DNC / CTR online Astroturfing in full effect!

[deadheadskier]

Highwaystar

"Died in" vs "died because of" are two very different things. "Because of" is what is being argued as the higher number.

"Because of" is also probably the more impactful figure to study when we look at disaster response.

Look at 9/11. Very high mortality rate with first responders years after the fact. What were they exposed to at ground zero? Did we do everything possible to make sure they had the protection they needed and deserved? A lot of these brave people likely would still be living today if 9/11 didn't happen.

In regards to Puerto Rico though, let's put the death calculation aside. How the F could anyone claim the federal response was a success? The place had a huge percentage of infrastructure with no power for MONTHS. 43% of the island was still without power 100 days after the storm. Over 1.5 million people. When have you ever heard of anything close to that happening in the States? You haven't.

The population of PR is about the same as Maine and New Hampshire combined. Think what the national outrage would be if 43% of those states were still without electricity 100 days after a storm. The outrage towards a sitting President to allow that to happen on their watch would be unlike any we've seen in modern history towards a President.

Such a thing would also NEVER happen in the 50 States.

So why did Trump allow it to happen in Puerto Rico? Shouldn't all Americans facing disaster expect the federal government to see through adequate and equal response?


And let's not forget the Trump Administration gave a $300 million dollar contract to to a two man company who were buddies with Ryan Zinke to head up these efforts. Is that not the very definition of swamp?

Please put all these realities together in your head and take the facts presented as they are without political bias.

The handling of Puerto Rico was shameful for America. But, Trump continues to take victory laps.

Defend to the group why his success evaluation is appropriate. I'm open to hearing why Trump's victory laps are warranted and worthy of praise and support.

Prove to us you don't have blind devotion.

[Kpdemello]

Look man, the only reason this is a headline story is because Trump lied about the Puerto Rico relief effort and called it an "unsung success" and then later tweeted that the Democrats were inflating the death toll - those are either blatant lies or Trump is delusional. All this talk about the official death toll is kind of a distraction from the real issue.

If you want to talk about the relief effort itself, it's not hard to google it and see a sh*t ton of reports (most of which hadn't gotten much play until the President's comments) about how bad things are and how bad the relief effort has been.

http://aldianews.com/articles/politics/ ... very/53803" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/13/62886180 ... r-response" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video ... -they-help" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... 43dd93b1fa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ng/544210/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I mean it took me 5 minutes to find those stories. There are many more out there. Even FEMA admitted its response was inadequate. I couldn't find a single story about the relief effort being an "unsung success." Trump is literally the only one saying that.

[Guy in Shorts]

The Donald Speak is like your Mom telling you that you are the best! You know that its not really true but it still makes you feel good. Puerto Rico has relied on the US to rebuild it’s power grid post storm for decades now. Been awhile since they took a good hit so they were overdue. They are a rich Caribbean nation but lower than dirt poor when compared to an American standard of living. Remember thinking back in the 70’s when touring around the island that folks moving to any housing project on the mainland would be a huge leap forward in their standard of living. All they had to do was uproot their lives and leave this tropical paradise. Will report back first hand as we are flying to San Juan this winter.

[Kpdemello]

The Donald Speak is like your Mom telling you that you are the best! You know that its not really true but it still makes you feel good.

Except he's talking about himself instead of you.

[Highway Star]

Yeah, they did nothing.

The entirety of Puerto Rico was declared a Federal Disaster Zone shortly after the hurricane.[138] The Federal Emergency Management Agency planned to open an air bridge with three to four aircraft carrying essential supplies to the island daily starting on September 22.[103] Beyond flights involving the relief effort, limited commercial traffic resumed at Luis Muñoz Marín International Airport on September 22 under primitive conditions. A dozen commercial flights operated daily as of September 26.[139] By October 3, there were 39 commercial flights per day from all Puerto Rican airports, about a quarter of the normal number.[140] The next day, airports were reported to be operating at normal capacity.[141] In marked contrast to the initial relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina and the 2010 Haiti earthquake, on September 22, the only signs of relief efforts were beleaguered Puerto Rican government employees.[142] The territory's government contracted 56 small companies to assist in restoring power.[138] Eight FEMA Urban Search & Rescue (US&R) teams were deployed to assist in rescue efforts.[143]

Debris-clogged roads added to logistical challenges faced by rescue and relief crews.
On September 24, the amphibious assault ship USS Kearsarge and the dock landing ship USS Oak Hill under Rear Admiral Jeffrey W. Hughes along with the 2,400 marines of the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit arrived to assist in relief efforts.[144][145][146][147] By September 24, there were thirteen United States Coast Guard ships deployed around Puerto Rico assisting in the relief and restoration efforts: the National Security Cutter USCGC James; the medium endurance cutters USCGC Diligence, USCGC Forward, USCGC Venturous, and USCGC Valiant; the fast response cutters USCGC Donald Horsley, USCGC Heriberto Hernandez, USCGC Joseph Napier, USCGC Richard Dixon, and USCGC Winslow W. Griesser; the coastal patrol boat USCGC Yellowfin; and the seagoing buoy tenders USCGC Cypress and USCGC Elm.[148] Federal aid arrived on September 25 with the reopening of major ports. Eleven cargo vessels collectively carrying 1.3 million liters of water, 23,000 cots, and dozens of generators arrived.[149] Full operations at the ports of Guayanilla, Salinas, and Tallaboa resumed on September 25, while the ports of San Juan, Fajardo, Culebra, Guayama, and Vieques had limited operations.[143] The United States Air Force Air Mobility Command has dedicated eight C-17 Globemaster aircraft to deliver relief supplies.[143] The Air Force assisted the Federal Aviation Administration with air traffic control repairs to increase throughput capacity.[143]

The United States Transportation Command moved additional personnel and eight U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters from Fort Campbell, Kentucky to Luis Muñoz Marín International Airport to increase distribution capacity.[143] The United States Army Corps of Engineers deployed 670 personnel engaged in assessing and restoring the power grid; as of September 25, 83 generators were installed and an additional 186 generators were en route.[143] As of September 26, agencies of the U.S. government had delivered four million meals, six million liters of water, 70,000 tarps and 15,000 rolls of roof sheeting.[150] National Guard troops were activated and deployed to Puerto Rico from Connecticut, Georgia, Iowa, Illinois, Kentucky, Missouri, New York, Rhode Island, and Wisconsin.[151]

Members of the South Carolina National Guard assisting with clean up efforts in Caguas
On September 29, the hospital ship USNS Comfort left port at Norfolk, Virginia to help victims of Hurricanes Irma and Maria, and arrived in San Juan on October 3. A couple of days later, Comfort departed on an around the island tour to assist, remaining a dozen miles off shore.[152] Patients were brought to the ship by helicopter or boat tender after being referred by Puerto Rico's Department of Health. However, most of the 250 bed floating state-of-the-art hospital went unused despite overburdened island clinics and hospitals because there were few referrals.[153][154] Governor Rosselló explained on or about October 17 that "The disconnect or the apparent disconnect was in the communications flow" and added "I asked for a complete revision of that so that we can now start sending more patients over there."[154] After remaining offshore for three weeks, the Comfort docked in San Juan on October 27, briefly departing only once to restock at sea from a naval resupply ship.[152] As of November 8, Comfort's staff had treated 1,476 patients, including 147 surgeries and two births.[155]

On September 27, the Pentagon reopened two major airfields on Puerto Rico and started sending aircraft, specialized units, and a hospital ship to assist in the relief effort; Brigadier General Richard C. Kim, the deputy commanding general of United States Army North, was responsible for coordinating operations between the military, FEMA and other government agencies, and the private sector.[156] Massive amounts of water, food, and fuel either had been delivered to ports in Puerto Rico or were held up at ports in the mainland United States because there was a lack of truck drivers to move the goods into the interior; the lack of communication networks hindered the effort as only 20% of drivers reported to work.[157] As of September 28, the Port of San Juan had only been able to dispatch 4% of deliveries received and had very little room to accept additional shipments.[158] As of September 28, 44 percent of the population remained without drinking water and the U.S. military was shifting from "a short term, sea-based response to a predominantly land-based effort designed to provide robust, longer term support" with fuel delivery a top priority.[159] A joint Army National Guard and Marine expeditionary unit (MEU) team established an Installation Staging Base at the former Roosevelt Roads Naval Station; they transported via helicopter Department of Health and Human Services assessment teams to hospitals across Puerto Rico to determine medical requirements.[159] On September 29, the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp which had been providing relief activities to the island of Dominica was diverted to Puerto Rico.[160] As of September 30, FEMA official Alejandro de la Campa stated that 5% of electricity, 33% of the telecommunications infrastructure, and 50% of water services had been restored to the island.[161]

More than a week after Hurricane Maria struck, residents of Ponce, Puerto Rico wait in long lines at an ATM to withdraw cash.[162]
On September 28, 2017, Lieutenant General Jeffrey S. Buchanan was dispatched to Puerto Rico to lead all military hurricane relief efforts there and to see how the military could be more effective in the recovery effort, particularly in dealing with the thousands of containers of supplies that were stuck in port because of "red tape, lack of drivers, and a crippling power outage".[163][164] On September 29 he stated that there were not enough troops and equipment in place but more would be arriving soon.

On October 13, the Trump administration requested $4.9 billion to fund a loan program that Puerto Rico could use to address basic functions and infrastructure needs.[174]

From leftist controlled Wikipedia.

[Kpdemello]

Um. No one said nothing was done.

The press asked Mr. Orange if he learned any lessons from the relief effort. Mr. Orange replied it was an "unsung success," and then later tweeted that Democrats were artificially inflating the death toll.

It was not an "unsung success." There are multiple reports that the relief effort was botched, and no one is calling it and "unsung success" except Trump. Quick excerpt from one of the articles I posted above:

Above all, the self-admitted failure of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to adequately prepare for and respond to Hurricane Maria is a glaring piece of the puzzle — regardless of the fact that the agency has, since the disaster, funneled $2.6 billion in aid to Puerto Rico, and that their response to Maria represents the longest continued food and water relief mission in the agency’s history. In an internal report made public on July 12, FEMA acknowledged that it was unprepared for a storm like Hurricane Maria in the region, as 90 percent of the emergency supplies stored on the island had been depleted after being shipped to the U.S. Virgin Islands following Hurricane Irma on Sept. 7. The agency then ran into multiple issues in carrying out relief efforts on the ground due to limited communication means and lack of knowledge about the island’s infrastructure.

Furthermore, the death toll has not been inflated by Democrats - that was a blatant lie. See above, the death toll calculations were the result of multiple studies by multiple parties at different universities.

So basically all of the stuff you posted isn't really relevant.

[XtremeJibber2001]

So basically all of the stuff you posted isn't really relevant.

Red Herring or Ignoratio elenchi - Attempting to redirect the argument to another issue to which the person doing the redirecting can better respond. While it is similar to the avoiding the issue fallacy, the red herring is a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.

[Kpdemello]

The thing is, this story is all Trump's fault.

If he was a normal human and said something like, "There was a massive relief effort at Puerto Rico involving multiple agencies and billions of dollars of aid. There were great difficulties encountered due to geography and the immense devastation from the storm. I'm confident that the people involved in that effort have learned a great deal from their experiences and we hope to apply what we can to this new storm, but it's a very different scenario with different geography and different infrastructure and needs." And then he could blah blah blah about all the plans in place. If he had said something like that it'd be completely non-controversial. In fact I bet you fell asleep reading it.

But of course he's not a normal person and he had to go and brag about how Puerto Rico was the best relief effort in the history of relief efforts. Which is just stupid, and opened him up to all this criticism. So stop blaming the MSM or the left or whatever other phantoms you want to invent. Trump is being criticized because he's inept.

[Highway Star]

"Died in" vs "died because of" are two very different things. "Because of" is what is being argued as the higher number.

The people who these leftist academics claim "died because of" the hurricane actually DIED BECAUSE OF being old, frail, and/or had previous medical conditions.

[Highway Star]

The thing is, this story is all Trump's fault.

If he was a normal human and said something like, "There was a massive relief effort at Puerto Rico involving multiple agencies and billions of dollars of aid. There were great difficulties encountered due to geography and the immense devastation from the storm. I'm confident that the people involved in that effort have learned a great deal from their experiences and we hope to apply what we can to this new storm, but it's a very different scenario with different geography and different infrastructure and needs." And then he could blah blah blah about all the plans in place. If he had said something like that it'd be completely non-controversial. In fact I bet you fell asleep reading it.

But of course he's not a normal person and he had to go and brag about how Puerto Rico was the best relief effort in the history of relief efforts. Which is just stupid, and opened him up to all this criticism. So stop blaming the MSM or the left or whatever other phantoms you want to invent. Trump is being criticized because he's inept.

He already said what you said to say, multiple times. Trump punches back and stirs up the controversies on purpose, because he's right.

[Highway Star]

I strongly recommend we give PR it's independence. Look how well Haiti turned out!

[madhatter]

I strongly recommend we give PR it's independence. Look how well Haiti turned out!

if only they would accept that...they continually vote to remain a territory, never to become a US state or an independent country...

[Kpdemello]

He already said what you said to say, multiple times. Trump punches back and stirs up the controversies on purpose, because he's right.

Only a blind follower sees it this way.

What I see is that Trump talks out of his ass, saying things like Puerto Rico was the best relief effort ever, when it is clear that he knows little to nothing about the subject matter. He only punches back when the media calls him out on his bullsh!t. And when he punches back, it's typically with blatant lies, like the democrats inflated the death toll, which we know is false.

[Highway Star]

He already said what you said to say, multiple times. Trump punches back and stirs up the controversies on purpose, because he's right.

Only a blind follower sees it this way.

What I see is that Trump talks out of his ass, saying things like Puerto Rico was the best relief effort ever, when it is clear that he knows little to nothing about the subject matter. He only punches back when the media calls him out on his bullsh!t. And when he punches back, it's typically with blatant lies, like the democrats inflated the death toll, which we know is false.

It is factually accurate that democrats inflated the death toll. Period.

[deadheadskier]

Blind devotion it is.