Some soldiers are unhappy with the Army

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » Dec 10th, '04, 10:48

shortski wrote: My personal feeling regarding that is the military needs a new small armored vehicle for the type of warfare they are now engaged in, close in urban combat. They need a smaller version of the Bradly fighting Vehicle, Smaller , more manuverable but with adequate armor to stop small arms and RPG fire, something the Humvee was never designed to do. So its a factor of not having the foresight maybe what 10-12 years ago to foresee the kind of conflicts we would be involved in and not taking action to make sure we had the proper equipment to deal with it. Can you say Bosnia. I haven't checked to see if a new vehicle was proposed .

They actually have been using some wheeld armored vehicles in the 25th Infantry division, very similar to the LAV that the marines use and they have wheeld tanks also. the unit is experimental and fielding the equipment. The concept is that they will be quicker and lighter for urban areas. It takes light years for the army to field and implement new equipment.

Problem is the average joe mechanic or medic, network adminstrator will never get an armored vehicle if thier mission is not intened to go into a hostile area to engage enemy. They may have the luxury of an armored HMMWV.

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Dec 10th, '04, 10:54

DMC wrote:
shortski wrote:It does matter, its the whole point, its about the media making up the stories it covers as news. Think about that, if the news media with all their power to influence the public start making stories up and report them as news thats a major problem
Why don't you wait until you get the soldiers side of the story??

Answer these questions (Yes or No).. :)

If the soldier ACTUALLY felt that way - and the reporter assisted him in formulating his question - is it still wrong?

Also if it was made up - does this soldier now go into you lack of integrity category???

#1 YES

#2 If he did it with full knowlege and bought into the reporter fabricating the story YES

Next time make the questions harder, the are no shades of gray the truth is the truth and being up front and honest is fully part of being truthful.

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Dec 10th, '04, 10:57

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Dec 10th, '04, 10:58

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Dec 10th, '04, 10:59

Pedro wrote: They actually have been using some wheeld armored vehicles in the 25th Infantry division, very similar to the LAV that the marines use and they have wheeld tanks also. the unit is experimental and fielding the equipment. The concept is that they will be quicker and lighter for urban areas. It takes light years for the army to field and implement new equipment.

Problem is the average joe mechanic or medic, network adminstrator will never get an armored vehicle if thier mission is not intened to go into a hostile area to engage enemy. They may have the luxury of an armored HMMWV.

Thats the problem with the Humvee, as originally proposed it was never designed to be a fighting vehicle,it's mission has evolved and hence the modifications. Military vehicles are designed for the role they play in the mission, with the current theater that mission has evolved to close in urban combat a mission our general troops are not trained or equipped to handle. The special force and special opes teams are but the theater of battle is to large for them to win.

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Dec 10th, '04, 11:04

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Dec 10th, '04, 11:05

DMC wrote:
shortski wrote:I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking the liberal agenda.

DMC, I sometime wonder how far you'll back things that are so obviously wrong as long as they are detrimental to the efforts of the current administration, an administration that was elected by the MAJORITY of the people in the United States, for the first time since 1988 when George Sr. beat Dukakis, another liberal Mass Democrate, coincedence ...I think not.

If I was attacking you I would have said DMC you are so obviously wrong, if you read my statement it reads I sometimes wonder, it's my opinion arn't I entitled to voice my opinion?

CAPBOY · Post by **CAPBOY** » Dec 10th, '04, 11:10

DMC wrote:
Answer these questions (Yes or No).. :)

Wow! You are starting to debate like me now! You have been a good student, grasshopper!

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Dec 10th, '04, 11:11

DMC wrote:
shortski wrote:Thats the problem with the Humvee, as originally proposed it was never designed to be a fighting vehicle,it's mission has evolved and hence the modifications. Military vehicles are designed for the role they play in the mission, with the current theater that mission has evolved to close in urban combat a mission our general troops are not trained or equipped to handle. The special force and special opes teams are but the theater of battle is to large for them to win.
So why didn't we know that it was going to be urban combat???
I knew that was what it was going to be and I've never been in war...

I doubt GWB would send troops in unprepared... He must've gotten more bad advice...

Nope just a fight trying to get the appropriations through congress where the last Democratic Presidential Candidate vote for before he voted against the very armor you are so fixed. Every time you bring it up I'll remind you why there is no armor on the Humvee at this time, the delay was caused by the fight in congress which backfired on the Dems.

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » Dec 10th, '04, 11:11

You guys are a bunch of flamers.

Flame on

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Dec 10th, '04, 11:20

DMC wrote:
shortski wrote:
DMC wrote:
shortski wrote:It does matter, its the whole point, its about the media making up the stories it covers as news. Think about that, if the news media with all their power to influence the public start making stories up and report them as news thats a major problem
Why don't you wait until you get the soldiers side of the story??

Answer these questions (Yes or No).. :)

If the soldier ACTUALLY felt that way - and the reporter assisted him in formulating his question - is it still wrong?

Also if it was made up - does this soldier now go into you lack of integrity category???
#1 YES

#2 If he did it with full knowlege and bought into the reporter fabricating the story YES

Next time make the questions harder, the are no shades of gray the truth is the truth and being up front and honest is fully part of being truthful.
Sounds like your accusing a guy fighting for your freedom of not having integrity...
Why would it be wrong to have someone help you formulate a question if you felt that way to begin with? Not everyone speaks as well as GWB ;)

No, your trying to make my statement something that it's not, the statement speaks for itself it need no interpretation. The rules of the town meeting format were that only question from the troops would be recognized and answered, the reporter change those rules by feeding the question to the solider and then going to the Sargent at the mike to make sure he would be called on, that's called a set up. It just so simple, putting things out to be that which they are not is dishonest and wrong.

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » Dec 10th, '04, 11:21

shortski wrote:
DMC wrote:
shortski wrote:
DMC wrote:
shortski wrote:It does matter, its the whole point, its about the media making up the stories it covers as news. Think about that, if the news media with all their power to influence the public start making stories up and report them as news thats a major problem
Why don't you wait until you get the soldiers side of the story??

Answer these questions (Yes or No).. :)

If the soldier ACTUALLY felt that way - and the reporter assisted him in formulating his question - is it still wrong?

Also if it was made up - does this soldier now go into you lack of integrity category???
#1 YES

#2 If he did it with full knowlege and bought into the reporter fabricating the story YES

Next time make the questions harder, the are no shades of gray the truth is the truth and being up front and honest is fully part of being truthful.
Sounds like your accusing a guy fighting for your freedom of not having integrity...
Why would it be wrong to have someone help you formulate a question if you felt that way to begin with? Not everyone speaks as well as GWB ;)
No, your trying to make my statement something that it's not, the statement speaks for itself it need no interpretation. The rules of the town meeting format were that only question from the troops would be recognized and answered, the reporter change those rules by feeding the question to the solider and then going to the Sargent at the mike to make sure he would be called on, that's called a set up. It just so simple, putting things out to be that which they are not is dishonest and wrong.

Yeah the whole thing was just plain shady.

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Dec 10th, '04, 11:39