How the imams terrorized an airliner

[BigKahuna13]

Would anyone have acted differently if 6 Rabbis were saying morning prayers loudly in Hebrew before boarding, then boarded the aircraft and acted in a similar fashion? What about 6 Italian Catholic priests praying, commenting to one another in Italian, then boarding and doing the same things as the imams? How about 6 plain looking American evangelical Christians praying, then boarding and doing the same thing? How about 6 Oklahomans, Texans or Montanans (is that a word?) who looked like Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? How about 6 skiers and riders praying to Ullr?

The Rabbis and Priests I can see, maybe even the ministers. DEFINITELY THE SKIIERS.

But, taking it to the rediculous is a stretch, don't you think?

Had they been together and assigned seats together it might have been better off. Had they simply sat in their assigned seats, nothing might have happened. Moving to stategic seating that they were not assigned to, especially in 1st class changes everything.

You wouldn't happen to have a box cutter handy would you?

My point is simply that their actions were suspicious but only because of their obvious religion. If 6 other people, non-Muslims, had done the same thing it would not have aroused the same suspicion.

Maybe. Aviation types have generally been pretty paranoid lately. Though, no doubt the fact that they're Muslim didn't help them any.

[Bubba]

Would anyone have acted differently if 6 Rabbis were saying morning prayers loudly in Hebrew before boarding, then boarded the aircraft and acted in a similar fashion? What about 6 Italian Catholic priests praying, commenting to one another in Italian, then boarding and doing the same things as the imams? How about 6 plain looking American evangelical Christians praying, then boarding and doing the same thing? How about 6 Oklahomans, Texans or Montanans (is that a word?) who looked like Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? How about 6 skiers and riders praying to Ullr?

The Rabbis and Priests I can see, maybe even the ministers. DEFINITELY THE SKIIERS.

But, taking it to the rediculous is a stretch, don't you think?

Had they been together and assigned seats together it might have been better off. Had they simply sat in their assigned seats, nothing might have happened. Moving to stategic seating that they were not assigned to, especially in 1st class changes everything.

You wouldn't happen to have a box cutter handy would you?

My point is simply that their actions were suspicious but only because of their obvious religion. If 6 other people, non-Muslims, had done the same thing it would not have aroused the same suspicion.

Maybe. Aviation types have generally been pretty paranoid lately. Though, no doubt the fact that they're Muslim didn't help them any.

I sincerely doubt that 6 Rabbis or priests would have been challenged and removed, although they might have raised eyebrows. And I also doubt that if 5 friends and I did the same thing, we'd be asked to get off. But, maybe so...I would hope there'd be some consistency and I'd surely like to believe so.

[XtremeJibber2001]

I would hope there'd be some consistency and I'd surely like to believe so.

I certainly agree with that!

[KBL Ed]

C'mon. If a group of terrorists are going to blow up an airplane, do you honestly think they'll be praying together and chanting "Allah" in the boarding area? Bad call.

I'm glad you're not an Air Marshall All one would need to do is pray loudly and I get a free pass on the airplane, then BOOM!

So do I honestly think they'll be chanting something? It's possible, they don't rule anything out, so why should we.

I never said anything about giving them a free pass. In fact, I most certainly would eye them up more carefully. But, based only the facts given, to take them away in handcuffs? That was a bit much.

[XtremeJibber2001]

But, based only the facts given, to take them away in handcuffs? That was a bit much.

This reminds me of a funny story, kind of.

But, first of all, the men refused to get off the plane, unless you have meat-head friends like me, handcuffs are needed.

The funny story happened when I was 15 and lifeguarding at a local pool. If problems occurred and a patron was asked to leave and refused, the police were to be called.

In one case, a patron was actually arrested (it wasn't my pool luckily), but in all accounts the patrons were asked to leave for breaking rules or something minor and they made a scene and the police were called.

It's funny how many times the police take action in minor disgruntlements, but in this case, it's not the least bit surprising considering some of the things they allegedly did.

[Dr. NO]

But, based only the facts given, to take them away in handcuffs? That was a bit much.

This reminds me of a funny story, kind of.

But, first of all, the men refused to get off the plane, unless you have meat-head friends like me, handcuffs are needed.

The funny story happened when I was 15 and lifeguarding at a local pool. If problems occurred and a patron was asked to leave and refused, the police were to be called.

In one case, a patron was actually arrested (it wasn't my pool luckily), but in all accounts the patrons were asked to leave for breaking rules or something minor and they made a scene and the police were called.

It's funny how many times the police take action in minor disgruntlements, but in this case, it's not the least bit surprising considering some of the things they allegedly did.

Seems odd to you or I, but to the cops it is safety. You have an irate patron who was asked, then told to leave. They refuse and make a fuss. Rather than take a chance of things excallating, they cuff em and bring em to the car. All parties are protected and nobody gets hurt. Patron get very embarassed, but usually quiets down quickly once the cuffs are on.

[BigKahuna13]

Would anyone have acted differently if 6 Rabbis were saying morning prayers loudly in Hebrew before boarding, then boarded the aircraft and acted in a similar fashion? What about 6 Italian Catholic priests praying, commenting to one another in Italian, then boarding and doing the same things as the imams? How about 6 plain looking American evangelical Christians praying, then boarding and doing the same thing? How about 6 Oklahomans, Texans or Montanans (is that a word?) who looked like Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? How about 6 skiers and riders praying to Ullr?

The Rabbis and Priests I can see, maybe even the ministers. DEFINITELY THE SKIIERS.

But, taking it to the rediculous is a stretch, don't you think?

Had they been together and assigned seats together it might have been better off. Had they simply sat in their assigned seats, nothing might have happened. Moving to stategic seating that they were not assigned to, especially in 1st class changes everything.

You wouldn't happen to have a box cutter handy would you?

My point is simply that their actions were suspicious but only because of their obvious religion. If 6 other people, non-Muslims, had done the same thing it would not have aroused the same suspicion.

Maybe. Aviation types have generally been pretty paranoid lately. Though, no doubt the fact that they're Muslim didn't help them any.

I sincerely doubt that 6 Rabbis or priests would have been challenged and removed, although they might have raised eyebrows. And I also doubt that if 5 friends and I did the same thing, we'd be asked to get off. But, maybe so...I would hope there'd be some consistency and I'd surely like to believe so.

I'd never let you on the plane in the first place :).

A woman recently got tossed off a plane for breastfeeding her infant of all things. I wouldn't put anything past airline people.....

I never said anything about giving them a free pass. In fact, I most certainly would eye them up more carefully. But, based only the facts given, to take them away in handcuffs? That was a bit much.

At what point were they cuffed? I can see cuffing them if they refused to voluntarily leave the plane. Otherwise I agree cuffing was probably excessive

[XtremeJibber2001]

At what point were they cuffed? I can see cuffing them if they refused to voluntarily leave the plane. Otherwise I agree cuffing was probably excessive

A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."
But the imams who were escorted off the flight in handcuffs say they were merely praying before the 6:30 p.m. flight on Nov. 20

Somewhere in both articles (CNN & WT) it states that the men refused to get off the jet willingly.

[Cityskier]

At what point were they cuffed? I can see cuffing them if they refused to voluntarily leave the plane. Otherwise I agree cuffing was probably excessive

A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."
But the imams who were escorted off the flight in handcuffs say they were merely praying before the 6:30 p.m. flight on Nov. 20

Somewhere in both articles (CNN & WT) it states that the men refused to get off the jet willingly.

Some people are less willing to abdicate their freedom that you are. They paid their fare, exercised their freedom of speech, and tried to go home. The passed airport security and fell victim to ignorance. These are proud times for the land of the free.

[XtremeJibber2001]

At what point were they cuffed? I can see cuffing them if they refused to voluntarily leave the plane. Otherwise I agree cuffing was probably excessive

A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."
But the imams who were escorted off the flight in handcuffs say they were merely praying before the 6:30 p.m. flight on Nov. 20

Somewhere in both articles (CNN & WT) it states that the men refused to get off the jet willingly.

Some people are less willing to abdicate their freedom that you are. They paid their fare, exercised their freedom of speech, and tried to go home. The passed airport security and fell victim to ignorance. These are proud times for the land of the free.

The hi-jackers on 9/11 passed security too .....

[BigKahuna13]

At what point were they cuffed? I can see cuffing them if they refused to voluntarily leave the plane. Otherwise I agree cuffing was probably excessive

A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."
But the imams who were escorted off the flight in handcuffs say they were merely praying before the 6:30 p.m. flight on Nov. 20

Somewhere in both articles (CNN & WT) it states that the men refused to get off the jet willingly.

Some people are less willing to abdicate their freedom that you are. They paid their fare, exercised their freedom of speech, and tried to go home. The passed airport security and fell victim to ignorance. These are proud times for the land of the free.

May well have been ignorance on the part of airport security, although one has to wonder about the intelligence or motivations of people who act in the manner that these gentlemen did (I'm specifically referring to making "anti-American" statements just prior to boarding).

In any case it's really not a freedom issue. Paying your fare has never guaranteed passage. Captain has legal right and responsibility to remove anyone who's presence he deems detrimental to the safety of his flight. Man's word is essentially law (although subject to after the fact second guessing).