Some Good Information At Town Meeting

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millerm277
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Post by millerm277 »

Bubba wrote:Nyberg - Capital will be roughly $3 million this year, primarily to do repairs and face lifts. Snowmaking pipe, the Rams Head bathroom, new carpet, fixed up day care area at Rams Head. The Killington snowmaking system is not in terrible shape, although they need to figure out where some of the problems are and will be spending some dollars on simply locating problems with pipe. The Pico snowmaking system, however, needs serious work - one pipe alone will run $300K.
How about bringing the snowmaking system back to where it had been? Fixing the pipes on trails where they need repairs/total replacement? (Valley Plunge would come to mind)
And what about cleaning up the trails that need some serious matinence...like the forest growing on much of the ovation headwall?
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Post by Bubba »

millerm277 wrote:
Bubba wrote:Nyberg - Capital will be roughly $3 million this year, primarily to do repairs and face lifts. Snowmaking pipe, the Rams Head bathroom, new carpet, fixed up day care area at Rams Head. The Killington snowmaking system is not in terrible shape, although they need to figure out where some of the problems are and will be spending some dollars on simply locating problems with pipe. The Pico snowmaking system, however, needs serious work - one pipe alone will run $300K.
How about bringing the snowmaking system back to where it had been? Fixing the pipes on trails where they need repairs/total replacement? (Valley Plunge would come to mind)
And what about cleaning up the trails that need some serious matinence...like the forest growing on much of the ovation headwall?
As in other meetings, Chris asked for patience, thus the comment about the 7 year deterioration and the fact that it will take some time to bring things back. As to the specifics, I think they're trying to figure out the level of corrosion in the snowmaking pipes overall while making the necessary repairs in areas where they already know there are problems. (I'm wondering if there's even a working cathodic protection system here; whether the system was built and, if it was, if ASC might have shut it down to save money short term.) Trail maintenance is a question I haven't seen asked yet in public.
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Mister Moose
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Post by Mister Moose »

Vinny Vincenzo wrote:First to go. The pass program, which to the new owners was a skiing welfare program. Strip down all the negative-profit makers and what's left are the type of customer's that were keeping ASC alive in the first place. The high-margin customer who buoyed ASC's cash flow all along.

ASC made ALL4ONE passes available to the public at prices drastically below market value in a desparate attempt to make debt payments in the off-winter season. ASC sold us passes so cheap that by the end of the season each passholder represented an individual negative profit margin. After five or six visits, not only was a bronze passholder skiing for free, but ASC was actually paying him to ski, compensating him with the services it took to keep the hill up and running.

Park City Resorts sold passes starting August 1st for $1,195. Why should the new bosses change that? The former ASC passholders have developed a false sense of entitlement over the years.

The new Killington doesn't want the former ASC passholder's to walk away. They want them to run.
Not so fast.

They may well revert to a more fixed price system, but the majority of the other mountains in Vermont still have the multi tiered pass offerings.

If someone was considering a $365 or higher pass, they also looked at the MeTicket rates. At 10-12 tickets you got a $57 a day rate. Now the Bronze breaks even at 7 days. Join a ski club. Now the bronze breaks even at 9 days, and you are excluded from 14 of the most desirable days, especially if you have school age children.

For a $619 gold pass, the MeTicket broke even at 11 days, and the ski club breaks even at 15 days. Does Joe Average Skier ski more than 15 days? Does Joe average skier buy his pass in May? If he waited until October, the gold broke even at 13/17 days, respectively.

While the price of a restricted bronze type pass may go up, I don't see why it would disappear. While a few skiers ski 50-70 days on their pass, others ski very few. It's the average that counts, not the exception. In addition, the added cost (marginal cost) to service the pass customer is not that great.

I think the ski area wants us pass customers to ski more than the break even point, as long as on the average we buy food, drinks, and bring our friends to ski.

Comments were made about increasing midweek and non holiday business. Restricted pass pricing is one way to accomplish this.

The more you hear about maximizing yield the more choices and types of pricing products they are going to offer us, not less.

While ASC may have underpriced their pass offerings, they also learned a great deal from the experience. If I was buying the mountain, I would certainly include this data in the purchase. They know how many people blew off Meticket days, how many bronze passes were never skied at all, how many days on average each level of pass was skied for the season. This will undoubtably factor into their pass structure this year as they want to retain all of the advantages they learned, and have none of the cash flow pressure to price it lower than necessary. It is instructive that over the 3 year life span of the A41 pass, the prices did not rise significantly. They didn't leave that much on the table, otherwise a short term financing package to cover a summer payment would be more attractive than a too low pass price.

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Post by Vinny Vincenzo »

Well, Nyberg said at the Planning Commission meeting last evening that the announcement is Monday the 18th.
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Post by summitchallenger »

Just wondering...what is a:
working cathodic protection system


For snowmaking systems???
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Post by Vinny Vincenzo »

summitchallenger wrote:Just wondering...what is a:
working cathodic protection system


For snowmaking systems???
Can't they use galvinzed pipes instead of the CP system?
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Post by Bubba »

summitchallenger wrote:Just wondering...what is a:
working cathodic protection system


For snowmaking systems???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection

Cathodic protection is a way to defend against corrosion widely used in natural gas and other types of pipeline systems.
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Post by newpylong »

As I remember, ASC has spent around 2 Million the last few years "fixing snowmaking pipes, etc.", and we didn't notice a damn thing. So if they only plan on spending 3, it doesn't seem like its going to get very far....
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Post by Vinny Vincenzo »

Mister Moose wrote: While ASC may have underpriced their pass offerings, they also learned a great deal from the experience.
The entire industry learned from their experiences.

Here's some interesting information from National Ski Areas Association, Economic Analysis of United States Ski Areas:

Revenue per Skier Visit versus Expenses per Skier Visit

In addition to your resort’s demographic, skiographic, customer satisfaction, and NPS data, there are several other basic metrics to monitor, the first and foremost being revenue per skier/snowboarder visit versus expenses per skier/snowboarder visit. In the United States the most successful ski areas average about $72 in revenue per skier visit, nearly $10 more than the typical resort. At the same time, they average about the same level of expenses per skier visit -- $37 for the successful group versus $36 for the average ski hill.
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Mister Moose
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Post by Mister Moose »

Vinny Vincenzo wrote:
At the same time, they average about the same level of expenses per skier visit -- $37 for the successful group versus $36 for the average ski hill.
Vinny, thats gotta be the result of dividing all the resort's mountain related costs by the number of skier visits for the year. No way that's the marginal cost - the cost for one additional skier visit on a given day.

"Hey, if the average ski hill only spent $1 more per skier, they'd all be successful!"

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