Israeli forces enter Lebanon...

[shortski]

Some good news?

Israel: Long-Range Missile Destroyed
Jul 17 1:01 PM US/Eastern
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JERUSALEM

An Israeli airstrike in Lebanon on Monday destroyed at least one long- range Iranian missile capable of hitting Tel Aviv, military officials said.

Israeli aircraft targeted a truck carrying the weapons before they could be launched, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of military regulations. The force of the blast sent at least one missile flying into the air, but it fell nearby.

During nearly a week of fighting, Hezbollah militants have fired missiles up to 25 miles into Israel. But officials have raised concerns the guerrilla group could strike Tel Aviv, about 80 miles south of the border with Lebanon.

Just wondering, if Hezbollahahahahahah has no connection to the Lebanese Government, where are they getting the highly sophisticated (highly sophisticated in the sense of better than throwing stones) missiles, could it be........................Iran, Syria kind of make you go Huh, WTF

[XtremeJibber2001]

Pretty crazy ... http://youtube.com/watch?v=wFlYw9awR5o

[Cityskier]

Exactly. And quite possibly to divert attention at this weekend's G8 from discussing Iran's nukes to Israel/Hezbollah.

Speculative rubbish.

Hezbollah only acts via a directive from Syria or Iran.

Nonsense.

I've seen some interestng reports that perhaps Sadam's WMDs were moved into the Bekaa Valley of Lebanon. Could you imagine if they stumbled on these? Oh right. There were no WMDs...

I've seen some even more interesting reports that perhaps the WMD's have been moved from Lebanon in anticipation of an AlpineZone Challenge to an undisclosed location in ...suburban Maryland.

So as Israel starts to wipe out Hezbollah, the question is wha't Iran's next move? Is securing Bekaa close enough to Syria to get Iran to bring a "fierce response"? One thing is clear: the Israelis are pissed.

Incisive.

Alpinezone is a little out of practice with Political Discussions. He doesn't allow such talk on his forums.

Political Discussions No Longer Allowed
Hello all - I've thought long and hard about this, but I've made the decision to no longer allow political discussions on these forums, effective immediately. Usually these types of threads turn into either long circular discussions that go nowhere until the next political thread is started, or they turn into personal flame wars. I don't think either is of any benefit to AlpineZone.com and this great community. Let's now focus on what we do best - discussing Northeast skiing/riding and hiking/backpacking.

A few different solutions have been suggested in the past; one being a dedicated private political forum. Initially, I strongly supported this idea, but after much thought, I now don't think it will relieve the personal attack problem as such animosity will likely spill over to the other forums. Other proposed solutions were to make this Miscellaneous forum private or remove it entirely, but I'm not in favor of either of these solutions. I feel the camaraderie we have here is very special and I also feel that this Miscellaneous forum helps to facilitate it. It's always interesting to read off-topic posts from fellow local snow sports and hiking enthusiasts. Unfortunately, politics is one topic that is such an emotional one that some members simply cannot debate it in the civil, mature and respectful manner found in most other threads here.

Therefore, effective immediately and until further notice, political posts will not be allowed anywhere on the AlpineZone.com Forums. Any political topic that is started will be immediately deleted. Any thread that degenerates into a political debate will result in either the political posts within the thread being deleted, or if all other points regarding the initial topic have been made, the thread may be locked. The moderators will be allowed to use their discretion regarding such situations. Therefore, we reserve the right to edit or delete any topic containing a political post at any time.

Obviously, this action will not be popular with all members, but unfortunately something drastic must be done. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to Email me directly at contact@alpinezone.com or send me a private message. Thank you for taking the time to read this announcement.

That's pretty funny. Doesn't allow political discussions in his forum but participates in one here

funny in a sad sorta way.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Hizbullah rejects ceasefire terms

Member of group’s central committee says ‘Israeli demand to see Lebanese army deploy along border matter for Lebanese to settle themselves’; when asked whether Nasrallah, was still in Lebanon despite Israeli efforts to target him, he says, ‘our leadership and Nasrallah are at the heart of the battle’
AFP

Hizbullah on Monday rejected a ceasefire on terms dictated by Israel.

“We accept no conditions for a ceasefire, whatever the pressure," Abdullah Kasir, a member of Hizbullah's central committee, told AFP.

Sources in Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s office said during the weekend that the possibility of a ceasefire will not be considered before
three conditions are met: The release of the kidnapped IDF soldier’s by Hizbullah, the cessation of rocket attacks on Israel from Lebanon and the disarming of Hizbullah in accordance with UN Resolution 1559.

Kasir said Israel's demand to see the Lebanese army deploy along the border with Israel, replacing Hizbullah who currently control the area, was a matter for the Lebanese to settle themselves.

‘More surprises coming’

He added that the two Israeli soldiers, abducted in a cross-border raid by Hizbullah last Wednesday, were in "a secure place" but did not specify whether they were still in Lebanon.

Asked whether Hizbullah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah, was still in Lebanon despite Israeli efforts to target him, Kasir said that "Hizbullah's leadership and Nasrallah are at the heart of the battle…

"We will never leave, even if Lebanon is reduced to scorched earth."

Hizbullah, he said, was "ready to fight and to inflict painful blows on the enemy. The Islamic Resistance (Hizbullah's armed wing) has only begun to reveal its abilities and its forces."

Israel, he added, should brace for more "surprises", such as last Friday's anti-ship missile which stuck an Israeli Navy vessel off Lebanon and the rocket attacks on Haifa, Israel's third-largest city.

(07.17.06, 22:44)

[Cityskier]

we all read the news. why do you feel compelled to make these posts. don't you have anything to add?

[XtremeJibber2001]

we all read the news. why do you feel compelled to make these posts. don't you have anything to add?

Nah, not really. Thought it was interesting that Hezbollah isn't willing to stop this mess. That is all

[BigKahuna13]

we all read the news. why do you feel compelled to make these posts. don't you have anything to add?

Nah, not really. Thought it was interesting that Hezbollah isn't willing to stop this mess. That is all

You'd expect a different reaction? In meeting those conditions, Hizballah gives up everything and gets nothing in return. Since they apparently don't give a damn about how many of their citizens get killed - in fact for them probably the more dead bodies the better - they'd be much better off taking a beating and waiting on outside intervention and a negotiated settlement.

That calculus probably changes though if Israel actually invades southern Lebanon.

[XtremeJibber2001]

we all read the news. why do you feel compelled to make these posts. don't you have anything to add?

Nah, not really. Thought it was interesting that Hezbollah isn't willing to stop this mess. That is all

You'd expect a different reaction? In meeting those conditions, Hizballah gives up everything and gets nothing in return. Since they apparently don't give a damn about how many of their citizens get killed - in fact for them probably the more dead bodies the better - they'd be much better off taking a beating and waiting on outside intervention and a negotiated settlement.

That calculus probably changes though if Israel actually invades southern Lebanon.

IMHO, Hezbollah will be severly damaged (or destroyed) if they don't meet those conditions. In the past the impact on various militant groups has been minimal only because the international community has stopped Israel. I think this time Israel won't stop until Hezbollah is out of Lebanon ... or at least until the Hezbollah receds far enough back into Lebannon that their missles can't reach Israel. Meanwhile the UK and US hold veto power in the UN and it appears the US is not ready nor willing to ask Israel to stop ... frankly, Israel has no reason to bomb them into the stoneage.

[shortski]

You'd expect a different reaction? In meeting those conditions, Hizballah gives up everything and gets nothing in return. Since they apparently don't give a damn about how many of their citizens get killed - in fact for them probably the more dead bodies the better - they'd be much better off taking a beating and waiting on outside intervention and a negotiated settlement.

That calculus probably changes though if Israel actually invades southern Lebanon.

Geeze, even the French get it, why can't you figure it out? You do know that part of the agreement for Israel pulling out of southern Lebanon was for Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11555254

Force will be needed to implement UN resolution on Lebanon - Chirac
STRELNA (St. Petersburg). July 17 (Interfax) - Force will have to be used to implement UN Security Council Resolution 1559 on Lebanon, French President Jacques Chirac told a Monday press conference in Strelna.

"Force will be required to carry out resolution 1559," Chirac said in response to a question about what measures, besides diplomacy, may be needed to disarm the Hezbollah

[Vinny Vincenzo]

Just a matter of time before the Christian Maronite Militias get into the fight again. They are well equipped and financed by European nations. They will never allow Lebanon to become an Islamic state. They hate the Hezbollah as much as the Israeli's do, and most arab's too for that matter, especially Syrians. They consider the Palestinians cockroaches.
This IS TRULY a Holy War.


The Kataeb

Guardians of the Cedar

St. Maron

[BigKahuna13]

You'd expect a different reaction? In meeting those conditions, Hizballah gives up everything and gets nothing in return. Since they apparently don't give a damn about how many of their citizens get killed - in fact for them probably the more dead bodies the better - they'd be much better off taking a beating and waiting on outside intervention and a negotiated settlement.

That calculus probably changes though if Israel actually invades southern Lebanon.

Geeze, even the French get it, why can't you figure it out? You do know that part of the agreement for Israel pulling out of southern Lebanon was for Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11555254

Force will be needed to implement UN resolution on Lebanon - Chirac
STRELNA (St. Petersburg). July 17 (Interfax) - Force will have to be used to implement UN Security Council Resolution 1559 on Lebanon, French President Jacques Chirac told a Monday press conference in Strelna.

"Force will be required to carry out resolution 1559," Chirac said in response to a question about what measures, besides diplomacy, may be needed to disarm the Hezbollah

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with what I said? All I did was put forward a reason why Hizballah wouldn't go for that ceasefire agreement. What that has to do with 1559 and France is completely beyond me.

[Bubba]

IMHO, Hezbollah will be severly damaged (or destroyed) if they don't meet those conditions. In the past the impact on various militant groups has been minimal only because the international community has stopped Israel. I think this time Israel won't stop until Hezbollah is out of Lebanon ... or at least until the Hezbollah receds far enough back into Lebannon that their missles can't reach Israel. Meanwhile the UK and US hold veto power in the UN and it appears the US is not ready nor willing to ask Israel to stop ... frankly, Israel has no reason to bomb them into the stoneage.

You need another history lesson - please see Israel's miscalculation (Ariel Sharon's to be specific) in their invasion of Lebanon in the early 1980s. They drove Fatah out only to have Hezbollah formed instead. The organization is secondary - it's the radical Islamist idea of Israeli destruction that's the key issue.

[shortski]

Geeze, even the French get it, why can't you figure it out? You do know that part of the agreement for Israel pulling out of southern Lebanon was for Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11555254

Force will be needed to implement UN resolution on Lebanon - Chirac
STRELNA (St. Petersburg). July 17 (Interfax) - Force will have to be used to implement UN Security Council Resolution 1559 on Lebanon, French President Jacques Chirac told a Monday press conference in Strelna.

"Force will be required to carry out resolution 1559," Chirac said in response to a question about what measures, besides diplomacy, may be needed to disarm the Hezbollah

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with what I said? All I did was put forward a reason why Hizballah wouldn't go for that ceasefire agreement. What that has to do with 1559 and France is completely beyond me.

You'd expect a different reaction? In meeting those conditions, Hizballah gives up everything and gets nothing in return.
That calculus probably changes though if Israel actually invades southern Lebanon.

As part of the pullout the disarming of Hezbollah was already negotiated, there's nothing left to negotiate until they meet the terms of the original agreement, but they wont. As you pointed out they don't give two craps if every civilian in Lebanon is killed. Israel is targeting infrastructure and military targets while Hezbollah fire rockets (Geeze I wonder how they got them if they aren't a government entity) into population centers in southern Israel. Where are the other Arab nations in the condemnation of Hezbollah for targeting innocent civilians. The world will be a better place once Hezbollah and every other radical Islamic terrorist state and organization is eliminated.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Geeze, even the French get it, why can't you figure it out? You do know that part of the agreement for Israel pulling out of southern Lebanon was for Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11555254

Force will be needed to implement UN resolution on Lebanon - Chirac
STRELNA (St. Petersburg). July 17 (Interfax) - Force will have to be used to implement UN Security Council Resolution 1559 on Lebanon, French President Jacques Chirac told a Monday press conference in Strelna.

"Force will be required to carry out resolution 1559," Chirac said in response to a question about what measures, besides diplomacy, may be needed to disarm the Hezbollah

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with what I said? All I did was put forward a reason why Hizballah wouldn't go for that ceasefire agreement. What that has to do with 1559 and France is completely beyond me.

You'd expect a different reaction? In meeting those conditions, Hizballah gives up everything and gets nothing in return.
That calculus probably changes though if Israel actually invades southern Lebanon.

As part of the pullout the disarming of Hezbollah was already negotiated, these nothing left to negotiate until they meet the terms of the original agreement, but they wont. As you pointed out they don't give two craps if every civilian in Lebanon is killed. Israel is targeting infrastructure and military targets while Hezbollah fire rockets (Geeze I wonder how they got them if they aren't a government entity) into population centers in southern Israel. Where are the other Arab nations in the condemnation of Hezbollah for targeting innocent civilians. The world will be a better place once Hezbollah and every other radical Islamic terrorist state and organization is eliminated.

the real question is if Israel will mount a pre-emptive strike against Iran .... they have the capability.

[shortski]

the real question is if Israel will mount a pre-emptive strike against Iran .... they have the capability.

I certainly hope they don't but if they do it will escalate in a heartbeat. Israel will most likely be facing a combined force of Iran & Syria and who knows who else. They can't win a conventional war if this happens and it would go nuclear IMHO.