Superstar 2023

[newpylong1]

Somehow Boyne is simultaneously funding lifts, new terrain, and snowmaking at their properties. Even if POWDR wants to take a more reasonable and tempered approach (given how much K1 lodge was), the snowmaking needs to be priority #1 for the foreseeable future. Replacing 30 year old compressors and pipe is maintenance, not a capital improvement. I have mentioned it several times but Boyne has made the investment at SR to be able to put damn near as much water onto any one individual trail pod than K can pump resort wide. They also have the fixed infrastructure in place to charge the hill and then send groups of two down each trail to bring equipment online and see ya in 48 hours to shut it down when the pod is done. Killington is in 1998 and so far away from being able to do that it's not even funny. Brute force only wins in marginal years of which yes, we've had plenty.

[snoloco]

No disagreement that Killington is being trounced by Sunday River and doing nothing about it, which is really frustrating. But having fixed equipment matters a lot more in marginal years than good ones. In years that were good, I remember Killington finishing their build out in mid January, except for Dreammaker.

[daytripper]

No disagreement that Killington is being trounced by Sunday River and doing nothing about it, which is really frustrating. But having fixed equipment matters a lot more in marginal years than good ones. In years that were good, I remember Killington finishing their build out in mid January, except for Dreammaker.

Marginal years are the norm now. Good years get fewer and further between.

[Southside_Bobby]

As we all know, K's snowmaking "infrastructure" is not only outdated from a physical standpoint (pipes etc that are being relied upon well past their realistic lifespan), it is tremendously labor intensive. Some might even say ridiculously so. That is the opposite of investing in the future. That is throwing money away.

As for the lift infrastructure, it is also way behind the times. I am not a fan of Vail and their blindness of east coast skiing culture, but the lifts they put in at Mt. Snow last year are awesome. As is the work at Okemo.

K is so far behind, it will take a decade of investment committed to snowmaking and lifts simultaneously to catch up to where others are right now. K did a lot of stuff all at once (S6,SRQ,Tunnels, RFID), which seemed major to us. But that was after doing almost nothing for a decade.

Replacing Superstar next year may just be rumor, but it shouldn't be. Every year they go without replacing a lift AS WELL AS doing something major with snowmaking, Powdr is just taking in money without investing nearly enough back. 'Cause they certainly won't be really trying to keep up with the competition.

I can already hear all the armchair economists, snarking about how much things cost, and how much it will raise ticket prices.

Tell it to the competition.

[newpylong1]

No disagreement that Killington is being trounced by Sunday River and doing nothing about it, which is really frustrating. But having fixed equipment matters a lot more in marginal years than good ones. In years that were good, I remember Killington finishing their build out in mid January, except for Dreammaker.

That is anecdotal. In marginal years K can get away with "brute force" ie lugging Rats and K guns around the earth and back and using a ton of air because the fixed equipment (Low E) falls on it's face quicker. It's physics. Also there are plenty of hours without temps that all this gear can be moved around the hill.

[ski]

it will raise ticket prices.

It already has

[Mister Moose]

Killington still has

1st to open
Highest number of operating days
Last to close
Good terrain
Gets good snow, although not as good as points north
Better snowmaking than points north
The ability to run 225-250 guns at once

Seemed like it was pretty busy last season in spite of all the aging infrastructure. This season a full pass is $1,369 right now, the Epic pass is $949. Killington costs 44% more than Stowe, Mt Snow or Okemo. The IKON pass is $1,259. They don't seem too worried about market share.

So while not everything is shiny, I would personally rather have a slow double on a powder day than a HSQ on a boilerplate day. It's reliability for me, not brand new toys. If Killington can get the employees to the hill and keep the lifts running through snow, ice, below zero and when the pass is closed, and if they make snow like the beast they proclaim to be, then that's what counts.

Their eyes are on the next big remake of the Snowshed-Ramshead base lodges and lifts. Pipes will get fixed as they break. Pump and compressor upgrades. New snow guns will be purchased. Unless some lift develops a terminal defect, I predict a new groomer long before a new lift.

It would be nice if they ran a grader over the parking lots.

[boston_e]

Seemed like it was pretty busy last season in spite of all the aging infrastructure. This season a full pass is $1,369 right now, the Epic pass is $949. Killington costs 44% more than Stowe, Mt Snow or Okemo. The IKON pass is $1,259. They don't seem too worried about market share.

IIRC - the difference between a full Killington season pass and the IKON was bigger at the early season purchase time.

[KingsFourMan]

Less is more Otten is to blame for most of the deferred maintenance that Pwdr is still dealing with. He did a tremendous amount of damage to Killington and it's reputation.

[eagle628]

Unless some lift develops a terminal defect, I predict a new groomer long before a new lift.

They'd better be buying a new groomer (at least one) every single winter. That's not capital investment, that's just keeping up with attrition in a fleet the size of theirs.

[newpylong1]

Less is more Otten is to blame for most of the deferred maintenance that Pwdr is still dealing with. He did a tremendous amount of damage to Killington and it's reputation.

At this point you can't paint ASC as the scapegoat, they haven't owned the place since 2007 - 16 years!

I also disagree on the damage to reputation. Despite having nosediving finances, they still blew the snot out of the place right to the end and provided good value. The early POWDR bean counters did more damage than anyone.

[brownman]

Newpy Nailed it again.
..Ancient history is just that ..

Yeah they need lots of stuff, but until a catastrophic event occurs .. Rock On !

[machski]

Just finished Mike S's SSPC episode. Yes, SS still sounds high on the list for a lift replacement, but so does Snowshed and RH depending on village timeline (wisely doesn't want to replace either of those until the final village site plan is locked in. Or he'd get the move the base of the brand new lift that Steamboat pulled with the original Steamboat Gondola last season). My money would be on a two year build for a SS replacement. The prep and foundations poured as much as possible year 1 with a rapid component install year 2. Since SS will be a detach, cannot use the North Ridge FGQ build timeline as a template. The future Snowshed replacement chair alignment could also factor into the sighting of a shifted SS chair base. So my guess is all 3 chaairs will be held until a final baseplan with the village.

[snoloco]

Superstar has zero effect on the village. If they do a 2 year build then they have to start the process now. The old lift isn't going to keep running forever. It's already one of the oldest detachables still in service, and is a problematic model.

[Andrew B.]

Less is more Otten

A catchy OLD pun but not really relevant at this point.