipulation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I'M YELLING BECAUSE YOU DID SOMETHING COOL!" - Humpty Dumpty

"Kzone should bill you for the bandwidth you waste writing novels to try and prove a point, but end up just looking like a deranged narcissistic fool." - Deadheadskier at madhatter

"The key is to not be lame, and know it, and not give a rat's @$$ what anybody thinks......that's real cool." - Highway Star http://goo.gl/xJxo34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I am one of the coolest people on the internet..." - Highway Star

"I have a tiny penis...." - C-Rex

XtremeJibber2001 - THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS YOU COMPLETELY HYPNOTIZED. PLEASE WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO FILTER REALITY FROM BS NARRATIVES.

"Your life is only interesting when you capture the best, fakest, most curated split second version." - Team Robot regarding Instagram posters
Nikoli
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Nikoli »

Let's go back to before the rules came into place. Wireless networks were exploding. The wireless companies were charging using gb / per month model and they were making god awful sums of money. They still are by the way. The cable companies wished they could do the same. There was talk in the industry of adding data caps on wired networks and trying gb / month models. The cable companies felt left out. Also, at the time the wireless carrier wouldn't allow you to piggyback off of your cell phone data. They wanted you to pay for tethering. Remember those days? Who's data is it? This is like the water authority charging you more to brush your teeth vs.take a shower.

Ask yourself this? Do you really trust these companies to do the right thing? (I don't) They are in business for one thing, to make money. Their current argument is that net neutrality gets in the way of them making money. This is just not true. The entire 4G networks of this country were built under net neutrality rules and not matter how they spin the numbers it just doesn't add up. At this point the internet is a necessity for modern life. Much like the highways of this country. Do you trust Verizon and Comcast and all of the other players to do the right thing?


One more thing, for the chairmen to try to bring twitter into the equation is petty on his part. It confuses the issue. He has shown his colors as a shill for the industry. The automated comments in favor of of repeal. I wonder who created that app and who paid for it? That's something I would love to know. Maybe congress should take a look at that. He should keep his mouth shut and take his payout.
And the sea will grant each man new hope . . .
-Christopher Columbus
XtremeJibber2001
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

I expect this will eventually make its way into the courts / SCOTUS.

If/when Net Neutrality is repealed, ISPs will essentially be able to reduce bandwidth to whatever they wish and/or charge companies for better bandwidth. For example, Comcast could reduce bandwidth to Netflix and force Netflix to pay for more bandwidth ... a cost they will ultimately have to pay to stay in business, which will be passed onto the consumer in terms of fees.

Keeping with the Comcast example ... they recently promised not to do this ... until they didn't. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... ed-repeal/

Meanwhile, Comcast and other ISPs own assertions during earnings calls that Title II has not impacted their bottom line or future plans.
madhatter
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by madhatter »

Nikoli wrote:Let's go back to before the rules came into place. Wireless networks were exploding. The wireless companies were charging using gb / per month model and they were making god awful sums of money. They still are by the way. The cable companies wished they could do the same. There was talk in the industry of adding data caps on wired networks and trying gb / month models. The cable companies felt left out. Also, at the time the wireless carrier wouldn't allow you to piggyback off of your cell phone data. They wanted you to pay for tethering. Remember those days? Who's data is it? This is like the water authority charging you more to brush your teeth vs.take a shower.

Ask yourself this? Do you really trust these companies to do the right thing? (I don't) They are in business for one thing, to make money. Their current argument is that net neutrality gets in the way of them making money. This is just not true. The entire 4G networks of this country were built under net neutrality rules and not matter how they spin the numbers it just doesn't add up. At this point the internet is a necessity for modern life. Much like the highways of this country. Do you trust Verizon and Comcast and all of the other players to do the right thing?


One more thing, for the chairmen to try to bring twitter into the equation is petty on his part. It confuses the issue. He has shown his colors as a shill for the industry. The automated comments in favor of of repeal. I wonder who created that app and who paid for it? That's something I would love to know. Maybe congress should take a look at that. He should keep his mouth shut and take his payout.
but you trust the govt to do the right thing?
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Nikoli
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Nikoli »

Yes, more than I trust verizon and gang.
And the sea will grant each man new hope . . .
-Christopher Columbus
Highway Star
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Re: Net Neutrality - the real facts from the FCC Chairman

Post by Highway Star »

Nikoli wrote:Let's go back to before the rules came into place. Wireless networks were exploding. The wireless companies were charging using gb / per month model and they were making god awful sums of money. They still are by the way. The cable companies wished they could do the same. There was talk in the industry of adding data caps on wired networks and trying gb / month models. The cable companies felt left out. Also, at the time the wireless carrier wouldn't allow you to piggyback off of your cell phone data. They wanted you to pay for tethering. Remember those days? Who's data is it? This is like the water authority charging you more to brush your teeth vs.take a shower.

Ask yourself this? Do you really trust these companies to do the right thing? (I don't) They are in business for one thing, to make money. Their current argument is that net neutrality gets in the way of them making money. This is just not true. The entire 4G networks of this country were built under net neutrality rules and not matter how they spin the numbers it just doesn't add up. At this point the internet is a necessity for modern life. Much like the highways of this country. Do you trust Verizon and Comcast and all of the other players to do the right thing?


One more thing, for the chairmen to try to bring twitter into the equation is petty on his part. It confuses the issue. He has shown his colors as a shill for the industry. The automated comments in favor of of repeal. I wonder who created that app and who paid for it? That's something I would love to know. Maybe congress should take a look at that. He should keep his mouth shut and take his payout.
Come on man. There's no free lunch. I pay $30 for tethering on my cell plan and $50 for true unlimited data, minus a small percentage discount I get. Then $50 for talk/text. After taxes its significantly over $100 per month. AND I still get throttled during video streaming and at some times of the day. AND I have to fully pay for my own phone.

I've considered switching back to a fiber connection, and getting a modern phone plan, for pretty much the same overall cost. But the convenience of having the mobile hotspot is great, the rate is locked in for now, and Verizon's service is excellent. When I get ready to upgrade my electronics to 4K resolution, I'm probably going to have to switch to fiber for streaming and large file downloads, but that's going to involve a $1k+ projector and a gaming PC with large storage - $3k total overall. Probably a couple years out for me.

4G has been around for quite a while now and it was built PRE Obama-net, under the title 1 rules. Why do you think the FFC Chairman pointed out that infrastructure investment is down under the new rules....?
"I'M YELLING BECAUSE YOU DID SOMETHING COOL!" - Humpty Dumpty

"Kzone should bill you for the bandwidth you waste writing novels to try and prove a point, but end up just looking like a deranged narcissistic fool." - Deadheadskier at madhatter

"The key is to not be lame, and know it, and not give a rat's @$$ what anybody thinks......that's real cool." - Highway Star http://goo.gl/xJxo34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I am one of the coolest people on the internet..." - Highway Star

"I have a tiny penis...." - C-Rex

XtremeJibber2001 - THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS YOU COMPLETELY HYPNOTIZED. PLEASE WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO FILTER REALITY FROM BS NARRATIVES.

"Your life is only interesting when you capture the best, fakest, most curated split second version." - Team Robot regarding Instagram posters
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