Another media driven false narrative?

[madhatter]

everyone knows obama is a racist, race baiting lying sack of sh!t except of course the obamaknobgobblers...spend 6 years stirring up racial divide and animosity then feign outrage when it erupts into violence as if it was unexpected...

glad I don't live anywhere near the city...the violence won't be coming to my neighborhood...everyone jumping on the race war propaganda best beware of what you are asking for...ya ain't gonna like it...cuz voting for obama and listening to jayz ain't gonna make ya black from 30ft...

"what do we want? dead cops... when do we want em? now..." yep obama built that...congratulations a-hole you set race relations back more than 50 years w your stupidity...and now we got vigilantes executing police to honor dead criminals... alinsky would be pleased...

And with this diatribe, Madhatter once again quite eloquently makes my point.

truth hurts so much you can't even acknowledge it can ya? the intents and beliefs of the POtuS are quite clear, if you don't have your eyes wide shut...listen to his words read his books, look at who he pals around with and who he takes his advice from...you are correct that some will never see the reality of things and change their minds... count yourself among them...

[XtremeJibber2001]

Do you feel there is a difference when the POTUS holds a press conference versus issuing a statement?

Do you think this difference may cause some people to question the intent and beliefs of the POTUS?

Do you really think the people who question the "intent and beliefs of the POTUS" on this (or any other) issue would somehow change their position if he made his statement in front of a camera?

Really?

I'd be disappointed to learn the POTUS makes decisions based on whether said decision will influence others to change their position. Is this the way you believe he thinks and the way you feel a POTUS should operate?

I think as POTUS you should be aware of how statements/appearances you do (or do not make) can be viewed by others, independent of how others may (or may not) be influenced by said statements/appearances. Do you disagree?

[madhatter]

Howard Safir: Anti-Police Rhetoric Unlike Anything I’ve Seen in 45 Years

http://time.com/3643286/howard-safir-nypd-shooting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sheriff David Clarke on Worsening Race Relations: Obama Built That

December 11th, 2014 • Sheriff David Clarke of Milwaukee County squarely placed the blame for worsening race relations in America on the shoulders of President Barack Obama.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ8vOsfnjzs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[shortski]

The backlash at the police is not acceptable but it's to be expected. The protests are directed at the police not being indicted where the problem is the police have to stop killing civilians. The police are now the standing Army that the constitution strictly forbids. This is where true leaders take control and fire all top level police officials for not properly training and supervising the officers under thier control. That us executive action I could get behind. Another thing would be to stop supplying police with surplus military grade equipment and take away the toys they already have. Having them guarantees they will be used.

[Coydog]

I'd be disappointed to learn the POTUS makes decisions based on whether said decision will influence others to change their position. Is this the way you believe he thinks and the way you feel a POTUS should operate?

I think as POTUS you should be aware of how statements/appearances you do (or do not make) can be viewed by others, independent of how others may (or may not) be influenced by said statements/appearances. Do you disagree?

All rational people make some decisions based on the expected or desired influence on others. It’s called making an argument. What words you chose, how to frame the argument, how to deliver the argument are examples of decisions designed to sway another’s position.

In any case your argument is almost perfectly circular - POTUS shouldn't make a decision based on how it might influence others, but should be aware his decisions influence others and so presumably should take this into account when making a decision.

[Coydog]

The backlash at the police is not acceptable but it's to be expected. The protests are directed at the police not being indicted where the problem is the police have to stop killing civilians. The police are now the standing Army that the constitution strictly forbids. This is where true leaders take control and fire all top level police officials for not properly training and supervising the officers under thier control. That us executive action I could get behind. Another thing would be to stop supplying police with surplus military grade equipment and take away the toys they already have. Having them guarantees they will be used.

Yes, very much agree. Perhaps it is too much for me to expect the (far) right to recognize that racial injustice still lingers in our justice system, but opposing the domestic militarization of our own government that inevitably leads to the unjust killing of unarmed civilians should be a cause for everyone to embrace.

Kinda weird if you go far enough to the left and far enough to the right, you meet in the same place.

[madhatter]

The backlash at the police is not acceptable but it's to be expected. The protests are directed at the police not being indicted where the problem is the police have to stop killing civilians. The police are now the standing Army that the constitution strictly forbids. This is where true leaders take control and fire all top level police officials for not properly training and supervising the officers under thier control. That us executive action I could get behind. Another thing would be to stop supplying police with surplus military grade equipment and take away the toys they already have. Having them guarantees they will be used.

Yes, very much agree. Perhaps it is too much for me to expect the (far) right to recognize that racial injustice still lingers in our justice system, neither brown nor garner were killed because of their RACEbut opposing the domestic militarization of our own government that inevitably leads to the unjust killing of unarmed civilians should be a cause for everyone to embrace.point to an example of an MRAP or other " military" type weapon used to unjustly kill civilians...

Kinda weird if you go far enough to the left and far enough to the right, you meet in the same place.

yep there will be a time when those are used against the populace but that will come when the civil unrest that obama and his ilk so desperately want in order to exact their "social justice" scheme which will be neither social nor justice but the complete takeover of civilians lives and the elimination of those who refuse to go along...it is called totalitarianism and it is how every leftist society ends freedom in the name of "fairness"...

[XtremeJibber2001]

I'd be disappointed to learn the POTUS makes decisions based on whether said decision will influence others to change their position. Is this the way you believe he thinks and the way you feel a POTUS should operate?

I think as POTUS you should be aware of how statements/appearances you do (or do not make) can be viewed by others, independent of how others may (or may not) be influenced by said statements/appearances. Do you disagree?

All rational people make some decisions based on the expected or desired influence on others. It’s called making an argument. What words you chose, how to frame the argument, how to deliver the argument are examples of decisions designed to sway another’s position.

In any case your argument is almost perfectly circular - POTUS shouldn't make a decision based on how it might influence others, but should be aware his decisions influence others and so presumably should take this into account when making a decision.

Bad optics, I suppose.

[Bubba]

Former NYC Police Commissioner Ray Kelly on current major de Blasio

http://time.com/3646155/ray-kelly-on-ma ... tter-brief" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[XtremeJibber2001]

... and we've come full circle.

Justice Dept. to Recommend No Civil Rights Charges in Ferguson Shooting
By MATT APUZZO and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDTJAN. 21, 2015

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has begun work on a legal memo recommending no civil rights charges against a white police officer in Ferguson, Mo., who killed an unarmed black teenager in August, law enforcement officials said.

That would close the politically charged case in the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. The investigation by the F.B.I., which is complete, found no evidence to support civil rights charges against the officer, Darren Wilson, the officials said.

A broader civil rights investigation into allegations of discriminatory traffic stops and excessive force by the Ferguson Police Department remains open, however. That investigation could lead to significant changes at the department, which is overwhelmingly white despite serving a city that is mostly black.

The state authorities concluded their investigation into Mr. Brown’s death in November and similarly recommended no charges.

There is a high legal bar for bringing federal civil rights charges, and federal investigators had for months signaled that they were unlikely to do so. The Justice Department plans to release a report explaining its decision, though it is not clear when.

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., has said that he plans to have it done before leaving office, probably in the next month or two if his successor is confirmed.

Three law enforcement officials discussed the details of the federal investigation on condition of anonymity because the report was incomplete and Mr. Holder and his top civil rights prosecutor, Vanita Gupta, had not formally made a decision. Dena Iverson, a Justice Department spokeswoman, declined to comment.

Benjamin L. Crump, a lawyer for Mr. Brown’s family, said he did not want to comment on the investigation until the Justice Department made an official announcement. “We’ve heard speculation on cases before that didn’t turn out to be true,” Mr. Crump said. “It’s too much to put the family through to respond to every rumor.” Mr. Crump said that at the end of last year that the Justice Department had told him that it was still investigating.

The lawyer for Mr. Wilson did not return calls for comment.

The shooting touched off protests that included violent clashes between demonstrators and heavily armed police. That incident, along with the death of Eric Garner — an unarmed black man who died after a chokehold by a New York police officer in July — sparked a nationwide discussion about policing, race and the use of deadly force.

President Obama, Mr. Holder and Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York, speaking about the issue in personal terms, said they understood the concern that minority neighborhoods had with the police. Those comments prompted rebukes from some law enforcement groups.

Mr. Holder said that the Justice Department’s investigation would be independent from the local authorities. While the F.B.I. and local officials conducted some interviews together and shared evidence, the analysis and decision-making were separate. Mr. Holder resisted calls from local officials to announce his conclusion alongside the county prosecutor last year, in part because he did not want it to appear as if they had reached their decisions together.

Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story
Federal investigators interviewed more than 200 people and analyzed cellphone audio and video, the law enforcement officials said. Officer Wilson’s gun, clothing and other evidence were analyzed at the F.B.I.’s laboratory in Quantico, Va. Though the local authorities and Mr. Brown’s family conducted autopsies, Mr. Holder ordered a separate autopsy, which was conducted by pathologists from the Armed Forces Medical Examiner’s office at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, the officials said.

The federal investigation did not uncover any facts that differed significantly from the evidence made public by the authorities in Missouri late last year, the law enforcement officials said. To bring federal civil rights charges, the Justice Department would have needed to prove that Officer Wilson had intended to violate Mr. Brown’s rights when he had opened fire and that he had done so willfully — meaning he knew that it was wrong to fire, but did so anyway.

Soon after the shooting, witnesses told reporters that Mr. Brown had his hands up in a gesture of surrender when he was shot and killed by Mr. Wilson on a city street. The investigation, however, painted a murkier picture. Mr. Wilson told investigators that Mr. Brown tussled with him through the window of his police car and tried to grab his gun, an account supported by bruises and DNA evidence. Two shots were fired during that struggle.

What happened next as the confrontation moved into the street is in dispute. While some witnesses were adamant that Mr. Brown had his hands up, some recanted their stories. Mr. Wilson testified that Mr. Brown charged at him, and other witnesses backed up his account.

“I’m backpedaling pretty good because I know if he reaches me, he’ll kill me,” Mr. Wilson told a state grand jury, in testimony that investigators said was consistent with what he told the F.B.I. “And he had started to lean forward as he got that close, like he was going to just tackle me, just go right through me,” Mr. Wilson said.

The Ferguson investigation drew Mr. Holder into the spotlight on the issue of race, one he cares about deeply. He traveled to Ferguson, spoke of his experiences as a victim of racial profiling and emerged as a peacemaker during the tense days after the shooting, when police used tear gas on demonstrators and the National Guard was summoned.

The shooting also inflamed longstanding tensions between Ferguson’s black community and the police. Residents told investigators that the police used traffic citations in minority neighborhoods as a way to raise money for the city.

“These anecdotal accounts underscored the history of mistrust of law enforcement in Ferguson,” Mr. Holder said in September after returning from Ferguson, a suburb about 10 miles northwest of St. Louis.

It is not clear when the broader civil rights inquiry of the police department, known as a pattern or practice investigation, will be completed. Under Mr. Holder, prosecutors have opened more than 20 such investigations nationwide. The Justice Department recently called for sweeping changes to the Cleveland Police Department and negotiated an independent monitor to oversee the department in Albuquerque.

Mr. Wilson resigned from the department in November, citing threats of violence against him and other officers. “It is my hope that my resignation will allow the community to heal,” he said.

[madhatter]

... and we've come full circle.

Justice Dept. to Recommend No Civil Rights Charges in Ferguson Shooting
By MATT APUZZO and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDTJAN. 21, 2015

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has begun work on a legal memo recommending no civil rights charges against a white police officer in Ferguson, Mo., who killed an unarmed black teenager in August, law enforcement officials said.

That would close the politically charged case in the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. The investigation by the F.B.I., which is complete, found no evidence to support civil rights charges against the officer, Darren Wilson, the officials said.

A broader civil rights investigation into allegations of discriminatory traffic stops and excessive force by the Ferguson Police Department remains open, however. That investigation could lead to significant changes at the department, which is overwhelmingly white despite serving a city that is mostly black.

The state authorities concluded their investigation into Mr. Brown’s death in November and similarly recommended no charges.

There is a high legal bar for bringing federal civil rights charges, and federal investigators had for months signaled that they were unlikely to do so. The Justice Department plans to release a report explaining its decision, though it is not clear when.

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., has said that he plans to have it done before leaving office, probably in the next month or two if his successor is confirmed.

Three law enforcement officials discussed the details of the federal investigation on condition of anonymity because the report was incomplete and Mr. Holder and his top civil rights prosecutor, Vanita Gupta, had not formally made a decision. Dena Iverson, a Justice Department spokeswoman, declined to comment.

Benjamin L. Crump, a lawyer for Mr. Brown’s family, said he did not want to comment on the investigation until the Justice Department made an official announcement. “We’ve heard speculation on cases before that didn’t turn out to be true,” Mr. Crump said. “It’s too much to put the family through to respond to every rumor.” Mr. Crump said that at the end of last year that the Justice Department had told him that it was still investigating.

The lawyer for Mr. Wilson did not return calls for comment.

The shooting touched off protests that included violent clashes between demonstrators and heavily armed police. That incident, along with the death of Eric Garner — an unarmed black man who died after a chokehold by a New York police officer in July — sparked a nationwide discussion about policing, race and the use of deadly force.

President Obama, Mr. Holder and Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York, speaking about the issue in personal terms, said they understood the concern that minority neighborhoods had with the police. Those comments prompted rebukes from some law enforcement groups.

Mr. Holder said that the Justice Department’s investigation would be independent from the local authorities. While the F.B.I. and local officials conducted some interviews together and shared evidence, the analysis and decision-making were separate. Mr. Holder resisted calls from local officials to announce his conclusion alongside the county prosecutor last year, in part because he did not want it to appear as if they had reached their decisions together.

Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story
Federal investigators interviewed more than 200 people and analyzed cellphone audio and video, the law enforcement officials said. Officer Wilson’s gun, clothing and other evidence were analyzed at the F.B.I.’s laboratory in Quantico, Va. Though the local authorities and Mr. Brown’s family conducted autopsies, Mr. Holder ordered a separate autopsy, which was conducted by pathologists from the Armed Forces Medical Examiner’s office at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, the officials said.

The federal investigation did not uncover any facts that differed significantly from the evidence made public by the authorities in Missouri late last year, the law enforcement officials said. To bring federal civil rights charges, the Justice Department would have needed to prove that Officer Wilson had intended to violate Mr. Brown’s rights when he had opened fire and that he had done so willfully — meaning he knew that it was wrong to fire, but did so anyway.

Soon after the shooting, witnesses told reporters that Mr. Brown had his hands up in a gesture of surrender when he was shot and killed by Mr. Wilson on a city street. The investigation, however, painted a murkier picture. Mr. Wilson told investigators that Mr. Brown tussled with him through the window of his police car and tried to grab his gun, an account supported by bruises and DNA evidence. Two shots were fired during that struggle.

What happened next as the confrontation moved into the street is in dispute. While some witnesses were adamant that Mr. Brown had his hands up, some recanted their stories. Mr. Wilson testified that Mr. Brown charged at him, and other witnesses backed up his account.

“I’m backpedaling pretty good because I know if he reaches me, he’ll kill me,” Mr. Wilson told a state grand jury, in testimony that investigators said was consistent with what he told the F.B.I. “And he had started to lean forward as he got that close, like he was going to just tackle me, just go right through me,” Mr. Wilson said.

The Ferguson investigation drew Mr. Holder into the spotlight on the issue of race, one he cares about deeply. He traveled to Ferguson, spoke of his experiences as a victim of racial profiling and emerged as a peacemaker during the tense days after the shooting, when police used tear gas on demonstrators and the National Guard was summoned.

The shooting also inflamed longstanding tensions between Ferguson’s black community and the police. Residents told investigators that the police used traffic citations in minority neighborhoods as a way to raise money for the city.

“These anecdotal accounts underscored the history of mistrust of law enforcement in Ferguson,” Mr. Holder said in September after returning from Ferguson, a suburb about 10 miles northwest of St. Louis.

It is not clear when the broader civil rights inquiry of the police department, known as a pattern or practice investigation, will be completed. Under Mr. Holder, prosecutors have opened more than 20 such investigations nationwide. The Justice Department recently called for sweeping changes to the Cleveland Police Department and negotiated an independent monitor to oversee the department in Albuquerque.

Mr. Wilson resigned from the department in November, citing threats of violence against him and other officers. “It is my hope that my resignation will allow the community to heal,” he said.

the outcome was certain from day one but the possibility of it and the rhetoric that went along with it definitely was a great tool for fomenting riots...alinsky would be proud...

[madhatter]

as usual EVERY dumbf@ck liberal got this wrong because EVERY dumbf@ck liberal based their findings on emotions and their view of how the world "should be" vs how the world actually is... a recurring theme for them in EVERY argument...

every dumbf@ck liberal then proceeded to attack anyone who disagreed w them, blocked or otherwise ignored any opinions contrary to theirs and still can't concede that they got it wrong even after its settled and done...

THAT is a mental illness... time and again the same stupid f@cks make the same mistakes and never learn from them...it's why the rest of us will ALWAYS have a leg up on you idiots and why you will always cry that life is treating you unfairly... sorry but you treat yourself unfairly and reap the rewards of it...

enjoy...

[Mister Moose]

as usual EVERY ... liberal got this wrong because EVERY... liberal based their findings on emotions and their view of how the world "should be" vs how the world actually is... a recurring theme for them in EVERY argument...

I saw an interesting progression once at a concert. The performer drove a Prius to the venue, is anti gun, supports gay rights, anti corporation, and in general makes statements that would qualify her as a liberal in most circles.

She's talented, and gives a great show, which after all is the reason we go.

So she introduces the opening act, a protégé of hers, and mentions the cute mouse in the green room. There really shouldn't be a mouse, and please Mr. Building manager don't hurt it, but maybe you could just catch him and let him go somewhere.

When she starts her set she says OK, the mouse is making regular appearances and is showing interest in the food set out, he's not so cute, I don't like him, can you please scurry him away...

After the intermission something clearly happened. There was a very unpleasant mouse encounter. Her first remark on taking the stage was "I really don't like mice and I hate to say it, but kill it before I get back there.

She's still very liberal in her views, but she illustrated MH's point on what you think should be and what is. She wanted to be nice to the mouse(mice) but after reflecting on mice pee and disease they might carry and their lack of response to verbal instructions, decided she needed a more stern response. Being nice to the mouse didn't work. In the space of 2 hours she went from Protector of Mouse Rights to Mouse Executioner.

I think that some opinions turn when suddenly it's your food, your clothing the mouse pees on.

[deadheadskier]

Anyone care to guess how many citizens were killed by British police last year? Anyone care to guess how many British police officers were killed in the line of duty last year?


With Britian's population being about 20% of what we have here in the US and human nature being what it is, one would think that those death statistics would scale no?

[Bubba]

as usual EVERY ... liberal got this wrong because EVERY... liberal based their findings on emotions and their view of how the world "should be" vs how the world actually is... a recurring theme for them in EVERY argument...

I saw an interesting progression once at a concert. The performer drove a Prius to the venue, is anti gun, supports gay rights, anti corporation, and in general makes statements that would qualify her as a liberal in most circles.

She's talented, and gives a great show, which after all is the reason we go.

So she introduces the opening act, a protégé of hers, and mentions the cute mouse in the green room. There really shouldn't be a mouse, and please Mr. Building manager don't hurt it, but maybe you could just catch him and let him go somewhere.

When she starts her set she says OK, the mouse is making regular appearances and is showing interest in the food set out, he's not so cute, I don't like him, can you please scurry him away...

After the intermission something clearly happened. There was a very unpleasant mouse encounter. Her first remark on taking the stage was "I really don't like mice and I hate to say it, but kill it before I get back there.

She's still very liberal in her views, but she illustrated MH's point on what you think should be and what is. She wanted to be nice to the mouse(mice) but after reflecting on mice pee and disease they might carry and their lack of response to verbal instructions, decided she needed a more stern response. Being nice to the mouse didn't work. In the space of 2 hours she went from Protector of Mouse Rights to Mouse Executioner.

I think that some opinions turn when suddenly it's your food, your clothing the mouse pees on.

Or...if you're not liberal when you're young, you don't have a heart. If you're not more conservative as you get older, you don't have a brain.