Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

[daytripper]

You get lost with a bunch of kids you get fired. K did the right thing.

Who do we fire for the other 20 People getting Lost int the woods? Mike Solimano? Seems to be a much larger problem then a dopey instructor.

Those people weren't kids left in the care of an employee. Apples to oranges.

[Pedro]

You get lost with a bunch of kids you get fired. K did the right thing.

Who do we fire for the other 20 People getting Lost int the woods? Mike Solimano? Seems to be a much larger problem then a dopey instructor.

Those people weren't kids left in the care of an employee. Apples to oranges.

The average person who skis Killington on a weekend or holiday can't get from Ramshead to Bear Mountain without a map, let alone identify the unmarked resort boundaries, so it's like watermelons to watermelons.

When twenty individuals from multiple groups find themselves lost in the woods at different times on the same day, it's evident that there was negligence on behalf of the resort, and they should be liable for any death or injury that could have occurred as a result.

Killington is obligated to provide a safe experience for all skiers and riders, whether they are 50 years old or five years old, employees or park rats. You don't get to pick and choose.

[easyrider16]

In Europe the ski resorts have almost no warning signs or boundary markings regarding the many cliffs and hazards everywhere, and somehow most patrons seem able to figure it out.

I don't think K has an obligation to keep stupid people from doing stupid things of their own accord. I do think they have an obligation to ensure that children entrusted to the care of their instructors are kept safe. These are two very different things.

[Pedro]

In Europe the ski resorts have almost no warning signs or boundary markings regarding the many cliffs and hazards everywhere, and somehow most patrons seem able to figure it out.

I don't think K has an obligation to keep stupid people from doing stupid things of their own accord. I do think they have an obligation to ensure that children entrusted to the care of their instructors are kept safe. These are two very different things.

They absolutely have an obligation to prevent people from doing stupid things.

That's why patrol pulls passes for poaching or skiing recklessly, and they don't let you ride down outer limits in a tractor tube.

Killington Leadership is also responsible for the snow sports instructors' actions and behaviour, from onboarding, training and establishing standard procedures that the instructors should follow.

Even if they didn't have to be concerned about liability, it's a horrible look for the mountain and a drain on resources for the mountain, KSAR and law enforcement. I also suspect POWDR is not too happy when things like this happen and that they would hold there leaders accountable.

[asher2789]

This was the entrance to Coops yesterday. You need to ski around the chicane and pass some very ominous signage. They are not attempting to close off backcountry access

excellent reconnaissance work! i havent been out that way in a while.

[asher2789]

It does appear that this was a "fire people, pull passes, and ask questions later" situation.

however much folks wanna put "blame" on the mtn, they really had no choice but but to fire the instructor. whether or not she was "led" out of bounds by a bunch of five year olds, what parent in their right mind would trust their children w this particular instructor or any instructor at k for that matter moving forward. so they took swift, decisive action as was appropriate. scapegoat maybe, but no way could they just sweep it under the carpet. btw this wasn't some rookie instructor, she had worked for the resort 6 years.

where did you hear this? i heard from very close sources that she was newer to the mtn, lived in employee housing and was part of the castleton program, but taught elsewhere prior. the kids were part of the woodward program and are regulars, they were supposedly bragging about their adventure the next day.

the coach deserved being fired, and im usually one to take the employees side on most things but you cant let five year olds lead the way. very bad decision making even though once she realized she screwed up she did whatever she could to make it better including carrying one of the kids down to wheelerville.

the mountain, especially snowsports, has had a massive turnover problem for years now where they push out the most qualified and talented people due to absurdly offensively low pay. they lost most of their snowboard training staff with probably at least 100 years of combined experience in the past few years - many still with the company but in other departments that actually pay. management needs to be completely revamped the same people have been in the same positions running that program into the ground for a while now. in case yall are unfamiliar, coaches get ~$20 an hour sometimes not even and only get paid if they have a lesson. they get a 15 minute lineup and can be cut for the day, or asked to come back later, for another 15 minute lineup and sometimes no lesson. do they get paid in between while essentially remaining on call? no. is this legal? doubtful! when you have well off retired old skiers (of all people!) talking about unionizing youve done f*** up.

[ski]

the same people have been in the same positions running that program into the ground for a while now.

They could save a lot of money eliminating Dave B's position . . What does he actually do?

[Guy in Shorts]

It does appear that this was a "fire people, pull passes, and ask questions later" situation.

however much folks wanna put "blame" on the mtn, they really had no choice but but to fire the instructor. whether or not she was "led" out of bounds by a bunch of five year olds, what parent in their right mind would trust their children w this particular instructor or any instructor at k for that matter moving forward. so they took swift, decisive action as was appropriate. scapegoat maybe, but no way could they just sweep it under the carpet. btw this wasn't some rookie instructor, she had worked for the resort 6 years.

where did you hear this? i heard from very close sources that she was newer to the mtn, lived in employee housing and was part of the castleton program, but taught elsewhere prior. the kids were part of the woodward program and are regulars, they were supposedly bragging about their adventure the next day.

the coach deserved being fired, and im usually one to take the employees side on most things but you cant let five year olds lead the way. very bad decision making even though once she realized she screwed up she did whatever she could to make it better including carrying one of the kids down to wheelerville.

Asher is spot on with all details. I may add that the fired employee was immediately rehired by the old mountain that she had come from.

[Heywood jablowmee]

Dubious at best. Should there be any truth to this?… they’re borderline complicit when they phuk up again . Truly scary

[Pedro]

It does appear that this was a "fire people, pull passes, and ask questions later" situation.

however much folks wanna put "blame" on the mtn, they really had no choice but but to fire the instructor. whether or not she was "led" out of bounds by a bunch of five year olds, what parent in their right mind would trust their children w this particular instructor or any instructor at k for that matter moving forward. so they took swift, decisive action as was appropriate. scapegoat maybe, but no way could they just sweep it under the carpet. btw this wasn't some rookie instructor, she had worked for the resort 6 years.

where did you hear this? i heard from very close sources that she was newer to the mtn, lived in employee housing and was part of the castleton program, but taught elsewhere prior. the kids were part of the woodward program and are regulars, they were supposedly bragging about their adventure the next day.

the coach deserved being fired, and im usually one to take the employees side on most things but you cant let five year olds lead the way. very bad decision making even though once she realized she screwed up she did whatever she could to make it better including carrying one of the kids down to wheelerville.

the mountain, especially snowsports, has had a massive turnover problem for years now where they push out the most qualified and talented people due to absurdly offensively low pay. they lost most of their snowboard training staff with probably at least 100 years of combined experience in the past few years - many still with the company but in other departments that actually pay. management needs to be completely revamped the same people have been in the same positions running that program into the ground for a while now. in case yall are unfamiliar, coaches get ~$20 an hour sometimes not even and only get paid if they have a lesson. they get a 15 minute lineup and can be cut for the day, or asked to come back later, for another 15 minute lineup and sometimes no lesson. do they get paid in between while essentially remaining on call? no. is this legal? doubtful! when you have well off retired old skiers (of all people!) talking about unionizing youve done f*** up.

Terminating is extreme unless this was intentional or the instructors are explicitly required to lead the kids. Still, as you stated, Killington doesn't give a sh*t about the instructors, so termination is easy enough for them; I guess that is the culture they want to establish.

[asher2789]

the same people have been in the same positions running that program into the ground for a while now.

They could save a lot of money eliminating Dave B's position . . What does he actually do?

he runs ski school for k and pico, golf, mountain biking, and rentals. and maybe some more things im forgetting. ive got a lot of opinions on the man, but its a smalllllllllll town and im not trying to make my life any more difficult than it already is. but yeah, in short, i agree.

to be fair, i think there needs to be a shake up of a lot of management. too many people in positions of power for too long not allowing positive changes to happen or actively preventing them.

[asher2789]

It does appear that this was a "fire people, pull passes, and ask questions later" situation.

however much folks wanna put "blame" on the mtn, they really had no choice but but to fire the instructor. whether or not she was "led" out of bounds by a bunch of five year olds, what parent in their right mind would trust their children w this particular instructor or any instructor at k for that matter moving forward. so they took swift, decisive action as was appropriate. scapegoat maybe, but no way could they just sweep it under the carpet. btw this wasn't some rookie instructor, she had worked for the resort 6 years.

where did you hear this? i heard from very close sources that she was newer to the mtn, lived in employee housing and was part of the castleton program, but taught elsewhere prior. the kids were part of the woodward program and are regulars, they were supposedly bragging about their adventure the next day.

the coach deserved being fired, and im usually one to take the employees side on most things but you cant let five year olds lead the way. very bad decision making even though once she realized she screwed up she did whatever she could to make it better including carrying one of the kids down to wheelerville.

the mountain, especially snowsports, has had a massive turnover problem for years now where they push out the most qualified and talented people due to absurdly offensively low pay. they lost most of their snowboard training staff with probably at least 100 years of combined experience in the past few years - many still with the company but in other departments that actually pay. management needs to be completely revamped the same people have been in the same positions running that program into the ground for a while now. in case yall are unfamiliar, coaches get ~$20 an hour sometimes not even and only get paid if they have a lesson. they get a 15 minute lineup and can be cut for the day, or asked to come back later, for another 15 minute lineup and sometimes no lesson. do they get paid in between while essentially remaining on call? no. is this legal? doubtful! when you have well off retired old skiers (of all people!) talking about unionizing youve done f*** up.

Terminating is extreme unless this was intentional or the instructors are explicitly required to lead the kids. Still, as you stated, Killington doesn't give a sh*t about the instructors, so termination is easy enough for them; I guess that is the culture they want to establish.

theres a lot of "extreme" things you can get terminated for (and this is by no means conclusive): skiing/riding out of bounds in uniform on the clock, calling in sick/missing work for whatever reason and going skiing/riding that day (unless one got hurt skiing/riding and has to miss work after, thats frowned on but ok unless theres a pattern), drinking/drug use on the clock, lending your pass to someone else, selling your comp tickets, teaching lessons for $ outside of ski school on k/pico property, ducking ropes/going on closed trails on the clock unless its part of your job duties (or doing it enough times off the clock + other performance issues), physical fights on k/pico property (regardless if on the clock or not), theft, threats, sexual harassment... theres more im probably forgetting but all of those are pretty much terminable offenses on first offense.

killington does have a habit of having bad apples take a year off and then come back, so theres a chance that this coach could be reinvited next year to work for the mountain. you have to really f*** up to not be given that as an option when they exit you. i think because this was an honest mistake that the coach did the best they could to remedy once they realized their f*** up and wasnt intentional, that theyll get an invite to come back next year. maybe. it says a lot more about the training (or lack thereof) and decision making of upper management that led to this lack of training far more than it says about the coach who went out of bounds.

also, coaches are explicitly supposed to lead the kids. 5 year olds dont have the life experience to make decisions on what trails to ski/how to get to them. sure they can provide input ("do you guys wanna do swirl or header?" "header!") but the coach is the one who runs the show.

and coaches are totally expendable. management doesnt see them as the skilled irreplaceable labor they are, which is why they have J1s who have never skied or snowboarded before teaching young childrens lessons. management does not care about the product as far as i can tell, the majority of the product is for beginners who simply dont know any better that theyre being taken advantage of. they dont know that the lessons theyre getting are subpar or downright bad, and management sees labor as numbers in a spreadsheet and not actual people with decades of teaching and skiing/riding experience. the coaching staff used to be aspirational, some of the best on the mountain and even in the east, but now even the great coaches are being told not to do any skiing/riding maneuvers outside of what the lesson focus is. so for example in snowboarding, friends of mine are being told theyre not allowed to butter, spin, jib, do anything unless theyre specifically teaching their students those maneuvers. takes the fun out of it for the coach being micromanaged on how to ski/ride, and takes the aspirational aspect out of it for the guest. why continue to take lessons if theyre boring as hell? vs you see the coach doing something cool and you want to learn how to do it too so you take more lessons to reach that point. its so f*** dumb and i 100% guarantee this policy in particular is coming from the new risk management f*** idiot lawyer. i know at least 5 people with decades of experience working for k not coming back next year because mismanagement is actively killing the program.

[rogman]

I’ll take the heat for getting it wrong on the 6 years at K. It’s likely I was told 6 years experience and heard it as 6 years experience at Killington. I also heard she was in employee housing. Those two items should have triggered a “that doesn’t add up” response by me. My bad, Sorry K.

[Bubba]

its a smalllllllllll town and im not trying to make my life any more difficult than it already is. but yeah, in short, i agree.

to be fair, i think there needs to be a shake up of a lot of management. too many people in positions of power for too long not allowing positive changes to happen or actively preventing them.

I'm trying to reconcile the first comment with what follows in this post and in many others that criticize the resort and its management.