5,500 Servicemen have deserted...

DMC Freeride · Post by **DMC Freeride** » Apr 13th, '06, 08:41

"I was told in basic training that, if I'm given an illegal or immoral order, it is my duty to disobey it, and I feel that invading and occupying Iraq is an illegal and immoral thing to do."
Spc. Jeremy Hinzman

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/ ... 9336.shtml

BigKahuna13 · Post by **BigKahuna13** » Apr 13th, '06, 09:01

It's one thing to refuse to do something that's clearly illegal and immoral like refusing to shoot an unarmed person. It's something else to desert because you disagree with policy. He gave up his right to act on his
disagreement with his country's policies when he signed up.

2knees · Post by **2knees** » Apr 13th, '06, 09:06

It’s mixed feelings for me because while I whole-heartedly oppose the war, I also realize the need to have a military that follows orders without question. When you voluntarily sign up for military service, I would hope you are aware of all the possibilities that contract entails and if any of those possibilities seems unacceptable, dont join. It’s probably not in the militarys best interest for the rank and file to decide what is right and wrong. Draft dodging is a bit different, in my opinion, in that the men were not joining the military of the own volition. Not to say I don’t understand, to some degree, their decisions based upon the interviews given in the article.

St. Jerry · Post by **St. Jerry** » Apr 13th, '06, 09:16

BigKahuna13 wrote:It's one thing to refuse to do something that's clearly illegal and immoral like refusing to shoot an unarmed person. It's something else to desert because you disagree with policy. He gave up his right to act on his
disagreement with his country's policies when he signed up.

Agreed. Once you have made the commitment to sign up, you need stick to that commitment. Sorry if you don't agree with the war, but you signed up and now your SOL if you don't like it.

XtremeJibber2001 · Post by **XtremeJibber2001** » Apr 13th, '06, 10:12

St. Jerry wrote:
BigKahuna13 wrote:It's one thing to refuse to do something that's clearly illegal and immoral like refusing to shoot an unarmed person. It's something else to desert because you disagree with policy. He gave up his right to act on his
disagreement with his country's policies when he signed up.
Agreed. Once you have made the commitment to sign up, you need stick to that commitment. Sorry if you don't agree with the war, but you signed up and now your SOL if you don't like it.

Agreed.

Dirty Old Ski Bastard · Post by **Dirty Old Ski Bastard** » Apr 13th, '06, 11:02

Agreed. Once you sign up, you cant back out that easily.

Look before you leap as they say.

Dr. NO · Post by **Dr. NO** » Apr 13th, '06, 11:29

Kahuna very wise in this case. The war is Policy and he is stuck. Hope he likes Kansas and the Marines.

Post by **SkiDork** » Apr 13th, '06, 11:35

Dr. NO wrote:Kahuna very wise in this case. The war is Policy and he is stuck. Hope he likes Kansas and the Marines.

Kahuna is the wisest of the wise.....

Never doubt Kahuna....

ski_adk · Post by **ski_adk** » Apr 13th, '06, 11:56

I think this guy is right for standing by his moral convictions and I think you guys are all right for what you say about standing by your commitment to your brothers and sisters in arms.

Looking back in hind sight, would you label Vietnam desserters and draft dodgers as villainous traitors or conscientous objectors?

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Apr 13th, '06, 12:15

Not sure the point of your post DMC but if it was to insinuate that the average grunt disagrees with the actions of the US government it's not backed up by the facts, if that wasn't the point could you please enlighten me as to what the point was.

Thanks

SS/HD Out

Putting things in perspective:

There are 1,427,000 active duty military personnel add in another 860,000
in the 7 reserve components that's a total of 2,287,000 total military personnel. Having a desertion rate of .00240489724529951902% should come as no surprise.

More info:

Desertion Rates 1977-2004

Dersertion Rates Drop

Cityskier · Post by **Cityskier** » Apr 13th, '06, 12:38

shortski wrote:Not sure the point of your post DMC but if it was to insinuate that the average grunt disagrees with the actions of the US government it's not backed up by the facts, if that wasn't the point could you please enlighten me as to what the point was.

Thanks

SS/HD Out

Putting things in perspective:

There are 1,427,000 active duty military personnel add in another 860,000
in the 7 reserve components that's a total of 2,287,000 total military personnel. Having a desertion rate of .00240489724529951902% should come as no surprise.

More info:

Desertion Rates 1977-2004

Dersertion Rates Drop

And what's your point? Are you here to restate the obvious? That it's a small percentage? Thanks for that. Again, we were lost without you.

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Apr 13th, '06, 12:43

Cityskier wrote:
shortski wrote:Not sure the point of your post DMC but if it was to insinuate that the average grunt disagrees with the actions of the US government it's not backed up by the facts, if that wasn't the point could you please enlighten me as to what the point was.

Thanks

SS/HD Out

Putting things in perspective:

There are 1,427,000 active duty military personnel add in another 860,000
in the 7 reserve components that's a total of 2,287,000 total military personnel. Having a desertion rate of .00240489724529951902% should come as no surprise.

More info:

Desertion Rates 1977-2004

Dersertion Rates Drop
And what's your point? Are you here to restate the obvious? That it's a small percentage? Thanks for that. Again, we were lost without you.

My point was to get some clarification from DMC, but hey thanks for the reply, that's one in a row without profanity, keep up the good work.

DMC Freeride · Post by **DMC Freeride** » Apr 13th, '06, 12:49

shortski wrote:Not sure the point of your post DMC but if it was to insinuate that the average grunt disagrees with the actions of the US government it's not backed up by the facts, if that wasn't the point could you please enlighten me as to what the point was.

I was just starting a converstation... I have no point..

it just seemed interesting..

Cityskier · Post by **Cityskier** » Apr 13th, '06, 12:51

DMC Freeride wrote:
shortski wrote:Not sure the point of your post DMC but if it was to insinuate that the average grunt disagrees with the actions of the US government it's not backed up by the facts, if that wasn't the point could you please enlighten me as to what the point was.
I was just starting a converstation... I have no point..

it just seemed interesting..

This is the USA, DMC! We cannot discuss these things. That might lead to thinking and logic and then we're f*** ed! (Just for you SS) Simple ShortSki might get confused if we peel back the layers of the onion. You see, he's all bark and no bite.

DMC Freeride · Post by **DMC Freeride** » Apr 13th, '06, 13:15

Freedom is when the people can speak, democracy is when the government listens.
Alastair Farrugia

They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
Benjamin Franklin