Spanish 'Banner' draws protest

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XtremeJibber2001
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Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

RJSVermont wrote:
shortski wrote:I take back view on those illegal aliens, after the work walk out, and not going to school, I know I now value their contributions, I couldn't get anything done, or any food or any services supplied,..... when was the walk out by the way.
Now those poor people down in NJ..........must've been difficult not getting their lawns cut yesterday while Juan and Jose were out protesting.
Nope. My buddy owns a landscaping business and my Uncle owns a 300+acre farm....no affect what so ever.

What I love about this country the most...is if 100,000 pot smokers came out smoking pot for legalization...they'd all be arrested. While 100,000 illegals come out and they're let off the hook. What was our law established agian for?
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Post by RJSVermont »

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote:
shortski wrote:I take back view on those illegal aliens, after the work walk out, and not going to school, I know I now value their contributions, I couldn't get anything done, or any food or any services supplied,..... when was the walk out by the way.
Now those poor people down in NJ..........must've been difficult not getting their lawns cut yesterday while Juan and Jose were out protesting.
Nope. My buddy owns a landscaping business and my Uncle owns a 300+acre farm....no affect what so ever.

What I love about this country the most...is if 100,000 pot smokers came out smoking pot for legalization...they'd all be arrested. While 100,000 illegals come out and they're let off the hook. What was our law established agian for?
Okay, so one company of the thousands of lawn care companies in NJ......
Some things just can't be bought......
XtremeJibber2001
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Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

RJSVermont wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote:
shortski wrote:I take back view on those illegal aliens, after the work walk out, and not going to school, I know I now value their contributions, I couldn't get anything done, or any food or any services supplied,..... when was the walk out by the way.
Now those poor people down in NJ..........must've been difficult not getting their lawns cut yesterday while Juan and Jose were out protesting.
Nope. My buddy owns a landscaping business and my Uncle owns a 300+acre farm....no affect what so ever.

What I love about this country the most...is if 100,000 pot smokers came out smoking pot for legalization...they'd all be arrested. While 100,000 illegals come out and they're let off the hook. What was our law established agian for?
Okay, so one company of the thousands of lawn care companies in NJ......
Not to mention one of the largest farms in sout jersey...

Point being.... zero, zip, nodda, none of the local media outlets covered this impact we had from all the illegals leaving their jobs.
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Post by RJSVermont »

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote:
shortski wrote:I take back view on those illegal aliens, after the work walk out, and not going to school, I know I now value their contributions, I couldn't get anything done, or any food or any services supplied,..... when was the walk out by the way.
Now those poor people down in NJ..........must've been difficult not getting their lawns cut yesterday while Juan and Jose were out protesting.
Nope. My buddy owns a landscaping business and my Uncle owns a 300+acre farm....no affect what so ever.

What I love about this country the most...is if 100,000 pot smokers came out smoking pot for legalization...they'd all be arrested. While 100,000 illegals come out and they're let off the hook. What was our law established agian for?
Okay, so one company of the thousands of lawn care companies in NJ......
Not to mention one of the largest farms in sout jersey...

Point being.... zero, zip, nodda, none of the local media outlets covered this impact we had from all the illegals leaving their jobs.
Are you that oblivious to the outside world??

There is more to life than a 300 acre farm in NJ.

And MY POINT, was that Shortski lives a life very sheltered from Illegal Immigrant presence. You go to any fast food joint in Rutland and you won't find your standard fair of Mexicans working there. All the employees are white. I've not once seen a landscaping company here employing mexicans. Hell, my office has a pretty decent amount of land. Landscapers are here right now and you guessed it, not one mexican. Him stating that his life wasn't affected by the protests is somewhat of a joke.


http://www.forbes.com/technology/ebusin ... 12811.html
Some things just can't be bought......
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Post by BigKahuna13 »

shortski wrote:The main opposition to the illegals are the immigrants that came in legally following the rules, they're really pissed that now they are going to have to compete with these no goods for the same jobs and will probably take a hit because the illegals will take their job for a lower wage. The illegal also bring down the whole wage structure as a whole, keeping wages artificially low across the board.
Several studies have shown this to be incorrect. Illegals only compete at the very bottom rungs of the job market, typically against people who don't have HS educations. Downward wage pressures do exist there, but illegals don't affect wages anywhere else. Illegals typically don't compete for the traditionally well paying blue collar jobs. I seriously doubt you'll find many illegals in the UAW.

As to the drain on local services, I'm not so sure. At least where I live local services are funded via property taxes. Illegals are paying rent to someone, who in turn is paying property taxes. Yes you can cram a bunch of illegals into an apartment and wind up with a household using more in services than it pays in property taxes but you know what, illegals aren't the only ones who do that, and in any case those people are paying social security taxes (that they'll never benefit from), income taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes etc, etc, etc.
What is not possible is not to choose. ~Jean-Paul Sartre


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BigKahuna13
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Post by BigKahuna13 »

JerseyGuy wrote:
Dirty Old Ski Bastard wrote:
JerseyGuy wrote:What's the big deal? My gardener needs SOMETHING to hum to himself while he mows my lawn.

Actually, it IS a big deal, and indicative of the larger problem here: too many damn illegals, breaking our laws and flaunting their presence thruogh their fancy-schmancy minimum wage jobs and conspicous use of public transit systems! Our wop, mick, polack and kraut forefathers and foremothers came here legally, so why they hell shouldn't these wetbacks go through the same process? Let's get rid of them all, I say, and then we... what?

Oh -- I'll just been informed by my fat-cat business-owning friends that we need the cheap labor and the ability to fire them and replace them with other hard-working Joses at the drop off a hat. OK, sounds good -- I like this "guest worker" thing -- a good compromise, very fair, and keeps my buddies in the black. So let's just leave them as they are: a compliant, easily manipulated workforce, and... what's that?

Oh... my right-wingnut buddies have pointed out that this is essentially an amnesty program: sure, they provide cheap and easily oppressed labor, but they came here illegally, and we have enough brown people around as it is. Hit the road, Ernesto! Then we can take all those white people that need jobs and... oh, now what?

My left-wing screwjob friends have just pointed out to me that we don't have the infrastructure to ship all these folks out and keep them out, and that in many cases, they've been here for years, raising families and working hard and blah-blah-freakin'-blah. Besides, the Republicans have tied themselves up in knots over this one, and they're finding this whole situation quite enjoyable. What to do?

I say we leave 'em alone for now. Just as long as they don't change our uniquely American national anthem. THAT, my friends, is sacrosanct, and... oh, for Christ's sake, stop interrupting me! What is it NOW?

OK, my historian friends have just notified me that our anthem itself is an Early American Remix, the melody lifted directly from an old English drinking song. (Imagine -- two hundred years from now, perhaps the Democracy of Iraq's National Anthem will be based on "Tubthumping" by Chumbawumba.)

I give up. I gotta go -- I'm meeting someone for lunch at Chi-Chi's.

Oh, NOW what?
At last! A K-zoner I can relate with. Good Job Jersey guy! :D


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XtremeJibber2001
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Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

RJSVermont wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote: Now those poor people down in NJ..........must've been difficult not getting their lawns cut yesterday while Juan and Jose were out protesting.
Nope. My buddy owns a landscaping business and my Uncle owns a 300+acre farm....no affect what so ever.

What I love about this country the most...is if 100,000 pot smokers came out smoking pot for legalization...they'd all be arrested. While 100,000 illegals come out and they're let off the hook. What was our law established agian for?
Okay, so one company of the thousands of lawn care companies in NJ......
Not to mention one of the largest farms in sout jersey...

Point being.... zero, zip, nodda, none of the local media outlets covered this impact we had from all the illegals leaving their jobs.
Are you that oblivious to the outside world??

There is more to life than a 300 acre farm in NJ.

And MY POINT, was that Shortski lives a life very sheltered from Illegal Immigrant presence. You go to any fast food joint in Rutland and you won't find your standard fair of Mexicans working there. All the employees are white. I've not once seen a landscaping company here employing mexicans. Hell, my office has a pretty decent amount of land. Landscapers are here right now and you guessed it, not one mexican. Him stating that his life wasn't affected by the protests is somewhat of a joke.


http://www.forbes.com/technology/ebusin ... 12811.html
The article notes that 'some' business were impacted, but not uniformly. Seems most of the businesses were in the SW region (no surprise) and that merely 1000 people protested in Philly. This article confirms that in the south jersey area, there was no impact....which is what I was addressing.

Nonetheless, businesses all over the US were not crippled, the market didn't crash....actually, what if any effect did this have on the US as a nation? Very VERY minor...and minor is an "overstatement". These illegals shouldn't be given a free pass because Dems and Repubs are pissing there pants scared that one or two companys are operating at half capacity. The plants that are at half capacity becuase of illegals....start the process of citizenship and those illegals can stay.

My conclusion, illegals need us more than we need them.
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Post by Bubba »

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote: Nope. My buddy owns a landscaping business and my Uncle owns a 300+acre farm....no affect what so ever.

What I love about this country the most...is if 100,000 pot smokers came out smoking pot for legalization...they'd all be arrested. While 100,000 illegals come out and they're let off the hook. What was our law established agian for?
Okay, so one company of the thousands of lawn care companies in NJ......
Not to mention one of the largest farms in sout jersey...

Point being.... zero, zip, nodda, none of the local media outlets covered this impact we had from all the illegals leaving their jobs.
Are you that oblivious to the outside world??

There is more to life than a 300 acre farm in NJ.

And MY POINT, was that Shortski lives a life very sheltered from Illegal Immigrant presence. You go to any fast food joint in Rutland and you won't find your standard fair of Mexicans working there. All the employees are white. I've not once seen a landscaping company here employing mexicans. Hell, my office has a pretty decent amount of land. Landscapers are here right now and you guessed it, not one mexican. Him stating that his life wasn't affected by the protests is somewhat of a joke.


http://www.forbes.com/technology/ebusin ... 12811.html
The article notes that 'some' business were impacted, but not uniformly. Seems most of the businesses were in the SW region (no surprise) and that merely 1000 people protested in Philly. This article confirms that in the south jersey area, there was no impact....which is what I was addressing.

Nonetheless, businesses all over the US were not crippled, the market didn't crash....actually, what if any effect did this have on the US as a nation? Very VERY minor...and minor is an "overstatement". These illegals shouldn't be given a free pass because Dems and Repubs are pissing there pants scared that one or two companys are operating at half capacity. The plants that are at half capacity becuase of illegals....start the process of citizenship and those illegals can stay.

My conclusion, illegals need us more than we need them.
So your point is? Should we declare 11-12 million people who are here now to be felons? That's what the House bill would do. Should we try to deport those same 11-12 million? Nobody in their right mind would attempt this. Or do we tighten the borders but also give these 11-12 million people some avenue to progress through the process toward citizenship? That's the Senate bill that Kennedy/McCain came up with but which didn't make it through several weeks ago.
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XtremeJibber2001
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Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

Bubba wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
RJSVermont wrote: Okay, so one company of the thousands of lawn care companies in NJ......
Not to mention one of the largest farms in sout jersey...

Point being.... zero, zip, nodda, none of the local media outlets covered this impact we had from all the illegals leaving their jobs.
Are you that oblivious to the outside world??

There is more to life than a 300 acre farm in NJ.

And MY POINT, was that Shortski lives a life very sheltered from Illegal Immigrant presence. You go to any fast food joint in Rutland and you won't find your standard fair of Mexicans working there. All the employees are white. I've not once seen a landscaping company here employing mexicans. Hell, my office has a pretty decent amount of land. Landscapers are here right now and you guessed it, not one mexican. Him stating that his life wasn't affected by the protests is somewhat of a joke.


http://www.forbes.com/technology/ebusin ... 12811.html
The article notes that 'some' business were impacted, but not uniformly. Seems most of the businesses were in the SW region (no surprise) and that merely 1000 people protested in Philly. This article confirms that in the south jersey area, there was no impact....which is what I was addressing.

Nonetheless, businesses all over the US were not crippled, the market didn't crash....actually, what if any effect did this have on the US as a nation? Very VERY minor...and minor is an "overstatement". These illegals shouldn't be given a free pass because Dems and Repubs are pissing there pants scared that one or two companys are operating at half capacity. The plants that are at half capacity becuase of illegals....start the process of citizenship and those illegals can stay.

My conclusion, illegals need us more than we need them.
So your point is? Should we declare 11-12 million people who are here now to be felons? That's what the House bill would do. Should we try to deport those same 11-12 million? Nobody in their right mind would attempt this. Or do we tighten the borders but also give these 11-12 million people some avenue to progress through the process toward citizenship? That's the Senate bill that Kennedy/McCain came up with but which didn't make it through several weeks ago.
We could declare them felons, but the taxes needed to process and jail them would be extensive. In otherwords, not a viable option.

Tighten our borders and give 11/12 million 'an avenue' to become legal? Yes. How we do this is the big debate IMHO.

Build a fence, deploy troops, add electronic monitoring....something or all of those would work.

The 'avenue' to become legal should be intensive. It should ensure that the people that have already begun the legalization process...are not pushed back in line. All 11/12 million are in the back of the line. Illegals that do not begin the process, should be treated as felons and dealt with quickly. Fees should be paid, perhaps to strengthen the border that they so neglegently crossed. Beyond that, I'm not sure.
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Post by shortski »

RJSVermont wrote:And MY POINT, was that Shortski lives a life very sheltered from Illegal Immigrant presence.

http://www.forbes.com/technology/ebusin ... 12811.html
Oh do I, just to let you know I'm a first generation American, my farther was a naturalized American Citizen, he came in legally fought in WW2, and the Korean war before earning his citizenship, so until you know of what you speak it's better if you just keep quite and let people think you're not quite intelligent instead of stating your opinion on something you know nothing about and proving your ignorance.

Thanks for link, I think it's a great starting point, I think the INS should raid everyone of those business and round up all the illegals and ship them back to their original countries, fine the companies that hire the illegals and bill the countries of origin for all the costs involved in providing for them during their illegal stay as well as all cost to get them out. Enforce the laws on the books and fine and jail companies and their executives that hire illegals the problem is manageable if we only enforce the laws we have on the books now, nothing new is needed.

Funny thing is I view the immigration issue as a Democratic and liberal issue — everyone knows it's the rich Republican business owners that benefit from the cheap labor... illegal immigration is hurting the average American worker, is stealing tax money, killing our schools, placing undue burden on our medical facilities, costing billions in extra government service to non citizens, why arn't they protecting the interests of the hard working middle class, families with children and the single parent households across this great land, where are the saviors of all that is good, when are they going to show up and save their constituency, what about the children. Why arn't they pointing out it's the rich business owner that profit from the labors of the poor disadvantage undocumented workers, why arn't they calling for the <s> stealing</s>, <s>redistributing</s>, <s>confiscating</s> taxing the windfall gains and profits these people who benefit so we can provide for these poor unfortunate undocumented workers.

The only thing you're right about it doesn't effect me to the point I will have to change my lifestyle, but it still cause me concern that it might effect the lifestyle of my friends and family, so why are you touting the causes of these parasites, I don't get it, but oh well thats because I live in my own little world.

Tyson Foods Inc., the world's largest meat producer, shuttered about a dozen of its more than 100 plants. Eight of 14 Perdue Farms chicken plants also closed for the day.

The rallies shut down 29 branches of Chipotle Mexican Grill, a Denver-based fast-casual dining chain. Goya Foods, which bills itself as the nation's largest Hispanic-owned food chain, suspended delivery everywhere except Florida in what the company called a gesture of solidarity.

In the Los Angeles area, many restaurants and markets were dark and truck traffic at the twin ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach - the nation's busiest - was off 90 percent, said spokeswoman Theresa Adams Lopez.

The construction industry was hard hit in Florida. More than half the workers at construction sites in Miami-Dade County did not show up, according to Bill Spann, executive vice president of the Associated General Contractors of Greater Florida.

"If I lose my job, it's worth it," said Jose Cruz, an immigrant from El Salvador who rather than working his construction job protested with several thousand others in the rural city of Homestead outside Miami. "It's worth losing several jobs to get my papers."
Cogito, ergo sum

Sometimes it is that simple.

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shortski
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Post by shortski »

Bubba wrote: Or do we tighten the borders but also give these 11-12 million people some avenue to progress through the process toward citizenship? That's the Senate bill that Kennedy/McCain came up with but which didn't make it through several weeks ago.
Don't have the answer but I don't believe Amnesty is part of it, there has to be a penalty for breaking the law not a reward, even my little pea brain can figure out rewarding bad behavior only begets more bad behavior. Like I said in the previous post start with the employers, fine, jail do whatever necessary to stop them from hiring illegals, if what they say is true all they want is a job a a way to better themselves then the only way to that goal is to go through the process and if they don't could it mean they really want a hand out not a hand up. I also say we place some of the responsibilities on the countries the illegals come from, they have a duty to stop the illegal immigration out out their country. Cant' probably do it all at once but we can start, give a deadline for all illegals to report and if they don't they're subject to immediate deportation, after 60 days start state by state one state at a time identifying and deporting anyone who did not register, it may take a while but if the message is clear, that no one get a free pass, and if what they claim is true, they're only looking for a better life, then it is possible. IMHO

http://www.numbersusa.com/interests/amnesty_print.html

According to INS estimates released in October, 2000, the amnesties granted in 1986 as a result of the Immigration Reform and Control Act significantly contributed to an increase in illegal immigration as the relatives of newly legalized illegal immigrants came illegally to the United States to join their family members. In the decade following the 1986 amnesty, illegal immigration increased dramatically
http://www.numbersusa.com/interests/amnesty.html

"The fact that these new INS figures show that the last amnesty actually attracted more illegal immigration should give serious pause to those now advocating another amnesty," said Steven A. Camarota, Director of Research at the Center for Immigration Studies. "With the government estimating that nearly half a million illegal aliens settle permanently in the United States each year, the new estimates indicate that we have not yet regained control over our nation's borders."
http://www.cis.org/articles/2000/ins1986amnesty.html
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Sometimes it is that simple.

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RJSVermont
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Post by RJSVermont »

shortski wrote:
RJSVermont wrote:And MY POINT, was that Shortski lives a life very sheltered from Illegal Immigrant presence.

http://www.forbes.com/technology/ebusin ... 12811.html
Oh do I, just to let you know I'm a first generation American, my farther was a naturalized American Citizen, he came in legally fought in WW2, and the Korean war before earning his citizenship, so until you know of what you speak it's better if you just keep quite and let people think you're not quite intelligent instead of stating your opinion on something you know nothing about and proving your ignorance.
Whoa there, hold your double cheeseburgers there Shotski......I was talking about your current living situation. If you can honestly tell me there is a large illegal immigrant population living in your lovely little central Vermont town then I will take your post seriously. But please.......you and I both know that you live in a predominantly white area. I mean sh*t, the whole farkin state of Vermont has a tiny non-white population and most of the minorities are refugees from Sudan living in the Burlington area.

Way to resort to personal insults too. I used to at least have an ounce of respect for you and your opinion even if they did clash with my own. Talk about reading comprehension.......


And with all those spelling errors, I'm wondering if Doc No has hijacked your user name......


Vermont Ethnic Profile

White: 96.8%
Black: 0.5%
Native American: 0.4%
Asian/Pacific Isle: 0.9%
Hispanic: 0.9%
Other: 0.2%


Compare that to only about 70.0% white population in NJ.
Last edited by RJSVermont on May 2nd, '06, 12:30, edited 5 times in total.
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Dirty Old Ski Bastard
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Post by Dirty Old Ski Bastard »

JerseyGuy wrote:
Dirty Old Ski Bastard wrote:
JerseyGuy wrote:What's the big deal? My gardener needs SOMETHING to hum to himself while he mows my lawn.

Actually, it IS a big deal, and indicative of the larger problem here: too many damn illegals, breaking our laws and flaunting their presence thruogh their fancy-schmancy minimum wage jobs and conspicous use of public transit systems! Our wop, mick, polack and kraut forefathers and foremothers came here legally, so why they hell shouldn't these wetbacks go through the same process? Let's get rid of them all, I say, and then we... what?

Oh -- I'll just been informed by my fat-cat business-owning friends that we need the cheap labor and the ability to fire them and replace them with other hard-working Joses at the drop off a hat. OK, sounds good -- I like this "guest worker" thing -- a good compromise, very fair, and keeps my buddies in the black. So let's just leave them as they are: a compliant, easily manipulated workforce, and... what's that?

Oh... my right-wingnut buddies have pointed out that this is essentially an amnesty program: sure, they provide cheap and easily oppressed labor, but they came here illegally, and we have enough brown people around as it is. Hit the road, Ernesto! Then we can take all those white people that need jobs and... oh, now what?

My left-wing screwjob friends have just pointed out to me that we don't have the infrastructure to ship all these folks out and keep them out, and that in many cases, they've been here for years, raising families and working hard and blah-blah-freakin'-blah. Besides, the Republicans have tied themselves up in knots over this one, and they're finding this whole situation quite enjoyable. What to do?

I say we leave 'em alone for now. Just as long as they don't change our uniquely American national anthem. THAT, my friends, is sacrosanct, and... oh, for Christ's sake, stop interrupting me! What is it NOW?

OK, my historian friends have just notified me that our anthem itself is an Early American Remix, the melody lifted directly from an old English drinking song. (Imagine -- two hundred years from now, perhaps the Democracy of Iraq's National Anthem will be based on "Tubthumping" by Chumbawumba.)

I give up. I gotta go -- I'm meeting someone for lunch at Chi-Chi's.

Oh, NOW what?
At last! A K-zoner I can relate with. Good Job Jersey guy! :D
Uh... does someone else want to tell him about me, or shall I?
What Am I missing? U R an ultra bleeding heart liberal? A draft dodger from the late sixties or seventies? a convict? Queer? have sex with Sheep?
Spill it Jersey boy
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Post by Bubba »

Ah......Shortski and Jibber, aka Pea Brain and Grasshopper..........have you read anything about the bill that McCain and Kennedy are trying to get through? Apparently not. The bill is not amnesty. It defines the process required to gain legal status, including payment of a $2,000 fine (I believe) and does not give those applying under these provisions any preference over legal immigrants. They are, as you say, at the back of the line. If you're going to argue against something, at least educamate yourselves first.
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XtremeJibber2001
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Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

Bubba wrote:Ah......Shortski and Jibber, aka Pea Brain and Grasshopper..........have you read anything about the bill that McCain and Kennedy are trying to get through? Apparently not. The bill is not amnesty. It defines the process required to gain legal status, including payment of a $2,000 fine (I believe) and does not give those applying under these provisions any preference over legal immigrants. They are, as you say, at the back of the line. If you're going to argue against something, at least educamate yourselves first.
You asked what my point is...so I explained myself. Personally, for not knowing much about McCain's plan, I'm in agreeance with his plan. Ironic that my thoughts were an actual plan to a degree :lol: This plan won't pass though IMHO.

The whole situation angers me....those people protesting, don't even have a right to protest, they're not even americans.
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