C'mon Powdr....REALLY?....

[madhatter]

...and JUST to rub salt into a raw wound?...MT Snow Unlimited Pass....$599. Thanks ,, Powda...

mt snow will close sunday, no idea when they opened...ain't no K anyway...

[BoozeTan]

Mt Slow, Flatton and Slokemo got nothing on the Beast!!

[Girlrider]

I agree that K takes pass holders' money no matter what. And, midweek closures are not an excuse. I was up there last Sunday and Superstar was down for a long time in the am. Canyon Quad broke down and needed a technician.... Serious BS. This is exactly why me and my posse did not buy a K pass and will never again unless K and upper management fixes the damn problems with the lifts. Every resort has random lift closures or problems but not a constant situation that goes on for YEARS. K should stop thinking about building a Peak Lodge and upgrade the lift infrastructure if they want to save the resort. Period! MAX Pass is way to go with a K Express Pass.

[da Pimp]

Mt Slow, Flatton and Slokemo got nothing on the Beast!! ??

What they DO have on Killington is a helluva lot more skier/boarder visits that used to belong to Killington, with all that ticket money plus the high margin booze, food, rentals, lessons that go along with a lot of blue square visitors. There is a HUGE amount of business that takes place at Snowshed and Rams Head, and then spread out to all the blue square trails. Where do you think the profit comes from that floats the K boat? From the hard core pass holders who frequent the Canyon chair? They provide startup capital and fill some seats, but they are not the higher margin customers who are needed to fill the majority of the empty seats.

There are thousands of Mt Slow, Flatton and Slokemo customers who go home every week and tell their family, friends, coworkers about the good time they had at one of those "lesser" places. That creates a snowball effect of continuing business south of Killington, and that tide is hard to turn back north to Killington.

Pres Smith always maintained (and told POWDR a while back) that the secret to success at Killington is that volume is what triggers the metrics, and Killington has the ability to provide something for everyone - beginners, green & blue, experts, long season, local lodging and partying, natural advantages of better winter weather and the best terrain options. Having something for everyone means you can maximize your attendance in a number of avenues - you can get a good sized piece of the pie in every category.

The external stuff of the access road, the mountain itself, and the weather advantage is out of POWDR control. But the programs, pricing, snowmaking, grooming, base lodges, and the SHITTY UNIMPROVED LIFT NETWORK are all under POWDR control. It is these areas where POWDR can make or break themselves. In the last few seasons their attendance has been increasing. I believe that the last thing holding them back from getting the southern VT business back is the lift network, specifically lousy reliability and no improvements in years.

Yes, I love the updated Skye Peak Express, but there was a quad there already. Net gain of zero. Lost the Devils Fiddle chair, lost the South Ridge chair, with no replacements. Gained another Magic Carpet. They put band aids on the Cripple Triple with someone else's money and it still stops and stalls a lot. The Slowdown Quad still lanquishes as the most frustrating piece of equipment outside of a clogged snowmaking nozzle. Yet nothing happens to fix all the lift problems or actually invest in improvements. The fixes on the gondolas seems to have worked to get them back to standard, but it took them years to do something about them. Does anyone think that the Peak Lodge project would have been started if the old building was still structurally sound? Killington or POWDR need to stop looking at situations from their own point of view and use the CUSTOMER point of view. That is the only thing that matters, and the profits they always expected to reap when they bought in will never show up until they listen to the voice of the customer. What I really mean is to listen, then ACT on the information. They seems to be willing to act on the easier, smaller items and crow about it all year long, but those are expected in any ski business. Time to stop the shell game and stop bullshitting your customers.

The sad thing about all this is that Killington can do the right thing and improve their strategy and execution, but any new profits will probably be shunted over to other POWDR schemes and not back into Killington for new lifts or lodge work. There is a LOT of things to be done while you "wait and see" with the proposed Village project. By doing nothing, you gain nothing.

I will continue to enjoy the incredible mountain, the natural weather advantage and the access road positives and deal with the other Killington/POWDR negatives. However, there are many thousands of high margin blue square and green circle customers that have many more choices in the market that satisfies their ski & ride needs and have been very willing to exercise them.

[skiadikt]

I agree that K takes pass holders' money no matter what. And, midweek closures are not an excuse. I was up there last Sunday and Superstar was down for a long time in the am. Canyon Quad broke down and needed a technician.... Serious BS. This is exactly why me and my posse did not buy a K pass and will never again unless K and upper management fixes the damn problems with the lifts. Every resort has random lift closures or problems but not a constant situation that goes on for YEARS. K should stop thinking about building a Peak Lodge and upgrade the lift infrastructure if they want to save the resort. Period! MAX Pass is way to go with a K Express Pass.

different issue than the usual bad weather lift delay issue, but yeah we also had a long sit on the bmq and there were issues w/ skyeship 2 as well where they switched over to the needles chair for a while and then switched back. clearly none of the problems were serious as they were able to get the lifts back running relatively quickly. not a big impact on a beautiful ski day. nonetheless you wonder whether these are "normal" day-to-day operational issues or whether there are things that some off-season maintenance can fix or whether more extensive rebuilds are necessary.

also living w/ 2 snowmakers, had to listen to the horrors of the snowmaking infrastructure. the poor welder was working overtime fixing all the blown pipes. again normal or preventable. don't know ...

[madhatter]

I agree that K takes pass holders' money no matter what. And, midweek closures are not an excuse. I was up there last Sunday and Superstar was down for a long time in the am. Canyon Quad broke down and needed a technician.... Serious BS. This is exactly why me and my posse did not buy a K pass and will never again unless K and upper management fixes the damn problems with the lifts. Every resort has random lift closures or problems but not a constant situation that goes on for YEARS. K should stop thinking about building a Peak Lodge and upgrade the lift infrastructure if they want to save the resort. Period! MAX Pass is way to go with a K Express Pass.

different issue than the usual bad weather lift delay issue, but yeah we also had a long sit on the bmq and there were issues w/ skyeship 2 as well where they switched over to the needles chair for a while and then switched back. clearly none of the problems were serious as they were able to get the lifts back running relatively quickly. not a big impact on a beautiful ski day. nonetheless you wonder whether these are "normal" day-to-day operational issues or whether there are things that some off-season maintenance can fix or whether more extensive rebuilds are necessary.

also living w/ 2 snowmakers, had to listen to the horrors of the snowmaking infrastructure. the poor welder was working overtime fixing all the blown pipes. again normal or preventable. don't know ...

all that snowmaking pipe is pretty freakin old at this point, but the cost and possibly environmental hurdles to replace it are likely a nonstarter... all they can do is fix as needed...

as it is with a lot of things, you can buy or build it but can you afford to fix, repair or upkeep it?

[da Pimp]

All the thousands of feet of old pipe underground are inherited from previous ownership, and the threat of failure is an age and corrosion thing, plus some ground movement that comes from sitting in a very harsh environment. I believe it is something that has to be reacted to when something occurs, because the cost and justification to dig & replace something that MIGHT fail later on is unreasonable. Snowmaking interruptions from pipe failures is something I can understand, and in my own observations I think Killington does a good job of reacting and fixing where required.

Regarding the Skiadikt comments on lift breakdowns - whenever I ski at another hill east or west it is so refreshing to not worry about getting getting up the hill as planned. Stoppages, slowdowns or temp closures are so rare elsewhere, yet so commonplace at Killington. Lifts are a big negative that takes away from all the good that gets done by Killington.

I think its time to review the Mt. Bachelor lift situation that was a thorny issue with those employees (still is?). They hated POWDR for their lack of maintenance, improvements or repairs. I have no idea if that is happening here, but since POWDR has been short on good things and long on bad things at Killington I can't help but wonder. Passing that silly once a year lift inspection is no indication of anything else except that there is a pulse and it eats and poops. Yet that is the first and only thing a ski area talks about - we passed inspection. No one ever reveals the number of stoppages, the reasons for those stoppages, and their policies regarding slowdowns or stoppages. "Safety is the most important thing" is the ownership mantra, and I support that. Yet the competition says the same thing and has lifts that operate well, too.

[SnoBrdr]

I agree that K takes pass holders' money no matter what. And, midweek closures are not an excuse. I was up there last Sunday and Superstar was down for a long time in the am. Canyon Quad broke down and needed a technician.... Serious BS. This is exactly why me and my posse did not buy a K pass and will never again unless K and upper management fixes the damn problems with the lifts. Every resort has random lift closures or problems but not a constant situation that goes on for YEARS. K should stop thinking about building a Peak Lodge and upgrade the lift infrastructure if they want to save the resort. Period! MAX Pass is way to go with a K Express Pass.

different issue than the usual bad weather lift delay issue, but yeah we also had a long sit on the bmq and there were issues w/ skyeship 2 as well where they switched over to the needles chair for a while and then switched back. clearly none of the problems were serious as they were able to get the lifts back running relatively quickly. not a big impact on a beautiful ski day. nonetheless you wonder whether these are "normal" day-to-day operational issues or whether there are things that some off-season maintenance can fix or whether more extensive rebuilds are necessary.

also living w/ 2 snowmakers, had to listen to the horrors of the snowmaking infrastructure. the poor welder was working overtime fixing all the blown pipes. again normal or preventable. don't know ...

all that snowmaking pipe is pretty freakin old at this point, but the cost and possibly environmental hurdles to replace it are likely a nonstarter... all they can do is fix as needed...

as it is with a lot of things, you can buy or build it but can you afford to fix, repair or upkeep it?

It's obviously much, much cheaper to repair when something breaks as opposed to replacing it all.

The government has been using the same principle with our roads and bridges.

Ford did it with the Pinto and the Crown Vics.

All the fault of the bean counters and shareholders who want their dividends.

[brownman]

Everyone is free to make their own investment decisions.
Just as true for us as it is for PWDR.
Aside from K Mgmt, none of us know all the investment priority decision factors here.

Yes, the infrastructure is crumbling everywhere around us.
Most will drive their vehicles over rusty bridges and (other than in Flint) will still drink the water.

Suggest vote with your wallet and live with the consequences.
Makes for a more predictable and realistic outcome.

Keeping our season in perspective...
Jackson Hole closes Sunday after a 400" season snowfall and with 100" base remaining.
The attitude there is appreciation and celebration, not bitchy whining and moaning.

[simpletwist]

Keeping our season in perspective...
Jackson Hole closes Sunday after a 400" season snowfall and with 100" base remaining.
The attitude there is appreciation and celebration, not bitchy whining and moaning.

Not sure how this keeps anything in "perspective." To my knowledge, Killington is not subject to the same lease/permit restrictions that exist for Jackson Hole, which impact their operating dates.

[E O Eleven]

[roundabout]

Mt Slow, Flatton and Slokemo got nothing on the Beast!!

Except that Mt slow as you call it, made snow twice in March to provide their customers with the best possible skiing surfaces. Meanwhile the "beast" served up crushed ice. I'm a big fan of Killington, don't get me wrong, but I bought a Peak Pass without hesitation based on Mt Snow's commitment to provide quality skiing whenever possible.

[SnoBrdr]

Mt Slow, Flatton and Slokemo got nothing on the Beast!!

Except that Mt slow as you call it, made snow twice in March to provide their customers with the best possible skiing surfaces. Meanwhile the "beast" served up crushed ice. I'm a big fan of Killington, don't get me wrong, but I bought a Peak Pass without hesitation based on Mt Snow's commitment to provide quality skiing whenever possible.

if you think Snow compares in any way to what K offers, enjoy yourself.

[roundabout]

Mt Slow, Flatton and Slokemo got nothing on the Beast!!

Except that Mt slow as you call it, made snow twice in March to provide their customers with the best possible skiing surfaces. Meanwhile the "beast" served up crushed ice. I'm a big fan of Killington, don't get me wrong, but I bought a Peak Pass without hesitation based on Mt Snow's commitment to provide quality skiing whenever possible.

if you think Snow compares in any way to what K offers, enjoy yourself.

Thanks, I will

[brownman]

Not sure how this keeps anything in "perspective."

The point is simple twist...
Little solace for the bitch brigade, but Killington will still have a season beyond Sunday.