How the imams terrorized an airliner

[XtremeJibber2001]

Did US Airways over-step their boundaries? I don't think so, I know if I was on that flight, I'd be happy to see action taken, albeit if it was later then I had hoped.

How the imams terrorized an airliner

By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 28, 2006

Muslim religious leaders removed from a Minneapolis flight last week exhibited behavior associated with a security probe by terrorists and were not merely engaged in prayers, according to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials.
Witnesses said three of the imams were praying loudly in the concourse and repeatedly shouted "Allah" when passengers were called for boarding US Airways Flight 300 to Phoenix.
"I was suspicious by the way they were praying very loud," the gate agent told the Minneapolis Police Department.
Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks -- two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.
"That would alarm me," said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. "They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane."
A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."
But the imams who were escorted off the flight in handcuffs say they were merely praying before the 6:30 p.m. flight on Nov. 20, and yesterday led a protest by prayer with other religious leaders at the airline's ticket counter at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.
Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, called removing the imams an act of Islamophobia and compared it to racism against blacks.
"It's a shame that as an African-American and a Muslim I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while black and flying while Muslim," Mr. Bray said.
The protesters also called on Congress to pass legislation to outlaw passenger profiling.
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee, Texas Democrat, said the September 11 terrorist attacks "cannot be permitted to be used to justify racial profiling, harassment and discrimination of Muslim and Arab Americans."
"Understandably, the imams felt profiled, humiliated, and discriminated against by their treatment," she said.
According to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials, the imams displayed other suspicious behavior.
Three of the men asked for seat-belt extenders, although two flight attendants told police the men were not oversized. One flight attendant told police she "found this unsettling, as crew knew about the six [passengers] on board and where they were sitting." Rather than attach the extensions, the men placed the straps and buckles on the cabin floor, the flight attendant said.
The imams said they were not discussing politics and only spoke in English, but witnesses told law enforcement that the men spoke in Arabic and English, criticizing the war in Iraq and President Bush, and talking about al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.
The imams who claimed two first-class seats said their tickets were upgraded. The gate agent told police that when the imams asked to be upgraded, they were told no such seats were available. Nevertheless, the two men were seated in first class when removed.
A flight attendant said one of the men made two trips to the rear of the plane to talk to the imam during boarding, and again when the flight was delayed because of their behavior. Aviation officials, including air marshals and pilots, said these actions alone would not warrant a second look, but the combination is suspicious.
"That's like shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater. You just can't do that anymore," said Robert MacLean, a former air marshal.
"They should have been denied boarding and been investigated," Mr. MacLean said. "It looks like they are trying to create public sympathy or maybe setting someone up for a lawsuit."
The pilot with another airline who talked to The Washington Times on condition of anonymity, said he would have made the same call as the US Airways pilot.
"If any group of passengers is commingling in the terminal and didn't sit in their assigned seats or with each other, I would stop everything and investigate until they could provide me with a reason they did not sit in their assigned seats."
One of the passengers, Omar Shahin, told Newsweek the group did everything it could to avoid suspicion by wearing Western clothes, speaking English and booking seats so they were not together. He said they conducted prayers quietly and separately to avoid attention.
The imams had attended a conference sponsored by the North American Imam Federation in Minneapolis and were returning to Phoenix. Mr. Shahin, who is president of the federation, said on his Web site that none of the passengers made pro-Saddam or anti-American statements.
The pilot said the airlines are not "secretly prejudiced against any nationality, religion or culture," and that the only target of profiling is passenger behavior.
"There are certain behaviors that raise the bar, and not sitting in your assigned seat raises the bar substantially," the pilot said. "Especially since we know that this behavior has been evident in suspicious probes in the past."
"Someone at US Airways made a notably good decision," said a second pilot, who also does not work for US Airways.
A spokeswoman for US Airways declined to discuss the incident. Aviation security officials said thousands of Muslims fly every day and conduct prayers in airports in a quiet and private manner without creating incidents.

[BigKahuna13]

With the assumption that the reporting is accurate and no one's overstating what the imams did, then yes I'd say they made a good call.

[XtremeJibber2001]

With the assumption that the reporting is accurate and no one's overstating what the imams did, then yes I'd say they made a good call.

Ditto.

[Cityskier]

With the assumption that the reporting is accurate and no one's overstating what the imams did, then yes I'd say they made a good call.

But it's an XJ source so we know that is not the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... gton_Times

[XtremeJibber2001]

With the assumption that the reporting is accurate and no one's overstating what the imams did, then yes I'd say they made a good call.

But it's an XJ source so we know that is not the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... gton_Times

And you come back citing wiki? So much for 'credible' sources!

Anyways:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15824096
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/21/passen ... index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/21/passen ... index.html
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/ ... TE=DEFAULT

If you need more let me know I checked wiki so I could provide a credible source, but to no avail.

[Cityskier]

With the assumption that the reporting is accurate and no one's overstating what the imams did, then yes I'd say they made a good call.

But it's an XJ source so we know that is not the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... gton_Times

And you come back citing wiki? So much for 'credible' sources!

Anyways:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15824096
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/21/passen ... index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/21/passen ... index.html
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/ ... TE=DEFAULT

If you need more let me ask I checked wiki so I could provide a credible source, but to no avail.

Thanks. But I'm aware of the story. If you can't see the difference between the reporting in Rev. Sun Myung Moon's paper snd the other sources you have cited I can't help you.

[XtremeJibber2001]

With the assumption that the reporting is accurate and no one's overstating what the imams did, then yes I'd say they made a good call.

But it's an XJ source so we know that is not the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... gton_Times

And you come back citing wiki? So much for 'credible' sources!

Anyways:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15824096
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/21/passen ... index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/21/passen ... index.html
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/ ... TE=DEFAULT

If you need more let me ask I checked wiki so I could provide a credible source, but to no avail.

Thanks. But I'm aware of the story. If you can't see the difference between the reporting in Rev. Sun Myung Moon's paper snd the other sources you have cited I can't help you.

I noticed each of them differ. Every story is unique to some regards, IMHO. Although CNN writes the story much more accurately than the WP it seems:

Accounts of what transpired on the plane differ.

Police were called after the captain and airport security workers asked the men to leave the plane and the men refused, Rader told the AP.

Patrick Hogan, spokesman for the Minneapolis-St. Paul Metropolitan Airports Commission, told the AP the airline asked airport police to remove the six men from the flight because some witnesses reported the men were making anti-American statements involving the Iraq war.

Hogan said one of the imams asked to change seats once inside the cabin and another requested an extender to make his seat belt larger even though he did not appear to need it and that in general "there was some peculiar behavior."

Shahin told AP no one asked them to leave until police arrived. The group immediately complied, he said.

Shahin expressed frustration that many Americans know so little about Islam -- despite extensive efforts by him and other Muslim leaders since even before the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

"If up to now they don't know about prayers, this is a real problem," he said.

Shahin told AP the group spent the night at the home of a local imam in Minneapolis.

Shahin told the AP that when he went back to the airport Tuesday morning, he was told by a ticketing agent his payment for the flight had been refunded. He said the agent told him that neither he nor the other imams could purchase tickets from US Airways.

An airline spokesman in Arizona told the AP he was unaware such a decision had been made and could not comment.

The other passengers on the flight, which was carrying 141 passengers and five crew members, were re-screened for boarding, Rader said.

The plane took off about three hours after the men were removed.

It's certainly possible these particular people prayed more loudly then other Muslims and spooked the passengers, but I feel that's an unlikely reason for AA to have the men arrested. I'm sure there is more to the story then meets the eye, but if AA did acted solely on the basis of Muslim prayer, shame on them.

[KBL Ed]

C'mon. If a group of terrorists are going to blow up an airplane, do you honestly think they'll be praying together and chanting "Allah" in the boarding area? Bad call.

[Dr. NO]

C'mon. If a group of terrorists are going to blow up an airplane, do you honestly think they'll be praying together and chanting "Allah" in the boarding area? Bad call.

that is exactly what they did prior to loading at Newark and Boston. They did not "blow the plane up" but they did succeed in their mission.

[XtremeJibber2001]

C'mon. If a group of terrorists are going to blow up an airplane, do you honestly think they'll be praying together and chanting "Allah" in the boarding area? Bad call.

I'm glad you're not an Air Marshall All one would need to do is pray loudly and I get a free pass on the airplane, then BOOM!

So do I honestly think they'll be chanting something? It's possible, they don't rule anything out, so why should we.

[Bubba]

Would anyone have acted differently if 6 Rabbis were saying morning prayers loudly in Hebrew before boarding, then boarded the aircraft and acted in a similar fashion? What about 6 Italian Catholic priests praying, commenting to one another in Italian, then boarding and doing the same things as the imams? How about 6 plain looking American evangelical Christians praying, then boarding and doing the same thing? How about 6 Oklahomans, Texans or Montanans (is that a word?) who looked like Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? How about 6 skiers and riders praying to Ullr?

[XtremeJibber2001]

Would anyone have acted differently if 6 Rabbis were saying morning prayers loudly in Hebrew before boarding, then boarded the aircraft and acted in a similar fashion? What about 6 Italian Catholic priests praying, commenting to one another in Italian, then boarding and doing the same things as the imams? How about 6 plain looking American evangelical Christians praying, then boarding and doing the same thing? How about 6 Oklahomans, Texans or Montanans (is that a word?) who looked like Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? How about 6 skiers and riders praying to Ullr?

I can only speak for myself, but it makes no difference, they would all appear suspicious .. assuming the WT account of what occurred is accurate

[Dr. NO]

Would anyone have acted differently if 6 Rabbis were saying morning prayers loudly in Hebrew before boarding, then boarded the aircraft and acted in a similar fashion? What about 6 Italian Catholic priests praying, commenting to one another in Italian, then boarding and doing the same things as the imams? How about 6 plain looking American evangelical Christians praying, then boarding and doing the same thing? How about 6 Oklahomans, Texans or Montanans (is that a word?) who looked like Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? How about 6 skiers and riders praying to Ullr?

The Rabbis and Priests I can see, maybe even the ministers. DEFINITELY THE SKIIERS.

But, taking it to the rediculous is a stretch, don't you think?

Had they been together and assigned seats together it might have been better off. Had they simply sat in their assigned seats, nothing might have happened. Moving to stategic seating that they were not assigned to, especially in 1st class changes everything.

You wouldn't happen to have a box cutter handy would you?

[Bubba]

Would anyone have acted differently if 6 Rabbis were saying morning prayers loudly in Hebrew before boarding, then boarded the aircraft and acted in a similar fashion? What about 6 Italian Catholic priests praying, commenting to one another in Italian, then boarding and doing the same things as the imams? How about 6 plain looking American evangelical Christians praying, then boarding and doing the same thing? How about 6 Oklahomans, Texans or Montanans (is that a word?) who looked like Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? How about 6 skiers and riders praying to Ullr?

The Rabbis and Priests I can see, maybe even the ministers. DEFINITELY THE SKIIERS.

But, taking it to the rediculous is a stretch, don't you think?

Had they been together and assigned seats together it might have been better off. Had they simply sat in their assigned seats, nothing might have happened. Moving to stategic seating that they were not assigned to, especially in 1st class changes everything.

You wouldn't happen to have a box cutter handy would you?

My point is simply that their actions were suspicious but only because of their obvious religion. If 6 other people, non-Muslims, had done the same thing it would not have aroused the same suspicion.

[XtremeJibber2001]

If 6 other people, non-Muslims, had done the same thing it would not have aroused the same suspicion.

According to whom, you? I'd rather put my trust in an Air Marshall. No offense bubz