Diesel Compressors

[rogman]

Seems a bit disingenuous for Killington to keep talking about "Play Forever" while still using diesel compressors that go through fuel by the tanker truck load. Isn't it time to retire them like so many other places have? I'm wondering if we'll see additional Ingersoll Rand NX-500 Centac air compressors like the new one at the base, both at the Bear and the Snowshed compressor farms in the near future.

If the Base Camp at Bear is built, the owners of those 2.5 million dollar homes are not going to like living 100 yards from 12 or so compressors. Even now they are noisy, and it's down to 6. Some kind of noise abatement is going to be necessary. It's curious that Green Mountain Power recently put in a huge power upgrade on Bear Mtn Road: bigger poles, bigger power lines. Is something afoot? Has Killington already had discussions about this with GMP?

Regardless, it makes sense to do the upgrade now; having similar (identical?) equipment would simplify parts sparing. The fact that this design has variable output would make them more efficient to throttle back to what is actually needed. Still, the notion that there is a seasonal change over from being air limited to water limited seems rather quaint. Killington sure as hell isn't water limited right now, and that is going to continue to be the case.

The only disadvantages I see are the capital outlay required, although I suspect the return is fairly quick, and that in periods where Killington is asked to curtail power usage, diesel compressors allow them a little more latitude. They still have to move the water. I don't know, just seems like its time.

[Dude GFY]

We're going back to coal I heard

[Bubba]

We're going back to coal I heard

ooooohh.....black snow!

[newpylong1]

Seems a bit disingenuous for Killington to keep talking about "Play Forever" while still using diesel compressors that go through fuel by the tanker truck load. Isn't it time to retire them like so many other places have? I'm wondering if we'll see additional Ingersoll Rand NX-500 Centac air compressors like the new one at the base, both at the Bear and the Snowshed compressor farms in the near future.

If the Base Camp at Bear is built, the owners of those 2.5 million dollar homes are not going to like living 100 yards from 12 or so compressors. Even now they are noisy, and it's down to 6. Some kind of noise abatement is going to be necessary. It's curious that Green Mountain Power recently put in a huge power upgrade on Bear Mtn Road: bigger poles, bigger power lines. Is something afoot? Has Killington already had discussions about this with GMP?

Regardless, it makes sense to do the upgrade now; having similar (identical?) equipment would simplify parts sparing. The fact that this design has variable output would make them more efficient to throttle back to what is actually needed. Still, the notion that there is a seasonal change over from being air limited to water limited seems rather quaint. Killington sure as hell isn't water limited right now, and that is going to continue to be the case.

The only disadvantages I see are the capital outlay required, although I suspect the return is fairly quick, and that in periods where Killington is asked to curtail power usage, diesel compressors allow them a little more latitude. They still have to move the water. I don't know, just seems like its time.

Some good points but they will be water limited as soon as the wet bulb drops. Reliable and efficient water distribution is the larger issue at K, not air.

[iRock]

20 fan guns around the mountain in high traffic areas that already have utilities would be a great first step and you could eliminate a number of compressors doing that.

Bottom of Rams, K1 lodge area, Snowshed ttb widely spaced, bottom of Needle's, bottom of Bear, maybe one with a swivel somewhere on the bottom 1/5th of OL. We're not talking 10s of miles of 3-phase here exactly... cheap, efficient, easy, and overdue.

[iRock]

Seems a bit disingenuous for Killington to keep talking about "Play Forever" while still using diesel compressors that go through fuel by the tanker truck load. Isn't it time to retire them like so many other places have? I'm wondering if we'll see additional Ingersoll Rand NX-500 Centac air compressors like the new one at the base, both at the Bear and the Snowshed compressor farms in the near future.

If the Base Camp at Bear is built, the owners of those 2.5 million dollar homes are not going to like living 100 yards from 12 or so compressors. Even now they are noisy, and it's down to 6. Some kind of noise abatement is going to be necessary. It's curious that Green Mountain Power recently put in a huge power upgrade on Bear Mtn Road: bigger poles, bigger power lines. Is something afoot? Has Killington already had discussions about this with GMP?

Regardless, it makes sense to do the upgrade now; having similar (identical?) equipment would simplify parts sparing. The fact that this design has variable output would make them more efficient to throttle back to what is actually needed. Still, the notion that there is a seasonal change over from being air limited to water limited seems rather quaint. Killington sure as hell isn't water limited right now, and that is going to continue to be the case.

The only disadvantages I see are the capital outlay required, although I suspect the return is fairly quick, and that in periods where Killington is asked to curtail power usage, diesel compressors allow them a little more latitude. They still have to move the water. I don't know, just seems like its time.

Some good points but they will be water limited as soon as the wet bulb drops. Reliable and efficient water distribution is the larger issue at K, not air.

The airlines also leak too... fix the water lines and let the air ones rot in places (getting ambitious here- Needle's, Snowshed, OL, Wildfire, Bunny). Less sh*t to fix in the future.

[Mister Moose]

They run the rental diesel compressors from mid October to December, with some hanging around through January. Call it an average of 75 days. How are you possibly going to make a case for buying something you use 20% of the year?

[rogman]

They run the rental diesel compressors from mid October to December, with some hanging around through January. Call it an average of 75 days. How are you possibly going to make a case for buying something you use 20% of the year?

They’re running now. Climate change means they can expect to be air limited far more often than in the past.

[newpylong1]

Seems a bit disingenuous for Killington to keep talking about "Play Forever" while still using diesel compressors that go through fuel by the tanker truck load. Isn't it time to retire them like so many other places have? I'm wondering if we'll see additional Ingersoll Rand NX-500 Centac air compressors like the new one at the base, both at the Bear and the Snowshed compressor farms in the near future.

If the Base Camp at Bear is built, the owners of those 2.5 million dollar homes are not going to like living 100 yards from 12 or so compressors. Even now they are noisy, and it's down to 6. Some kind of noise abatement is going to be necessary. It's curious that Green Mountain Power recently put in a huge power upgrade on Bear Mtn Road: bigger poles, bigger power lines. Is something afoot? Has Killington already had discussions about this with GMP?

Regardless, it makes sense to do the upgrade now; having similar (identical?) equipment would simplify parts sparing. The fact that this design has variable output would make them more efficient to throttle back to what is actually needed. Still, the notion that there is a seasonal change over from being air limited to water limited seems rather quaint. Killington sure as hell isn't water limited right now, and that is going to continue to be the case.

The only disadvantages I see are the capital outlay required, although I suspect the return is fairly quick, and that in periods where Killington is asked to curtail power usage, diesel compressors allow them a little more latitude. They still have to move the water. I don't know, just seems like its time.

Some good points but they will be water limited as soon as the wet bulb drops. Reliable and efficient water distribution is the larger issue at K, not air.

The airlines also leak too... fix the water lines and let the air ones rot in places (getting ambitious here- Needle's, Snowshed, OL, Wildfire, Bunny). Less sh*t to fix in the future.

Poor idea. Look at the size of the air lines you mentioned with the exception of Wildfire. They are all sized to feed an appropriate amount of air around the mountain. It's not as easy as tossing a 150 class butterfly on each side, isolating them and calling it good. The secondaries are not sized appropriately. Air lines are easy to fix and 95% of the leaks are valves that either won't close or have been nicked and are partially open. Either way, the air lines need to be kept and maintained regardless of whether these larger acreage trails get fan guns.

[newpylong1]

AFAIK the NX500s are in the neighborhood of $200K/a piece and then you need the associated cooling systems (not for the air, for the compressors itself) which consist of either using water or glycol loops.

Ideally in a perfect world this is all they'd have but I have been told there are capacity limits in term of power into the Basin and Bear which was traditionally limited electrical capacity.

The rentals do allow for burstable capacity with a low cost of ownership (but high usage cost) when they need for only as long as they need it. It also allows them to get around curtailment somewhat.

I do think the usage of more fans in high traffic areas (like they've been doing) and the continued usage (and additional of fixed) Low E equipment will go a long way towards taming the compressed air usage and thus the reduction of some rental units across the board. Killington already owns as much (electrical) air capacity in house as the next big players in the East. The rentals bring the capacity well above and beyond.

[rogman]

AFAIK the NX500s are in the neighborhood of $200K/a piece and then you need the associated cooling systems (not for the air, for the compressors itself) which consist of either using water or glycol loops.

Ideally in a perfect world this is all they'd have but I have been told there are capacity limits in term of power into the Basin and Bear which was traditionally limited electrical capacity.

The rentals do allow for burstable capacity with a low cost of ownership (but high usage cost) when they need for only as long as they need it. It also allows them to get around curtailment somewhat.

I do think the usage of more fans in high traffic areas (like they've been doing) and the continued usage (and additional of fixed) Low E equipment will go a long way towards taming the compressed air usage and thus the reduction of some rental units across the board.

GMP just upgraded the lines into Bear last spring.

[Big Bob]

Sunday River has all electric compressors, they are the second largest user of electricity in Maine after Bath Iron Works. With more electric cars and heat pumps tapping the grid in Vt, they will need to add capacity to the grid. More hydro power from Quebec? We have seen the push back in NH and Maine about installing more high lines...Maybe with the doubling of our power cost side of the bill the pushback may have been tempered a bit.

[Big Bob]

AFAIK the NX500s are in the neighborhood of $200K/a piece and then you need the associated cooling systems (not for the air, for the compressors itself) which consist of either using water or glycol loops.

Ideally in a perfect world this is all they'd have but I have been told there are capacity limits in term of power into the Basin and Bear which was traditionally limited electrical capacity.

The rentals do allow for burstable capacity with a low cost of ownership (but high usage cost) when they need for only as long as they need it. It also allows them to get around curtailment somewhat.

I do think the usage of more fans in high traffic areas (like they've been doing) and the continued usage (and additional of fixed) Low E equipment will go a long way towards taming the compressed air usage and thus the reduction of some rental units across the board.

GMP just upgraded the lines into Bear last spring.

Perhaps for the added real estate being proposed?

[rogman]

Perhaps for the added real estate being proposed?

Possibly, but at the time of construction they Base Camp at Bear didn’t even have act 250 approval. Seems a bit speculative to build for something that (still) might not happen.

[winter]

The added GMP service is a specific part of the approval for the Base Camp / Bear project. The specific details are part of the public record in the Act 250 docket.