Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

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Kpdemello
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Kpdemello »

boston_e wrote:Oprah 2020 sounds as dumb as Trump 2016.

Can the country really be moving in a direction where the population thinks a reality star makes for a good presidential candidate?
Yeah, it's already happened. We're there.
Mister Moose wrote:Why not? After all, a surveyor worked out pretty well.

You need far more than a profession to evaluate a candidate. Most have been legislators, but there's been several who were not.
While I appreciate that technically you don't need to have been in any particular profession to be President, it is kind of an important job and I'd prefer to see somebody that has actually done something requiring some level of management or executive skill. While I think Trump was woefully underqualified and radically unfit for the job, he at least has run and managed major businesses. What the f*** has Oprah done?

As to a surveyor as president, I'm not sure if you're talking about Washington or Lincoln, but in either case they both had additional significant experience like being a lawyer, running a campaign for high office, and being like, general of an army. Also, it's not 1860 and I think things have gotten a bit more complex since then.
Dr. NO
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Dr. NO »

Kpdemello wrote:
boston_e wrote:Oprah 2020 sounds as dumb as Trump 2016.

Can the country really be moving in a direction where the population thinks a reality star makes for a good presidential candidate?
Yeah, it's already happened. We're there.
Mister Moose wrote:Why not? After all, a surveyor worked out pretty well.

You need far more than a profession to evaluate a candidate. Most have been legislators, but there's been several who were not.
While I appreciate that technically you don't need to have been in any particular profession to be President, it is kind of an important job and I'd prefer to see somebody that has actually done something requiring some level of management or executive skill. While I think Trump was woefully underqualified and radically unfit for the job, he at least has run and managed major businesses. What the f*** has Oprah done?

As to a surveyor as president, I'm not sure if you're talking about Washington or Lincoln, but in either case they both had additional significant experience like being a lawyer, running a campaign for high office, and being like, general of an army. Also, it's not 1860 and I think things have gotten a bit more complex since then.
Several Presidents made a living from Surveying, Washington and Lincoln included. Jefferson was also successful in this employment and I'm sure there are more who either dabbled in it or actually made a living from it before going into a political career.
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Mister Moose
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Mister Moose »

Kpdemello wrote: Also, it's not 1860 and I think things have gotten a bit more complex since then.
Right. Fighting wars on several fronts, dealing with loyalists leaving the country, spies in the General's ranks, the country splitting in half, writing the Constitution such that it would be ratified in all 47 colonies, it was all so simpler then. I bet you think something like firing a cannon is simple, right? Certainly not as complex as, say, texting.
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Kpdemello
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Kpdemello »

Dude, seriously?

Regardless of whether you think things haven't gotten more complicated since 1860 (ha!) - Lincoln was a lawyer, Washington was a general, and Jefferson was secretary of state, a legislator, and a host of other important things before becoming president. All of them had far more relevant experience than Oprah had, and arguably they all had more relevant experience than Trump did before he became President.

People bitched about Obama's lack of experience and he was a lawyer for the better part of a decade, then a state legislator, and then a Senator. Oprah hasn't even held public office at the local level, and what the hell does she know about government and legislation?

Again, I prefer to have the person running the largest governmental organization in the world to have a little more experience than, "Well I hosted a TV talk show for a while."
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Mister Moose »

Kpdemello wrote:Dude, seriously?

Regardless of whether you think things haven't gotten more complicated since 1860 (ha!) - Lincoln was a lawyer, Washington was a general, and Jefferson was secretary of state, a legislator, and a host of other important things before becoming president. All of them had far more relevant experience than Oprah had, and arguably they all had more relevant experience than Trump did before he became President.

People bitched about Obama's lack of experience and he was a lawyer for the better part of a decade, then a state legislator, and then a Senator. Oprah hasn't even held public office at the local level, and what the hell does she know about government and legislation?

Again, I prefer to have the person running the largest governmental organization in the world to have a little more experience than, "Well I hosted a TV talk show for a while."
Yes, seriously.

1) The fact that you think things have gotten more complex now vs 100 or 200 years ago shows your ignorance of history. Just because we have more technology doesn't make it more complex. The two are not related.
2) Lawyer, general and CEO businessman are professions. All have relevance in legislating, national defense, and leading the largest economy in the world.
3) Trump's business, media, and international experience is considerable. I'm not saying he equals Jefferson, but you can't toss Trump's experience and intellect out of hand either. His ability to see several moves ahead is well established.
4) The concept of a citizen run government, refreshed liberally, is not a bad one.
5) Obama was mostly a community organizer and professor with a law degree. He did have 7 years as a state senator, but his under 4 year national senate seat was not remarkable, and the later years consisted mostly of abstention votes and time spent running for president.
6) Oprah negotiated ownership starting with the national syndication of her talk show. While her initial success could be declared a windfall of mere looks, voice and personality, she went on to run her own empire. She has launched numerous businesses and ideas. From Wiki: "Winfrey initiated "Oprah's Child Predator Watch List", through her show and website, to help track down accused child molesters. Within the first 48 hours, two of the featured men were captured.[77]" She has established she is a shrewd and visionary business woman.
7) The President does not run congress nor write legislation nor render judgments at the high court. I haven't seen a comparison of size of the executive to the legislative, but you are saying the executive is larger? While the Presidency has the most concentrated power, the role of the President is not unchecked or unassisted.
8 ) To paint Oprah as only a talk show host is to grossly underestimate her and her numerous companies and ventures.

All that said, I am not a supporter of Oprah as President. But I do have an open mind and say let her run if she wants. Let her compete in the arena of ideas against those with more legislative experience. That is the best measure.
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Kpdemello
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Kpdemello »

I agree that Oprah has some business savvy and some significant business experience, but I think it is minuscule in comparison to the kind of experience that say, the CEO of IBM might accrue. She has some experience running businesses in the entertainment industry sector. That in no way qualifies her to be President. I mean I think that is kind of ridiculous.

The problem I have with Trump isn't necessarily the depth of his experience but it's quality. He was a rich dandy that inherited daddy's company and hired people to invest and run it. His dearth of experience was betrayed by his comment that he thought the Presidency would be easier than his life running his business empire. That's basically because he didn't really run his business empire - he hired other people to do the heavy lifting while he golfed and oversaw the broad strokes. The Presidency requires a little more.

I also think people like Oprah and Trump, who have business experience but not much more, really aren't well qualified for the Presidency. To hold public office? Sure. Governor? Probably. But the Presidency is the highest office in the land. Whoever holds it should have some experience in government, be it legislative or executive. I don't think it's the kind of job that is conducive to on the job training.

I mean would you hire someone with no executive experience to run GM or IBM? Those are huge companies. Someone getting their first gig as CEO should start with a smaller company or should at least have served as a lower level executive at a major company. The same principle applies.

And I still think things are a lot harder now than they were in 1860. The budget is much larger, the government does a lot more, and the foreign policy crisis happen a lot faster and more often than they did back then. On top of that, today you have to deal with much bigger concepts like nuclear proliferation, an interdependent multinational economy, multiple long term overseas military commitments, etc. For example, in 1860 the president could afford to ignore things that happened in the middle east. Today, engagement in that ridiculous conflict by US presidents has been mandatory for every president of the last 30-40 years. How about problems in North Korea? Somalia? India/Pakistan? In 1860 most presidents probably never had occasion to even think about places so far away. Today it's part of the average day to day. There's no question it's a harder job today than it was in 1860.
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:I agree that Oprah has some business savvy and some significant business experience, but I think it is minuscule in comparison to the kind of experience that say, the CEO of IBM might accrue. She has some experience running businesses in the entertainment industry sector. That in no way qualifies her to be President. I mean I think that is kind of ridiculous.

The problem I have with Trump isn't necessarily the depth of his experience but it's quality. He was a rich dandy that inherited daddy's company and hired people to invest and run it. Trumps father died in 1999...Trump started his business career in the 70's...His dearth of experience was betrayed by his comment that he thought the Presidency would be easier than his life running his business empire. He never said that...That's basically because he didn't really run his business empire - he hired other people to do the heavy lifting while he golfed and oversaw the broad strokes. yeah ok...The Presidency requires a little more.

I also think people like Oprah and Trump, who have business experience but not much more, really aren't well qualified for the Presidency. To hold public office? Sure. Governor? Probably. But the Presidency is the highest office in the land. Whoever holds it should have some experience in government, be it legislative or executive. I don't think it's the kind of job that is conducive to on the job training.

I mean would you hire someone with no executive experience to run GM or IBM? Those are huge companies. Someone getting their first gig as CEO should start with a smaller company or should at least have served as a lower level executive at a major company. The same principle applies.

And I still think things are a lot harder now than they were in 1860. ignorance of history here...it's like saying all the "easy" inventions like the wheel have already been invented so it's harder to invent now......The budget is much larger, the government does a lot more, and the foreign policy crisis happen a lot faster and more often than they did back then. On top of that, today you have to deal with much bigger concepts like nuclear proliferation, an interdependent multinational economy, multiple long term overseas military commitments, etc. For example, in 1860 the president could afford to ignore things that happened in the middle east. Today, engagement in that ridiculous conflict by US presidents has been mandatory for every president of the last 30-40 years. How about problems in North Korea? Somalia? India/Pakistan? In 1860 most presidents probably never had occasion to even think about places so far away. Today it's part of the average day to day. There's no question it's a harder job today than it was in 1860.
but one example...
The First Barbary War (1801–1805), also known as the Tripolitanian War and the Barbary Coast War, was the first of two Barbary Wars between the United States, Sweden and the four North African states known collectively as the "Barbary States". Three of these were nominal provinces of the Ottoman Empire, but in practice autonomous: Tripoli, Algiers, and Tunis. The fourth was the independent Sultanate of Morocco.[4] The cause of the war was pirates from the Barbary States seizing American merchant ships and holding the crews for ransom, demanding the U.S. pay tribute to the Barbary rulers. United States President Thomas Jefferson refused to pay this tribute, in addition Sweden had been at war with the Tripolitans since 1800.[5]
it just might have been a little more involved than you imagine back then...with very limited and slow means of long distance/ international communication to boot...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... operations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

just the 1800's:
1800–1809[edit]
1801–1805: First Barbary War: a series of naval battles in the Mediterranean against the Kingdom of Tripoli, a quasi-independent state of the Ottoman Empire. Action was in response to the capture of numerous American ships by the infamous Barbary pirates. The federal government rejected the Tripolitan request for an annual tribute to guarantee safe passage, and an American naval blockade ensued. After the seizure of the USS Philadelphia, American forces under William Eaton invaded coastal cities. A peace treaty resulted in the payment of a ransom for the return of captured American soldiers and only temporarily eased hostilities.[1]

1806: Action in Spanish Mexico: The platoon under Captain Zebulon Pike invaded Spanish territory at the headwaters of the Rio Grande on orders from General James Wilkinson. He was made prisoner without resistance at a fort he constructed in present-day Colorado, taken to Mexico, and later released after seizure of his papers.[RL30172]

1806–1810: Action in the Gulf of Mexico: American gunboats operated from New Orleans against Spanish and French privateers off the Mississippi Delta, chiefly under Captain John Shaw and Master Commandant David Porter.[1]

1810–1819[edit]
1810: West Florida (Spanish territory): Governor William C. C. Claiborne of Louisiana, on orders of President James Madison, occupied with troops territory in dispute east of the Mississippi as far as the Pearl River, later the eastern boundary of Louisiana. He was authorized to seize as far east as the Perdido River.[RL30172]

1812: Amelia Island and other parts of east Florida, then under Spain: Temporary possession was authorized by President James Madison and by Congress, to prevent occupation by any other power; but possession was obtained by General George Mathews in so irregular a manner that his measures were disavowed by the President.[RL30172]

1812–1815: War of 1812: On June 18, 1812, the United States declared war against the United Kingdom. Among the issues leading to the war were British impressment of American sailors into the Royal Navy, interception of neutral ships and blockades of the United States during British hostilities with France. [RL30172]

1815:Battle of New Orleans: On January 15, 1815, General Andrew Jackson went to New Orleans to stop the British from attacking them from the back. They hide and start shooting the British and win,even though the war of 1812 already ended. But it did boost Americans pride.

1813: West Florida (Spanish territory): On authority given by Congress, General Wilkinson seized Mobile Bay in April with 600 soldiers. A small Spanish garrison gave way. Thus U.S. troops advanced into disputed territory to the Perdido River, as projected in 1810. No fighting.[RL30172]

1813–1814: Marquesas Islands (French Polynesia): U.S. forces built a fort on the island of Nuku Hiva to protect three prize ships which had been captured from the British.[RL30172]

1814: Spanish Florida: General Andrew Jackson took Pensacola and drove out the British forces.[RL30172]

1814–1825: Caribbean: Engagements between pirates and American ships or squadrons took place repeatedly especially ashore and offshore about Cuba, Puerto Rico, Santo Domingo, and Yucatán. Three thousand pirate attacks on merchantmen were reported between 1815 and 1823. In 1822, Commodore James Biddle employed a squadron of two frigates, four sloops of war, two brigs, four schooners, and two gunboats in the West Indies.[RL30172]

1815: Algiers: The Second Barbary War was declared against the United States by the Dey of Algiers of the Barbary states, an act not reciprocated by the United States. Congress did authorize a military expedition by statute. A large fleet under Captain Stephen Decatur attacked Algiers and obtained indemnities.[RL30172]

1815: Tripoli: After securing an agreement from Algiers, Captain Decatur demonstrated with his squadron at Tunis and Tripoli, where he secured indemnities for offenses during the War of 1812.[RL30172]

1816: Spanish Florida: United States forces destroyed Negro Fort, which harbored fugitive slaves making raids into United States territory.[RL30172]

1816–1818: Spanish Florida – First Seminole War: The Seminole Indians, whose area was a haven for escaped slaves and border ruffians, were attacked by troops under General Jackson and General Edmund P. Gaines and pursued into northern Florida. Spanish posts were attacked and occupied, British citizens executed. In 1819 the Floridas were ceded to the United States.[RL30172]

1817: Amelia Island (Spanish territory off Florida): Under orders of President James Monroe, United States forces landed and expelled a group of smugglers, adventurers, and freebooters. This episode in Florida's history became known as the Amelia Island Affair.[RL30172]

1818: Oregon: The USS Ontario dispatched from Washington, which made a landing at the mouth of the Columbia River to assert US claims. Britain had conceded sovereignty but Russia and Spain asserted claims to the area.[RL30172] Subsequently, American and British claims to the Oregon Country were resolved with the Oregon Treaty of 1846.[RL30172]

1820–1829[edit]
1820–1823: Africa: Naval units raided the slave traffic pursuant to the 1819 act of Congress. [RL30172][Slave Traffic]

1822: Cuba: United States naval forces suppressing piracy landed on the northwest coast of Cuba and burned a pirate station.[RL30172]

1823: Cuba: Brief landings in pursuit of pirates occurred April 8 near Escondido; April 16 near Cayo Blanco; July 11 at Siquapa Bay; July 21 at Cape Cruz; and October 23 at Camrioca.[RL30172]

1824: Cuba: In October the USS Porpoise landed sailors near Matanzas in pursuit of pirates. This was during the cruise authorized in 1822.[RL30172]

1824: Puerto Rico (Spanish territory): Commodore David Porter with a landing party attacked the town of Fajardo which had sheltered pirates and insulted American naval officers. He landed with 200 men in November and forced an apology. Commodore Porter was later court-martialed for overstepping his powers.[RL30172]

1825: Cuba: In March cooperating American and British forces landed at Sagua La Grande to capture pirates.[RL30172]

1827: Greece:[2] In October and November, landing parties hunted pirates on the Mediterranean islands of Argentiere (Kimolos), Myconos, and Andros.[RL30172]

1830–1839[edit]
1831: Falkland Islands: Captain Silas Duncan of the USS Lexington attacked, looted and burned Puerto Soledad (then under the control of the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata). This was in response to the capture of three American sailing vessels which were detained after ignoring orders to stop depredation of local fishing resources without permission from the United Provinces government.[RL30172]

1832: Attack on Quallah Battoo: Sumatra, Indonesia – February 6 to 9, U.S. forces under Commodore John Downes aboard the frigate USS Potomac landed and stormed a fort to punish natives of the town of Quallah Battoo for plundering the American cargo ship Friendship.[RL30172]

1833: Argentina: October 31 to November 15, A force was sent ashore at Buenos Aires to protect the interests of the United States and other countries during an insurrection.[RL30172]

1835–1836: Peru: December 10, 1835 to January 24, 1836 and August 31 to December 7, 1836, Marines protected American interests in Callao and Lima during an attempted revolution.[RL30172]

1835–1842: Florida Territory: United States Navy supports the Army's efforts at quelling uprisings and attacks on civilians by Seminole Indians. Government's efforts to relocate the Seminoles to west of the Mississippi are hindered by 7 years of war.

1838: The Caroline affair on Navy Island, Canada: After the failure of the Upper Canada Rebellion of 1837 favoring Canadian democracy and independence from the British Empire; William Lyon Mackenzie and his rebels fled to Navy Island where they declared the Republic of Canada. American sympathizers sent supplies on the SS Caroline, which was intercepted by the British and set ablaze, after killing one American. It was falsely reported that dozens of Americans were killed as they were trapped on board, and American forces retaliated by burning a British steamer while it was in U.S. waters.

1838–1839: Sumatra (Indonesia): December 24, 1838 to January 4, 1839, A naval force landed to punish natives of the towns of Quallah Battoo and Muckie (Mukki) for depredations on American shipping.[RL30172]

1840–1849[edit]
1840: Fiji Islands: In July, naval forces landed to punish natives for attacking American exploring and surveying parties.[RL30172]

1841: McKean Island (Drummond Island/Taputenea), Gilbert Islands (Kingsmill Group), Pacific Ocean: A naval party landed to avenge the murder of a seaman by the natives.[RL30172]

1841: Samoa: On February 24, a naval party landed and burned towns after the murder of an American seaman on Upolu.[RL30172]

1842: Mexico: Commodore Thomas ap Catesby Jones, in command of a squadron long cruising off California, occupied Monterey, California, on October 19, believing war had come. He discovered peace, withdrew, and saluted. A similar incident occurred a week later at San Diego.[RL30172]

1843: China: Sailors and marines from the St. Louis were landed after a clash between Americans and Chinese at the trading post in Canton.[RL30172]

1843: Africa: From November 29 to December 16, four United States vessels demonstrated and landed various parties (one of 200 marines and sailors) to discourage piracy and the slave trade along the Ivory Coast, and to punish attacks by the natives on American seamen and shipping.[RL30172]

1844: Mexico: President Tyler deployed U.S. forces to protect Texas against Mexico, pending Senate approval of a treaty of annexation (which was later rejected). He defended his action against a Senate resolution of inquiry.[RL30172]

1846–1848: Mexican–American War: On May 13, 1846, the United States recognized the existence of a state of war with Mexico. After the annexation of Texas in 1845, the United States and Mexico failed to resolve a boundary dispute and President Polk said that it was necessary to deploy forces in Mexico to meet a threatened invasion.

The war ended with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, signed on February 2, 1848. The treaty gave the U.S. undisputed control of Texas, established the U.S.–Mexican border of the Rio Grande, and ceded to the United States the present-day states of California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Wyoming, and parts of Colorado. In return, Mexico received US$18,250,000 (equivalent to about $516,000,000 in 2017)[3] — less than half the amount the U.S. had attempted to offer Mexico for the land before the opening of hostilities.[RL30172]

1849: Smyrna (İzmir, Turkey): In July, a naval force gained release of an American seized by Austrian officials.[RL30172]

1850–1859[edit]
1851: Ottoman Empire: After a massacre of foreigners (including Americans) at Jaffa in January, a demonstration by the Mediterranean Squadron was ordered along the Turkish (Levantine) coast.[RL30172]

1851: Johanna Island (modern Anjouan, east of Africa): In August, forces from the U.S. sloop-of-war Dale exacted redress for the unlawful imprisonment of the captain of an American whaling brig.[RL30172]

1852–1853: Argentina: February 3 to 12, 1852; September 17, 1852 to April 1853: Marines were landed and maintained in Buenos Aires to protect American interests during a revolution.[RL30172]

1853: Nicaragua: March 11 to 13, US forces landed to protect American lives and interests during political disturbances.[RL30172]

1853–1854: Japan: Commodore Matthew Perry and his expedition made a display of force leading to the "opening of Japan".[RL30172]

1853–1854: Ryūkyū and Bonin Islands (Japan): Commodore Matthew Perry on three visits before going to Japan and while waiting for a reply from Japan made a naval demonstration, landing marines twice, and secured a coaling concession from the ruler of Naha on Okinawa; he also demonstrated in the Bonin Islands with the purpose of securing facilities for commerce.[RL30172]

1854: China: April 4 to June 17, American and English ships landed forces to protect American interests in and near Shanghai during Chinese civil strife.[RL30172]

1854: Nicaragua: On July 9–15, naval forces bombarded and burned San Juan del Norte (Greytown) to avenge an insult to the American Minister to Nicaragua.[RL30172]

1855: China: On May 19–21, U.S. forces protected American interests in Shanghai and, from August 3 to 5 fought pirates near Hong Kong.[RL30172]

1855: Fiji Islands: From September 12 to November 4, an American naval force landed to seek reparations for attacks on American residents and seamen.[RL30172]

1855: Uruguay: On November 25–29, United States and European naval forces landed to protect American interests during an attempted revolution in Montevideo.[RL30172]

1856: Panama, Republic of New Grenada: On September 19–22, U.S. forces landed to protect American interests during an insurrection.[RL30172]

1856: China: From October 22 to December 6, U.S. forces landed to protect American interests at Canton during hostilities between the British and the Chinese, and to avenge an assault upon an unarmed boat displaying the United States flag.[RL30172]

1857–1858: Utah War: The Utah War was a dispute between Mormon settlers in Utah Territory and the United States federal government. The Mormons and Washington each sought control over the government of the territory, with the national government victorious. The confrontation between the Mormon militia and the U.S. Army involved some destruction of property, but no actual battles between the contending military forces.

1857: Nicaragua: April to May, November to December. In May, Commander Charles Henry Davis of the United States Navy, with some marines, received the surrender of William Walker, self-proclaimed president of Nicaragua, who was losing control of the country to forces financed by his former business partner, Cornelius Vanderbilt, and protected his men from the retaliation of native allies who had been fighting Walker. In November and December of the same year United States vessels USS Saratoga, USS Wabash, and Fulton opposed another attempt of William Walker on Nicaragua. Commodore Hiram Paulding's act of landing marines and compelling the removal of Walker to the United States, was tacitly disavowed by Secretary of State Lewis Cass, and Paulding was forced into retirement.[RL30172]

1858: Uruguay: From January 2 to 27, forces from two United States warships landed to protect American property during a revolution in Montevideo.[RL30172]

1858: Fiji Islands: From October 6 to 16, a marine expedition with the USS Vandalia killed 14 natives and burned 115 huts in retaliation for the murder of two American citizens at Waya.[RL30172] [Vandalia 1] [Vandalia 2]

1858–1859: Ottoman Empire:AKA the middle east The Secretary of State requested a display of naval force along the Levant after a massacre of Americans at Jaffa and mistreatment elsewhere "to remind the authorities (of the Ottoman Empire) of the power of the United States."[RL30172]

1859: Paraguay: Congress authorized a naval squadron to seek redress for an attack on a naval vessel in the Paraná River during 1855. Apologies were made after a large display of force.[RL30172]

1859: Mexico: Two hundred United States soldiers crossed the Rio Grande in pursuit of the Mexican nationalist Juan Cortina.[RL30172] [1859 Mexico]

1859: China: From July 31 to August 2, a naval force landed to protect American interests in Shanghai.[RL30172]

1860–1869[edit]
1860: Angola, Portuguese West Africa: On March 1, American residents at Kissembo called upon American and British ships to protect lives and property during problems with natives.[RL30172]

1860: Colombia, Bay of Panama: From September 27 to October 8, naval forces landed to protect American interests during a revolution.[RL30172]

1861–1865: American Civil War: A major war between the United States (the Union) and eleven Southern states which declared that they had a right to secession and formed the Confederate States of America.

1863: Japan: July 16, Naval battle of Shimonoseki: The USS Wyoming retaliated against a firing on the American vessel Pembroke at Shimonoseki.[RL30172]

1864: Japan: From July 14 to August 3, naval forces protected the United States Minister to Japan when he visited Yedo to negotiate concerning some American claims against Japan, and to make his negotiations easier by impressing the Japanese with American power.[RL30172]

1864: Japan: From September 4 to 14, naval forces of the United States, Great Britain, France, and the Netherlands compelled Japan and the Prince of Nagato in particular to permit the Straits of Shimonoseki to be used by foreign shipping in accordance with treaties already signed.[RL30172]

1865: Panama: On March 9 and 10, US forces protected the lives and property of American residents during a revolution.[RL30172]

1865–1877: Southern United States – Reconstruction following the American Civil War: The South is divided into five Union occupation districts under the Reconstruction Act.

1866: Mexico: To protect American residents, General Sedgwick and 100 men in November obtained surrender of Matamoros, on the border state of Tamaulipas. After three days he was ordered by US Government to withdraw. His act was repudiated by the President.[RL30172]

1866: China: From June 20 to July 7, US forces punished an assault on the American consul at Newchwang.[RL30172]

1867: Nicaragua: Marines occupied Managua and Leon.

1867: Formosa (island of Taiwan): On June 13, a naval force landed and burned a number of huts to punish the murder of the crew of a wrecked American vessel.

1868: Japan (Osaka, Hiolo, Nagasaki, Yokohama, and Negata): February 4 to 8, April 4 to May 12, June 12 and 13. US forces were landed to protect American interests during a civil war (Boshin War) in Japan.[RL30172]

1868: Uruguay: On February 7–8, and 19–26, US forces protected foreign residents and the customhouse during an insurrection at Montevideo.[RL30172]

1868: Colombia: In April, US forces protected passengers and treasure in transit at Aspinwall during the absence of local police or troops on the occasion of the death of the President of Colombia.[RL30172]

1870–1879[edit]
1870: Battle of Boca Teacapan: On June 17 and 18, US forces destroyed the pirate ship Forward, which had been run aground about 40 miles up the Teacapan Estuary in Mexico.[RL30172]

1870: Kingdom of Hawaii: On September 21, US forces placed the American flag at half-mast upon the death of Queen Kalama, when the American consul at Honolulu would not assume responsibility for so doing.[RL30172]

1872: Korea: Shinmiyangyo – June 10 to 12, A US naval force attacked and captured five forts to force stalled negotiations on trade agreements and to punish natives for depredations on Americans, particularly for executing the crew of the General Sherman and burning the schooner (which in turn happened because the crew had stolen food and kidnapped a Korean official), and for later firing on other American small boats taking soundings up the Salee River. [RL30172]

1873: Colombia (Bay of Panama): May 7 to 22, September 23 to October 9. U.S. forces protected American interests during hostilities between local groups over control of the government of the State of Panama.[RL30172]

1873–1896: Mexico: United States troops crossed the Mexican border repeatedly in pursuit of cattle thieves and other brigands.[RL30172]

1874: Honolulu Courthouse Riot: From February 12 to 20, detachments from American vessels were landed to protect the interests of Americans living in the Kingdom of Hawaii during the coronation of a new king.[RL30172]

1876: Mexico: On May 18, an American force was landed to police the town of Matamoros, Mexico, temporarily while it was without other government.[RL30172]

1878: Lincoln County, New Mexico: On July 15–19, during the Battle of Lincoln (1878) (part of the Lincoln County War) 150 cavalry-men arrived from Fort Stanton, under the command of Lieutenant George Smith (later Colonel Nathan Dudley) to assist the Murphy-Dolan Faction in attacking the Lincoln County Regulators vigilante group. 5 dead, 8–28 wounded.[citation needed]

1880–1889[edit]
1882: Egyptian Expedition: July 14 to 18, American forces landed to protect American interests during warfare between British and Egyptians and looting of the city of Alexandria by Arabs.[RL30172]

1885: Panama (Colón): January 18 and 19, US forces were used to guard the valuables in transit over the Panama Railroad, and the safes and vaults of the company during revolutionary activity. In March, April, and May in the cities of Colón and Panama, the forces helped reestablish freedom of transit during revolutionary activity (see Burning of Colón).[RL30172]

1888: Korea: June, A naval force was sent ashore to protect American residents in Seoul during unsettled political conditions, when an outbreak of the populace was expected.[RL30172]

1888: Haiti: December 20, A display of force persuaded the Haitian Government to give up an American steamer which had been seized on the charge of breach of blockade.[RL30172]

1888–1889: Samoan crisis; First Samoan Civil War; Second Samoan Civil War: November 14, 1888 to March 20, 1889, US forces were landed to protect American citizens and the consulate during a native civil war.[RL30172]

1889: Kingdom of Hawaii: July 30 and 31, US forces at Honolulu protected the interests of Americans living in Hawaii during an American led revolution.[RL30172]

1890–1899[edit]
1890: Argentina: A naval party landed to protect US consulate and legation in Buenos Aires.[RL30172]

1890: South Dakota: On December 29, soldiers of the US Army 7th Cavalry killed 178 Sioux Amerindians following an incident over a disarmament-inspection at a Lakota Sioux encampment near Wounded Knee Creek. 89 other Amerinds were injured, 150 were reported missing; Army casualties were 25 killed, 39 wounded.[citation needed]

1891: Haiti: US forces sought to protect American lives and property on Navassa Island.[RL30172]

1891: Bering Sea Anti-Poaching Operations: July 2 to October 5, Naval forces sought to stop seal poaching.[RL30172]

1891: Itata Incident: US and European naval forces intercepted and detained a shipment of arms sent to the Congressionalist forces in the Chilean Civil War.

1891: Chile: August 28 to 30, US forces protected the American consulate and the women and children who had taken refuge in it during a revolution in Valparaíso.[RL30172]

1892: Homestead Strike: On July 6, striking miners attacked Pinkerton National Detective Agency agents attempting to break the strike by bringing non-union workers to the mine. 6,000 Pennsylvania state militiamen were sent to reinstate law and order. 16 dead, 27–47 wounded

1892: Wyoming: Johnson County War April 11 to 13, U.S. Cavalry sent to break up a gun battle at the TA Ranch.

1893: Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom: January 16 to April 1, Marines landed in Hawaii, ostensibly to protect American lives and property, but many believed actually to promote a provisional government under Sanford B. Dole. This action was disavowed by President Cleveland, and the United States apologized in 1993.[RL30172]

1894: Nicaragua: July 6 to August 7, US forces sought to protect American interests at Bluefields following a revolution.[RL30172]

1894–1895: China: Marines were stationed at Tientsin and penetrated to Peking for protection purposes during the First Sino-Japanese War.[RL30172]

1894–1895: China: A naval vessel was beached and used as a fort at Newchwang for protection of American nationals.[RL30172]

1894–1896: Korea: July 24, 1894 to April 3, 1896, A guard of marines was sent to protect the American legation and American lives and interests at Seoul during and following the Sino-Japanese War.[RL30172]

1895: Colombia: March 8 and 9, US forces protected American interests during an attack on the town of Bocas del Toro by a bandit chieftain.[RL30172]

1896: Nicaragua: May 2 to 4, US forces protected American interests in Corinto during political unrest.[RL30172]

1898: Nicaragua: February 7 and 8, US forces protected American lives and property at San Juan del Sur.[RL30172]

1898: Spanish–American War: On April 25, 1898, the United States declared war with Spain, ostensibly aligned with Cuban rebels. The war followed a Cuban insurrection, the Cuban War of Independence against Spanish rule and the sinking of the USS Maine in the harbor at Havana.[RL30172]

1898–1899: Samoa: Second Samoan Civil War, a conflict that reached a head in 1898 when Germany, the United Kingdom, and the United States were locked in dispute over who should have control over the Samoan island chain.

1898–1899: China: November 5, 1898 to March 15, 1899, US forces provided a guard for the legation at Peking and the consulate at Tientsin during contest between the Dowager Empress and her son.[RL30172]

1899: Nicaragua: American and British naval forces were landed to protect national interests at San Juan del Norte, February 22 to March 5, and at Bluefields a few weeks later in connection with the insurrection of Gen. Juan P. Reyes.[RL30172]

1899–1913: Philippine Islands: Philippine–American War, US forces protected American interests following the war with Spain, defeating Filipino revolutionaries seeking immediate national independence.[RL30172] The U.S. government declared the "insurgency" officially over in 1902, when the Filipino leadership generally accepted American rule. Skirmishes between government troops and armed groups lasted until 1913, and some historians consider these unofficial extensions of the war.[4]

pretty sure they had to think about "far away places" a lot...
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Kpdemello
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Kpdemello »

Ok I'll concede about the foreign policy stuff, mostly because I don't feel like addressing all of that line by line, but I think you're insane if you think the job isn't harder in 2018 than it was in 1860.

As to trump, your'e delusional.
As to his inheritance, his dad was worth $200 mil when he died. What do you suppose happened to that money, hmm? And numerous sources (including Trump himself, who claims he got at least $1 mil) indicate that Trump got a big chunk of it long before his father died.

https://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9248963/do ... index-fund" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.politifact.com/florida/artic ... 0-million/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... d59b9fffa4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
madhatter
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:Ok I'll concede about the foreign policy stuff, mostly because I don't feel like addressing all of that line by line, but I think you're insane if you think the job isn't harder in 2018 than it was in 1860.

As to trump, your'e delusional.
As to his inheritance, his dad was worth $200 mil when he died. What do you suppose happened to that money, hmm? And numerous sources (including Trump himself, who claims he got at least $1 mil) indicate that Trump got a big chunk of it long before his father died.

https://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9248963/do ... index-fund" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.politifact.com/florida/artic ... 0-million/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... d59b9fffa4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
here's the entire article

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN17U0CA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

he talks about the constraints on his life not that he didn't think the job would be hard...


he talks about how he misses driving



how he has less privacy
Trump, who said he was accustomed to not having privacy in his “old life,” expressed surprise at how little he had now. And he made clear he was still getting used to having 24-hour Secret Service protection and its accompanying constraints.
“You’re really into your own little cocoon, because you have such massive protection that you really can’t go anywhere,” he said.

When the president leaves the White House, it is usually in a limousine or an SUV.

He said he missed being behind the wheel himself.


“I like to drive,” he said. “I can’t drive any more.”
none of it even remotely supports yer politics of envy sore loser hate comment here:
The problem I have with Trump isn't necessarily the depth of his experience but it's quality. He was a rich dandy that inherited daddy's company and hired people to invest and run it. His dearth of experience was betrayed by his comment that he thought the Presidency would be easier than his life running his business empire. That's basically because he didn't really run his business empire - he hired other people to do the heavy lifting while he golfed and oversaw the broad strokes. The Presidency requires a little more.
yer ability to comprehend is nil...enjoy yer hate...
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Kpdemello »

He literally said that being President was more work than in his previous life. I copied and pasted the quote. Yet, in your world, he didn't say it just because he also said a bunch of other things. That makes no sense.

Here's exactly what we're talking about:
me wrote:His dearth of experience was betrayed by his comment that he thought the Presidency would be easier than his life running his business empire.
madhatter wrote:He never said that...
Trump wrote:“This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier.”
I mean it's black and white. He said what he said. You're 100% wrong, but your bias refuses to let you accept it. How can I engage in a conversation with someone who so blatantly denies reality?

I mean just look at Trump's own words. He admitted receiving a loan for a million dollars from his dad when he got started. He acts like that is nothing. Do you know how many inexperienced business people can secure a loan for a million dollars to start a real estate company? It's pretty damned close to zero. It's hard to secure a loan in that amount for VERY experienced business people. Who knows how much other help he got from his multi-millionaire daddy along the way, yet somehow people act like he is a self made man. Ridiculous. He was born rich. Maybe he did pretty well in business, but he also had multiple colossal failures. Lets not pretend he's some business genius.
madhatter
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:He literally said that being President was more work than in his previous life. I copied and pasted the quote. Yet, in your world, he didn't say it just because he also said a bunch of other things. it's called reading COMPREHENSIONThat makes no sense.to you, which is why you make no sense to anyone else....

Here's exactly what we're talking about:
me wrote:His dearth of experience was betrayed by his comment that he thought the Presidency would be easier than his life running his business empire.
madhatter wrote:He never said that...
Trump wrote:“This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier.”
I mean it's black and white. He said what he said. You're 100% wrong, but your bias refuses to let you accept it. How can I engage in a conversation with someone who so blatantly denies reality?

I mean just look at Trump's own words. He admitted receiving a loan for a million dollars from his dad when he got started. He acts like that is nothing. Do you know how many inexperienced business people can secure a loan for a million dollars to start a real estate company? It's pretty damned close to zero. It's hard to secure a loan in that amount for VERY experienced business people. Who knows how much other help he got from his multi-millionaire daddy along the way, yet somehow people act like he is a self made man. Ridiculous. He was born rich. Maybe he did pretty well in business, but he also had multiple colossal failures. Lets not pretend he's some business genius.more envy, seems to be your most prominent attribute...
comprehension and context are lost on you...

the rest of your politics are juvenile shortsighted unrealistic impossibilities...your estate tax idea alone shows a complete lack of understanding of reality...

pay at the end? hahhaha how fvcking dumb can you be? NO ONE would ever have ANYTHING left at the end...
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Kpdemello »

madhatter wrote:comprehension and context are lost on you...
They must be. Because when I read the article, the quote was pulled out and there was no context. Other statements were made in the article but none provided context to Trump's statement about how hard the presidency was compared to his previous life. Again, I think you see what you want to see and nothing else.

madhatter wrote:the rest of your politics are juvenile shortsighted unrealistic impossibilities...your estate tax idea alone shows a complete lack of understanding of reality...

pay at the end? hahhaha how fvcking dumb can you be? NO ONE would ever have ANYTHING left at the end...
Name calling is the last refuge of someone who has run out of logical argument. Ironically, that's a tactic Trump employs regularly.
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:
madhatter wrote:comprehension and context are lost on you...
They must be. Because when I read the article, the quote was pulled out and there was no context. Other statements were made in the article but none provided context to Trump's statement about how hard the presidency was compared to his previous life. Again, I think you see what you want to see and nothing else.

madhatter wrote:the rest of your politics are juvenile shortsighted unrealistic impossibilities...your estate tax idea alone shows a complete lack of understanding of reality...

pay at the end? hahhaha how fvcking dumb can you be? NO ONE would ever have ANYTHING left at the end...
Name calling is the last refuge of someone who has run out of logical argument. Ironically, that's a tactic Trump employs regularly.
you are impossible to reason with, thus it;s become impossible to find any reason for continuing with you...your entire premise is based on your feelings, your opinion and preconceived bias...if you can;t understand from context what trump was saying in regards to the time constraints on his life that make everything he does more cumbersome and difficult compared to his previous life, there's not much you actually can understand...

same with your imbecilic tax plan...you just keep spouting the same crap over and over again despite the fact that any thinking person can easily see that none of you tax "ideas" are even remotely workable in the real world...but that doesn't stop you from insisting they are cutting edge brilliant...
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Kpdemello »

Feelings, what feelings? You've continually accused me of envy but I'm not sure where you get that from. Like above, when I was talking about Trump inheriting money or getting loans from his dad, my point was not, "omg that's unfair!" but rather the fact that Trump is not a self made man. He had an easy life because he had things handed to him. That speaks to his lack of experience and his qualifications, not to some kind of envy on my part. It's a logical not emotional argument.
madhatter wrote:same with your imbecilic tax plan...you just keep spouting the same crap over and over again despite the fact that any thinking person can easily see that none of you tax "ideas" are even remotely workable in the real world...but that doesn't stop you from insisting they are cutting edge brilliant...
Haha... not sure what tax plan you're talking about? Nor did I ever say that my ideas were cutting edge or brilliant? In fact they're not my ideas at all, just long standing concepts that are apparently new to you. I've discussed tax policy quite a bit but most of what I am talking about is currently in implementation (i.e. there is currently an estate tax at both federal and state levels, there's currently a graduated income tax, etc). So... not sure how they're not workable in the real world since most real world governments currently use them.

But, again, this is politics in America (I guess everywhere, right?) and this is why you don't discuss politics in polite company. Sooner or later one person tells the other he is an imbecile.
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Re: Leftists frothing over Oprah 2020

Post by Bubba »

Kpdemello wrote:Feelings, what feelings? You've continually accused me of envy but I'm not sure where you get that from. Like above, when I was talking about Trump inheriting money or getting loans from his dad, my point was not, "omg that's unfair!" but rather the fact that Trump is not a self made man. He had an easy life because he had things handed to him. That speaks to his lack of experience and his qualifications, not to some kind of envy on my part. It's a logical not emotional argument.
madhatter wrote:same with your imbecilic tax plan...you just keep spouting the same crap over and over again despite the fact that any thinking person can easily see that none of you tax "ideas" are even remotely workable in the real world...but that doesn't stop you from insisting they are cutting edge brilliant...
Haha... not sure what tax plan you're talking about? Nor did I ever say that my ideas were cutting edge or brilliant? In fact they're not my ideas at all, just long standing concepts that are apparently new to you. I've discussed tax policy quite a bit but most of what I am talking about is currently in implementation (i.e. there is currently an estate tax at both federal and state levels, there's currently a graduated income tax, etc). So... not sure how they're not workable in the real world since most real world governments currently use them.

But, again, this is politics in America (I guess everywhere, right?) and this is why you don't discuss politics in polite company. Sooner or later one person tells the other he is an imbecile.
You consider KZone "polite company"???? :lol:
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