easyrider16 wrote: ↑Mar 31st, '23, 07:41
asher2789 wrote: ↑Mar 31st, '23, 07:35
the problem is capitalism itself, it requires endless profits and growth on a finite planet.
I don't think that is a problem for two reasons. One, knowledge and technology can grow without taking additional natural resources, doing more with less, and that can fuel growth indefinitely. Two, as technology improves, we will be able to tap into resources of the universe outside our planet, and the universe is infinite.
asher2789 wrote: ↑Mar 31st, '23, 07:35
every single problem we are facing from climate change to poverty is because of capitalism. liberals cannot seem to wrap their minds around the fact that the system cannot be reformed and must be overthrown. some conservatives get it, as they see some of the problems, but their solution is to double down on capitalism. so long as we have black trans woman fighter pilots all is good with liberals.
I disagree. Most of the problems we are facing are related to human greed and short-sighted selfishness. That's not an indictment on capitalism, which is just a system of organizing the economy. It's an indictment on human nature. Human nature is the real problem, and you won't fix that by swapping the economic system from capitalism to something else.
asher2789 wrote: ↑Mar 31st, '23, 07:35
you say that the median income is 70k, which sounds about right, but you dont say how the price of everything has gotten completely out of control, especially housing, healthcare and higher education. those three categories far exceed normal inflation and wages have not remotely kept up. your pay can double but it means nothing if your expenses triple...
When have expenses tripled? For whom? This does not sound like our reality. I agree that housing, health care, and higher education are problematic in the U.S. It is not so in many other capitalist countries. The problem is not capitalism, it is how the U.S. implements and manages it.
I am not opposed to replacing capitalism if you can find something better. It's not a perfect system. But what do you offer that is better?
the bolded part is magical thinking and thinly veiled billionaire dick sucking. daddy musk is gonna save us all on mars! man wasnt there a movie about billionaires saving the planet by mining a comet that was in collision course with earth instead of blowing it off course and then (spoiler alert) failing? starring leonardo dicaprio? this magical thinking is the same leap of faith one requires to believe in any of the major world religions. also besides being magical thinking its plain wrong from a physics standpoint, its simply impossible to not use more natural resources. you can't create things out of thin air. can you create more efficient things? sure. but not something out of nothing.
your points on human nature arent accurate either. human nature up until the agricultural age (the majority of human history) relied heavily upon cooperation. we are on the top of the food chain
because we are a social species who learned from each other to create and use tools and make fire. with the introduction of agriculture came the introduction of bean counters, greed and by extension the divine right of kings to enforce it all, which in some form or another was "human nature" up until the enlightenment. during enlightenment capitalism was born, (over)throwing away the divine right of kings and establishing the beginning of liberal representative democracy. the leaders of the enlightenment thought that a form of government could be devised that had checks and balances to prevent corruption, selfishness and greed. but even in the structure of government they made sure to maintain class order and protect class interests (capital) of the upper class - look to the US senate here or the house of lords in england for example. and of course, our longstanding history in this country as seeing black people as less than - at one point, 3/5 of a white person. our very government structure is inherently flawed and designed intentionally this way to keep yesterdays landed gentry and todays billionaires in power.
the biggest problem with capital is that one must have capital to acquire more capital. there's an inherent flaw in the power dynamic, as labor will never be on remotely equal footing as capital, unless labor is strongly unified (see france currently for a lesson as they are collectively piling up garbage in front of their politicians houses in response to retirement reforms). that power dynamic is what makes capitalism inherently exploitative - those of us with the least amount of capital are forced to sell our bodies in one way or another, often in poor conditions. the second biggest problem is that capitalism encourages the big to eat the small, and establish monopolies or pseudo-monopolies of a few massive companies controlling their industries, across the entire economy. and with the size comes capital's ability to capture the government that "regulates" it. and therein is why i argue strongly that capitalism and the structure of our government are beyond reform. conservatives have one thing right - more regulation just leads to regulatory capture where the big companies can comply and lobby for onerous regulations that put the smaller companies out of business. unfortunately, at the same time, some regulations are necessary or our environment would be destroyed and what little labor rights we have gone.
as for inflation:
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for housing are 921.90% higher in 2023 versus 1967 (a $921,903.30 difference in value). oh, only 921.90% higher. way more than triple. nearly 10x!!!! thanks for all the gaslighting!
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for medical care are 5,296.61% higher in 2023 versus 1935 (a $52,966.13 difference in value). oh yeah, what is that, 52x inflation?
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for college tuition and fees are 1,482.01% higher in 2023 versus 1977 (a $296,402.59 difference in value). oh good, only 14x inflation.
my math might be a bit wonky with the x but its waaaaaay more that 3x for the categories i specifically called out. im just a whiny entitled millennial complaining about how ive been scammed since i was a teenager by this country. there's nothing wrong and i should shut up and work harder.
i am for some form of libertarian socialism. i dont have all the answers, but capitalism due to its inherent flaws definitely aint it.