What the ????

[DMC]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/27/soldie ... index.html

Officer released from brig for 'scrounging'
28-year veteran said she would do it again
Monday, December 27, 2004 Posted: 9:09 PM EST (0209 GMT)

DAYTON, Ohio (AP) -- A former Ohio Army Reserve commander who was court-martialed for taking abandoned Army vehicles in Kuwait so her unit could carry out its mission in Iraq returned home Monday after serving a six-month sentence.

..rest at link....

[Dr. NO]

I believe she disobeyed a DIRECT order, but still sucks.

one of the Best scroungers in WW II in the pacific was non other than Richard Milhouse Nixon. Stories have it he would beg, borrow or steal anything he could to keep his unit supplied and operational. But as he said....

" I AM NOT A CROOK ! "

[DMC]

My Sister-In-Law took a load of crap from the Army for receiving clothes donated to kids from the US that were going to kids in Afgahnistan - she did it outside the "loop".. She was working on(Ortho) little kids that were land mine casualties... She couldnt put their lice infested clothes back on... But the had nothing else...
So she had a clothes drive at her kids school in Maryland... And my Brother found some space on a C130 and had them sent...

It just makes me mad... But I guess rules are rules...

[Pedro]

The army Lawyers are trying to hang everyone they can in order to please the media.

CNN is actually publishing stories about some really good dudes that i have worked with and for.

[Bubba]

60 Minutes did a really good piece two weeks ago on the courts martialing of several "scroungers" in Iraq and Kuwait, including an officer or NCO who received a dishonorable discharge, even saying that this type of activity in WW II and later was normal and even rewarded from time to time for showing initiative and resourcefulness. Since all of that story occurred prior to the recent flap over armored humvies, I have to believe it's an overzealous military rather than the military simply playing to the media as suggested by Pedro.

[tirolerpeter]

I believe she disobeyed a DIRECT order, but still sucks.

one of the Best scroungers in WW II in the pacific was non other than Richard Milhouse Nixon. Stories have it he would beg, borrow or steal anything he could to keep his unit supplied and operational. But as he said....

" I AM NOT A CROOK ! "

Dr. No... The closest Nixon ever got to the Pacific was once as a tourist who took ride on a bomber out on a routine recon. Take a look at the military experience of some other politicians and general big-mouths:


Democrats:

Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1! 968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist i! n 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,Purple Hearts.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53. < ?param 0000,0000,FFFF>* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.

Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. *
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze St! ars, and Soldier's Medal.< /B>
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received #311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.


Republicans -- and these are the guys sending people to war:

* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyle: did not serve.
* Tim Hutch! ison: did not serve.

* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.

* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard;
got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies! .
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not ! serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.!
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot back.)

[Bubba]

I believe she disobeyed a DIRECT order, but still sucks.

one of the Best scroungers in WW II in the pacific was non other than Richard Milhouse Nixon. Stories have it he would beg, borrow or steal anything he could to keep his unit supplied and operational. But as he said....

" I AM NOT A CROOK ! "

Dr. No... The closest Nixon ever got to the Pacific was once as a tourist who took ride on a bomber out on a routine recon. Take a look at the military experience of some other politicians and general big-mouths:


Democrats:

Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1! 968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist i! n 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,Purple Hearts.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53. < ?param 0000,0000,FFFF>* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.

Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. *
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze St! ars, and Soldier's Medal.< /B>
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received #311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.


Republicans -- and these are the guys sending people to war:

* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyle: did not serve.
* Tim Hutch! ison: did not serve.

* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.

* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard;
got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies! .
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not ! serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.!
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot back.)

I always love that comparison...take a list of Dems, most of whom served and compare it to a list of Republicans, most of whom did not serve. The better comparison would be a list of each who served and a list of each that did not serve.

Frankly, I don't care either way...I didn't serve. I protested the Vietnam War and did everything I could to avoid the draft. I don't care that Bill Clinton didn't serve. I don't care that Dan Quayle went into the Guard or the Reserves or whatever he did. I don't care that Bush went into the Reserves and may or may not have fully served his time. It doesn't matter...it's history...oh, and if it matters...

FDR didn't serve
Abe Lincoln didn't serve

There's one Democrat and one Republican, both of whom led us through major wars and effectively saved the country. See how much it matters?

[Pedro]

I concur, this is a weak comparison. You need to include everyone. I would first start with my representative in congress.
Tirol is your representative a Democrat?
Did he serve in the Military?
How about your senators? Hilary? Chuck?

[tirolerpeter]

You asked:

Congress: Tim Bishop (no military svc) He is however pushing legislation to help veterans with disability and pension benefits.
Senate: Chuck Schumer (no military svc)
Hillary Clinton (no military svc,..you needed to ask?)
All three are Democrats

[Pedro]

You asked:

Congress: Tim Bishop (no military svc) He is however pushing legislation to help veterans with disability and pension benefits.
Senate: Chuck Schumer (no military svc)
Hillary Clinton (no military svc,..you needed to ask?)
All three are Democrats

Obviously a leading question

Also just noticed that One of my senators made the List: Rick Santorum Republican, Pennsylvania. Did not serve.

Also just noted That they left off my other senator Arlen Spector, Republican Pennsylvania, Served as an Air Force Officer. I guess his service just wasn't good enough to make the list.

[CAPBOY]

I also noted Jo Lieberman is not on the list. I believe he is on the armed services committee. Don't think he served.

But what does it really matter? Clinton taught us it is ok to draft dodge so military experience is irrelevant just as smokin doobs is. Why are we having this discussion?

[Bill Clinton]

I also noted Jo Lieberman is not on the list. I believe he is on the armed services committee. Don't think he served.

But what does it really matter? Clinton taught us it is ok to draft dodge so military experience is irrelevant just as smokin doobs is. Why are we having this discussion?

Come on Cappy, I didn't inhale.....

[Pedro]

I also noted Jo Lieberman is not on the list. I believe he is on the armed services committee. Don't think he served.

But what does it really matter? Clinton taught us it is ok to draft dodge so military experience is irrelevant just as smokin doobs is. Why are we having this discussion?

I don’t find the “and these are the guys sending people to war” statement in the middle of a comparison of the service record of our Republican and Democrat leaders to be worthy of debate at all. I do find it intriguing and offensive that the extremists like to misrepresent the facts by intentionally withholding important information, kind of like a Mike Moore film.

A good example was when Mike interviewed 4 or 5 Army soldiers in F 911. For the purpose of the film their condescending views on military progress in Iraq became the opinions of all soldiers. It blew me away. When I spoke with some of my peers returning from Iraq there opinions on progress in Iraq were quite different and much more positive, and these weren’t rear echelon troops, they were door kicking infantry men battling it out on the front lines on a daily basis.

Anyway getting back to the list, I see tirolpeter had to dig real deep to find some good democrats that served like Walter Mondale. Outside of an unsuccessful run for Senate in 2002, Walter hasn’t had much political influence since the Carter administration, so his uneventful 4 years of service in the 50’s must have a great deal of relevance to our current foreign policy. If we are going to talk about irrelevant political figures why not bring up those whose service was extraordinary like Bob Dole? Bob earned two purple hearts, and the bronze star and lost all use of his right arm during WWII, but I guess his service just wasn’t good enough to make the list. Sorry Bob, maybe next time.

[Dr. NO]

I believe she disobeyed a DIRECT order, but still sucks.

one of the Best scroungers in WW II in the pacific was non other than Richard Milhouse Nixon. Stories have it he would beg, borrow or steal anything he could to keep his unit supplied and operational. But as he said....

" I AM NOT A CROOK ! "

Dr. No... The closest Nixon ever got to the Pacific was once as a tourist who took ride on a bomber out on a routine recon. Take a look at the military experience of some other politicians and general big-mouths:


Democrats:

Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1! 968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist i! n 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,Purple Hearts.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53. < ?param 0000,0000,FFFF>* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.

Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. *
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze St! ars, and Soldier's Medal.< /B>
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received #311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.


Republicans -- and these are the guys sending people to war:

* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyle: did not serve.
* Tim Hutch! ison: did not serve.

* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.

* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard;
got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies! .
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not ! serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.!
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot back.)

Kind of funny you failed to find that George H. Bush was shot down over the pacific flying in a NAVAL Aircraft.

Oh, GW was flying and served FULL TIME for nearly 3 years on a 6 year PART TIME commitment.

And the Democrat High guys, Kennedy and Dodd? did they serve? NFW. Kennedy ducked and Dodd went to Peace Corp. Such a deal. His dad, a good democrat that got screwed by his own, must roll over in his grave !

OMG, you missed SENATOR MC CAIN ! POW, decorated VIET NAM NAVAL PILOT? REPUBLICAN !

dang one sided A hole !

Get over it !

ps: Jimmy Stewart was a Republican. He flew 25 missions over Europe in B29's (don't know how he could fit). He was a Brigadere General and commanded the Air National Guard. Don't see him in that list of yours !

[Pedro]

OMG, you missed SENATOR MC CAIN ! POW, decorated VIET NAM NAVAL PILOT? REPUBLICAN !

ps: Jimmy Stewart was a Republican. He flew 25 missions over Europe in B29's (don't know how he could fit). He was a Brigadere General and commanded the Air National Guard. Don't see him in that list of yours !

No, Doc He had McCain in there, he wouldn't leave him out thats like the first Republican you look for...

My Dads Uncle was on a B29 Crew in WWII Flew the 25 missions (i believe that was sort of the tour they had to do correct me if im wrong, me being a grunt and all) anyway he operated one of the machine guns on that bad larry and battled lots of fighters. After there crew was done with there 25 flights, the next crew went down in flames on their very first mission, The Plane was called the Racy Tomato if you ever come accross it in a book. (My cousin is currently writing a book about the crew) Uncle Rob Passed away last december, so ironic he fought through all of those hairy missions and he died by losing his balance on a ladder and hitting his head on Hot Water heater, he was the last of 13 brothers and sisters. So sad to see the WWII Vets pass on, such a great part of our history.