Interconnect

[Stormchaser]

Pretty sure they don't have use of the land down to Pico Pond. I think the boundary is halfway up that hill...

[LocalSanity]

Re that map - if they're going to put in two lifts, why not put one in each drainage? It would open up a lot more possibilities for trail building (and future slopeside housing development).

Yup that would work. I was mostly focused on the top terminal of the connection lift at Pico in lower summit glades. The top terminal anywhere above easy street isn't going to work well.

[Seacoaster]

Of course it is, the radio silence on the interconnect was just to make sure no more locals were scared away from the voting yes on the TIF. The interconnect drums will start beating louder and louder until the major press release. And that will be well timed along with the presale of the real estate.

Pico was always a big part of this plan, they didn’t spend millions upgrade the snowmaking to keep it a 5 day a week feeder resort.

I was going to say the same, anyone who did/does not see this as the next natural step in this process is/was naive. It was omit on purpose, if it was discussed as the eventual reality it is, locals would not have vote for the financial liability the we are now exposed to. TIF grants have a losing track record in VT.

[easyrider16]

I was looking at some of the earlier correspondence and documents relating to the interconnect act 250 applications, and they definitely discuss the interconnect as something that would be done after raising capital from a village project. Financially I think it makes a lot of sense. Not only do you get to brag about having the most terrain, but there's a lot of property around the interconnect that can be developed into additional slope-side housing. The growth potential over the next decade is enormous.

That said, all kinds of things can happen. Vacation homes follow a boom/bust cycle that isn't always predictable. Just look at Killington housing prices in 2015/16.

[rogman]

Of course it is, the radio silence on the interconnect was just to make sure no more locals were scared away from the voting yes on the TIF. The interconnect drums will start beating louder and louder until the major press release. And that will be well timed along with the presale of the real estate.

Pico was always a big part of this plan, they didn’t spend millions upgrade the snowmaking to keep it a 5 day a week feeder resort.

I was going to say the same, anyone who did/does not see this as the next natural step in this process is/was naive. It was omit on purpose, if it was discussed as the eventual reality it is, locals would not have vote for the financial liability the we are now exposed to. TIF grants have a losing track record in VT.

Lot of opinions expressed as statements of fact here. At a casual glance, TIFs appear to have been fairly successful in increasing taxable value In Vermont. However, I’ve neither the time nor inclination to do your homework. Here’s the data; prove your point:
https://legislature.vermont.gov/assets/ ... -Final.pdf

[rogman]

Assuming the Interconnect gets built at some point, people need to consider several pertinent facts:

Killington has Act 250 approval, it seems unlikely that they’d want to revisit that unnecessarily.

The James Niehaus future trail map gives a rough indication of what was approved and shows general trail layout, and from that can be inferred the top and bottom location of the two lifts, but it is not topographically accurate. Presumably it’s based on the Act 250 approval.

Little Pico is 3100 feet tall, there’s a saddle behind it that’s maybe 100 feet lower. The true top of Ramshead is about 3600. The Otten/Niehaus trail map shows the trail towards Pico going behind Little Pico. I assume that was imposed by the Act 250 negotiations. Thus there is little vertical to play with, 600’ from the top of Ramshead, several hundred feet less if the current top is used. The latter is not feasible, IMO.

The land is privately held, not state or federal. It is a long term lease by Killington. It’s apparent from the Niehaus map the lease doesn’t go all the way down to Pico Pond, it ends somewhere upslope. It probably doesn’t cross the road that heads toward the pond either.

Bottom line, Killington does not have a blank slate. My guess is the approval is sufficiently vague that some adjustments are doable, but where the line gets drawn is anyone’s guess.

[jimmywilson69]

There are undoubtedly engineering drawings included in the Act 250 approval if someone is so inclined to dig that up.

[rogman]

There are undoubtedly engineering drawings included in the Act 250 approval if someone is so inclined to dig that up.

Probably so old not on line.

[Mistergiff]

The land is privately held, not state or federal. It is a long term lease by Killington. It’s apparent from the Niehaus map the lease doesn’t go all the way down to Pico Pond, it ends somewhere upslope. It probably doesn’t cross the road that heads toward the pond either.

Bottom line, Killington does not have a blank slate. My guess is the approval is sufficiently vague that some adjustments are doable, but where the line gets drawn is anyone’s guess.

Check out the Town's property maps, amazing resource, https://next.axisgis.com/KillingtonVT/# Whoever controls Pico Pond LLC with its near 2200 acres holds all the keys to the interconnect and massive future development potential.

[Nikoli]

Where is highway star when you need him? He had this all mapped out

[newpylong1]

"What I think they need is a fast double".... Gah those maps of his.

[snowmaster]

Highwaystar was keen to endorse this. There is far too much developable terrain between Swirl and Summit Glades to reduce it all to a couple crossover trails. The base a bit further down Killington Rd is already approved by act 250, and K needs the parking. If they start small there, beginning with renewed summit access to Ramshead, and don't cut everything 250 feet wide, I think theyll find a way to get the regulatory aproval for the lift that ties it all together, and serves the choicest new terrain: one from Pico Pond to the summit of Pico. As they build ever closer, they state won't have much left to fight for. The buisness relationship with Pico Pond LLC has been in place for years; they won't turn down a vastly inflated lease payment for the room Killington needs to become the one and only east coast destination resort. The property they have that will not be lifts and trails will appreciate very generously.

I agree that Stormchaser's traverse isn't doable, let alone that it starts at the top of the Poma; the Pico-side lift isn't avoidable, no matter how minimalist you want this done. But what can be done at a grade more palatable than Juggernaut, or what's left of it, is a beginner run from the top of Pico that comes out just under the top of the current Ramshead Edpress, and feeds directly into Caper.

[Eddytheyetti]

While you guys are at it drop a surface lift down to the elementary school. That would really add some value for the locals.


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[Skivt2]

That map is absurd. It pretends that the top of pico has WAY more space then it does. It’s not a broad wide area. There is not much space between the trails up there. Lots of drainages and folds. There is not enough room for another lift unless you take out KA. The idea that trails could just flow from the summit to the top of outpost is clearly a figment of imagination from someone who has never been in that back country. If you try to ski it you will quickly find yourself in a drainage that heads towards the town garages. The only way back to Outpost is to hike up and over two ridges from down into two seperate drainages. It not even close to realistic.

[snowmaster]

Ya know, I'm a friendly guy, not prone to excessive disagreement, but your lack of navigation ability in the trees does not tell a complete story about that terrain. The contour lines don't lie. And the singular trail to the top of Outpost isn't supposed to be some fabulous new exciting beginner trail. It's supposed to be a 15 foot wide improvement over scooting uphill on That-A-Way. I know, I know, you can't tell that from the map. But if you're so intimately familiar with the area, think a little about how things might be intended. I'm not one of those yahoo's who can't read a topo map and draws trails uphill. I ain't Sel Hannah either, but...

Pico is a crowded, pointy summit. But it's easy to forget the space that is available uphill of the Summit Express top terminal, and off what we currently think of the backside. I've played with leaving that lift as is, and running a base to summit lift along the line of the old Birch Glade chair. The primary difficulty is that any such alignment that would keep some trees between it and Pike crosses over the bottom of Golden Express which would lead to a real awkward base area layout.

There is space beyond Summit Glade for trails to leave the top. The largest challenge would be engineering a way to get beginners off the top and back towards Ramshead. It would probably look like the switchbacks at the top of Lollapalooza. There would be some short south facing sections of trails before trails turned east. Clever use of shade would help, but I don't think anyone looks at the interconnect, and Pico, as something that's going to be open past mid April.