NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

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madhatter
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by madhatter »

SnoBrdr wrote:
Powderputz wrote:
Folks: we have a POLITICAL board page elsewhere on the K-zone. Please limit the Chatter board to non-political issues....thanks! The Political Board page will more than welcome your posts and remarks...Thanks! :-)
This was not posted as a political discussion but to show that this DoJ plans to actually enforce the current laws that are on the books.

No wonder you have "putz" in your name.
some people need safe spaces, free from reality....as if scrolling by isn't possible...
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by Bubba »

madhatter wrote:
SnoBrdr wrote:
Powderputz wrote:
Folks: we have a POLITICAL board page elsewhere on the K-zone. Please limit the Chatter board to non-political issues....thanks! The Political Board page will more than welcome your posts and remarks...Thanks! :-)
This was not posted as a political discussion but to show that this DoJ plans to actually enforce the current laws that are on the books.

No wonder you have "putz" in your name.
some people need safe spaces, free from reality....as if scrolling by isn't possible...
It didn't start off as political (borderline, perhaps) however it ended up being just that, hence the move.
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daytripper
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by daytripper »

SnoBrdr wrote:
Powderputz wrote:
Folks: we have a POLITICAL board page elsewhere on the K-zone. Please limit the Chatter board to non-political issues....thanks! The Political Board page will more than welcome your posts and remarks...Thanks! :-)
This was not posted as a political discussion but to show that this DoJ plans to actually enforce the current laws that are on the books.

No wonder you have "putz" in your name.
Sure seems political to me.
SnoBrdr
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by SnoBrdr »

Bubba wrote:
madhatter wrote:
SnoBrdr wrote:
Powderputz wrote:
Folks: we have a POLITICAL board page elsewhere on the K-zone. Please limit the Chatter board to non-political issues....thanks! The Political Board page will more than welcome your posts and remarks...Thanks! :-)
This was not posted as a political discussion but to show that this DoJ plans to actually enforce the current laws that are on the books.

No wonder you have "putz" in your name.
some people need safe spaces, free from reality....as if scrolling by isn't possible...
It didn't start off as political (borderline, perhaps) however it ended up being just that, hence the move.
Yet the viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38663&start=2760&hilit=climate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; isn't ?
Beware of fools & trolls here, they lurk everywhere.
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by Bubba »

SnoBrdr wrote:
Bubba wrote:
It didn't start off as political (borderline, perhaps) however it ended up being just that, hence the move.
Yet the viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38663&start=2760&hilit=climate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; isn't ?
We've made a judgment on that one; that keeping the thread where it is keeps everything in one place, whether the science or the politics of the issue. (Hard to separate the two these days.) Since weather and climate directly impact skiing, keeping it all in the Chatter forum makes sense.
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"

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You can checkout any time you like,
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"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
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SnoBrdr
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by SnoBrdr »

Bubba wrote:
SnoBrdr wrote:
Bubba wrote:
It didn't start off as political (borderline, perhaps) however it ended up being just that, hence the move.
Yet the viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38663&start=2760&hilit=climate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; isn't ?
We've made a judgment on that one; that keeping the thread where it is keeps everything in one place, whether the science or the politics of the issue. (Hard to separate the two these days.) Since weather and climate directly impact skiing, keeping it all in the Chatter forum makes sense.
I tend to agree but when 99% of the responses are political in nature it changes the whole scenario.
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madhatter
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by madhatter »

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... 1?lo=ap_e1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Did Jeff Sessions Just Increase the Odds Congress Will Make Marijuana Legal?
The attorney general has created intolerable uncertainty for a growing industry that is now demanding legal protections from Congress. And lawmakers are listening.
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Coydog
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by Coydog »

madhatter wrote:
but to say that the trump admin wants to intrude on states rights ( that in this case they don't actually have but might have if congress changed the law) or personal liberties or whatever DHS said is just partisan quackery...Trump has said in the past that congress should change the law if that's what the people want...til then federal law will "trump" local law as it always has in the past...
US Constitution wrote: Amendment X

Rights Reserved to States or People.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The existence of a federal law does not necessarily mean it is constitutional.

There is no enumerated power the people have granted the Federal government (hence Congress) to regulate personal marijuana usage by adults - despite some tortured application of the Commerce Clause. We needed to pass a constitutional amendment to prohibit alcohol and we all know how well that worked out.

The states surely do not want to see their newly found tax revenue "go up in smoke" and big business is increasingly getting involved (criminy, we've got pot venture capital funds now). Sessions might have unwittingly provided the impetus to decide the constitutionality of this question once and for all. Of course, the little devil will probably have to recuse himself.
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by SnoBrdr »

Coydog wrote:
madhatter wrote:
but to say that the trump admin wants to intrude on states rights ( that in this case they don't actually have but might have if congress changed the law) or personal liberties or whatever DHS said is just partisan quackery...Trump has said in the past that congress should change the law if that's what the people want...til then federal law will "trump" local law as it always has in the past...
US Constitution wrote: Amendment X

Rights Reserved to States or People.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The existence of a federal law does not necessarily mean it is constitutional.

There is no enumerated power the people have granted the Federal government (hence Congress) to regulate personal marijuana usage by adults - despite some tortured application of the Commerce Clause. We needed to pass a constitutional amendment to prohibit alcohol and we all know how well that worked out.

The states surely do not want to see their newly found tax revenue "go up in smoke" and big business is increasingly getting involved (criminy, we've got pot venture capital funds now). Sessions might have unwittingly provided the impetus to decide the constitutionality of this question once and for all. Of course, the little devil will probably have to recuse himself.
All laws are "constitutional" until ruled otherwise.

The Marijuana Tax Act has been the law since 1937.

A Federal lawsuit challenging the law was filed in early 2017 and of yet has gone no where.

As far as big business getting involved, find a Federally chartered bank that is willing to take any deposits from the pot industry. Or a credit card company for that matter.

So as of now, your arguments are nothing more that blowing smoke until anything real is done.

These are not political statements but are facts based on the current laws, don't like them, get them changed.
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Coydog
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by Coydog »

SnoBrdr wrote:
All laws are "constitutional" until ruled otherwise.

The Marijuana Tax Act has been the law since 1937.

A Federal lawsuit challenging the law was filed in early 2017 and of yet has gone no where.

As far as big business getting involved, find a Federally chartered bank that is willing to take any deposits from the pot industry. Or a credit card company for that matter.

So as of now, your arguments are nothing more that blowing smoke until anything real is done.

These are not political statements but are facts based on the current laws, don't like them, get them changed.
The Marijuana Tax Act was unconstitutional folly and fully repealed in 1970. It is not a law at all.

Though often preferred, businesses don't require banks run by the federal government to turn a profit - state banks, credit unions and PayPal-like technologies do nicely.

A specious federal law that in part categorizes marijuana as a Schedule 1 drug is as absurd as it is unconstitutional. You can blindly follow it if you wish, I'll make my own decisions and gladly accept the consequences from our misguided Attorney General.
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by SnoBrdr »

Coydog wrote:
SnoBrdr wrote:
All laws are "constitutional" until ruled otherwise.

The Marijuana Tax Act has been the law since 1937.

A Federal lawsuit challenging the law was filed in early 2017 and of yet has gone no where.

As far as big business getting involved, find a Federally chartered bank that is willing to take any deposits from the pot industry. Or a credit card company for that matter.

So as of now, your arguments are nothing more that blowing smoke until anything real is done.

These are not political statements but are facts based on the current laws, don't like them, get them changed.
The Marijuana Tax Act was unconstitutional folly and fully repealed in 1970. It is not a law at all.

Though often preferred, businesses don't require banks run by the federal government to turn a profit - state banks, credit unions and PayPal-like technologies do nicely.

A specious federal law that in part categorizes marijuana as a Schedule 1 drug is as absurd as it is unconstitutional. You can blindly follow it if you wish, I'll make my own decisions and gladly accept the consequences from our misguided Attorney General.
Who would use a bank or credit union that is NOT federally insured.

The bank/credit union could "lose" all your money and you'd be up the creek.

It happened here in the 70s with private banks/credit unions that were not federally insured.

The MTA was never ruled unconstitutional, it was repealed by Congress in 1969 and the The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 replaced it.
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Coydog
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by Coydog »

In Leary v US, Scotus found the MTA required self-incrimination, thus violating the 5th Amendment. In other words, the MTA was unconstitutional. Regardless, it hasn't been the law for almost 50 years.

If there is money to be made, businesses will innovate:

Why It’s Getting Easier For Marijuana Companies To Open Bank Accounts
“We’re definitely seeing more businesses in the industry getting banked every day,” said Aaron Smith, executive director of the National Cannabis Industry Association, a trade group. Despite the legal risk involved in serving the cannabis industry, almost 400 banks and credit unions now do, according to the U.S. Treasury — a number that has more than tripled since 2014.

The states that have passed legal adult medical and recreational marijuana usage laws certainly aren't doing the same for heroin. Classifying marijuana as a Schedule 1 drug - no accepted medical use - is, at best, an alternative fact not supported by scientific evidence. Conflating marijuana use with opioid addiction, as Sessions sometimes does, is equally farcical.

But despite all his bluster, Sessions can't stop this money making, tax raising gravy train. Like excise taxes on alcohol and tobacco, the federal government will want its cut soon enough. For now, this is just another unforced error and a waste of my tax dollars.
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by SnoBrdr »

Coydog wrote:In Leary v US, Scotus found the MTA required self-incrimination, thus violating the 5th Amendment. In other words, the MTA was unconstitutional. Regardless, it hasn't been the law for almost 50 years.

If there is money to be made, businesses will innovate:

Why It’s Getting Easier For Marijuana Companies To Open Bank Accounts
“We’re definitely seeing more businesses in the industry getting banked every day,” said Aaron Smith, executive director of the National Cannabis Industry Association, a trade group. Despite the legal risk involved in serving the cannabis industry, almost 400 banks and credit unions now do, according to the U.S. Treasury — a number that has more than tripled since 2014.

The states that have passed legal adult medical and recreational marijuana usage laws certainly aren't doing the same for heroin. Classifying marijuana as a Schedule 1 drug - no accepted medical use - is, at best, an alternative fact not supported by scientific evidence. Conflating marijuana use with opioid addiction, as Sessions sometimes does, is equally farcical.

But despite all his bluster, Sessions can't stop this money making, tax raising gravy train. Like excise taxes on alcohol and tobacco, the federal government will want its cut soon enough. For now, this is just another unforced error and a waste of my tax dollars.
I don't disagree but as of today, the law is the law.

You don't like it, change it, just don't ignore it like others have chosen to do.
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by Mister Moose »

Coydog wrote:

The states that have passed legal adult medical and recreational marijuana usage laws certainly aren't doing the same for heroin. Classifying marijuana as a Schedule 1 drug - no accepted medical use - is, at best, an alternative fact not supported by scientific evidence. Conflating marijuana use with opioid addiction, as Sessions sometimes does, is equally farcical.

Are you saying there are zero cases of a marijuana user that goes on to experiment with harder drugs? Marijuana is not single faceted. So your job (royal you) is to educate Sessions and the rest of the Anti coalition. Takes time, but it will happen.
Coydog wrote: But despite all his bluster, Sessions can't stop this money making, tax raising gravy train. Like excise taxes on alcohol and tobacco, the federal government will want its cut soon enough. For now, this is just another unforced error and a waste of my tax dollars.
Concern for wasting tax dollars...!!! What's next, cutting unproductive regulations?
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Re: NSR AG Sessions plans to end the fun

Post by Bubba »

Mister Moose wrote:

Are you saying there are zero cases of a marijuana user that goes on to experiment with harder drugs?
Did you know that virtually all users of hard drugs started on milk? Let's ban that as a gateway substance. :wink:
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