Dobbs on the Money again ... rips Bush and Kennedy

[Dr. NO]

OK then...let's be more current than the Pilgrims. How about everyone who came into this country before about 1920? Everyone, and I mean everyone - to the best of my knowledge we had no immigration limitations until the first part of the 20th century.

And I'm still waiting for anything from anyone who tells me what they plan to do with the 12 million people who are here illegally. Are you planning on mass deportation?

Close the border and enforce the law, that's all I want. No legislation is needed, the laws are in place, it's time to enforce them.

Nice dodge - what do you plan to do with the 12 million or so currently here illegally?

NADDA, until they get caught. Once caught, determine the damage they have caused others and then DEPORT or INCARCIRATE.

Illegally entering the country is a FELONY. Obtaining false documentation is a FELONY. Faulsifying government documents, SSN, employment, taxes etc. is a FELONY. Prosecute accordingly and harshly and make it undesireable to get caught being an illegal. Afterall, it is ILLEGAL.

Then, prosecute the imployers that hired them.

and don't spell check

[Bubba]

OK then...let's be more current than the Pilgrims. How about everyone who came into this country before about 1920? Everyone, and I mean everyone - to the best of my knowledge we had no immigration limitations until the first part of the 20th century.

And I'm still waiting for anything from anyone who tells me what they plan to do with the 12 million people who are here illegally. Are you planning on mass deportation?

Close the border and enforce the law, that's all I want. No legislation is needed, the laws are in place, it's time to enforce them.

Nice dodge - what do you plan to do with the 12 million or so currently here illegally?

NADDA, until they get caught. Once caught, determine the damage they have caused others and then DEPORT or INCARCIRATE.

Illegally entering the country is a FELONY. Obtaining false documentation is a FELONY. Faulsifying government documents, SSN, employment, taxes etc. is a FELONY. Prosecute accordingly and harshly and make it undesireable to get caught being an illegal. Afterall, it is ILLEGAL.

Then, prosecute the imployers that hired them.

and don't spell check

And what do you do with their children who were born here and are citizens?

[Dr. NO]

OK then...let's be more current than the Pilgrims. How about everyone who came into this country before about 1920? Everyone, and I mean everyone - to the best of my knowledge we had no immigration limitations until the first part of the 20th century.

And I'm still waiting for anything from anyone who tells me what they plan to do with the 12 million people who are here illegally. Are you planning on mass deportation?

Close the border and enforce the law, that's all I want. No legislation is needed, the laws are in place, it's time to enforce them.

Nice dodge - what do you plan to do with the 12 million or so currently here illegally?

NADDA, until they get caught. Once caught, determine the damage they have caused others and then DEPORT or INCARCIRATE.

Illegally entering the country is a FELONY. Obtaining false documentation is a FELONY. Faulsifying government documents, SSN, employment, taxes etc. is a FELONY. Prosecute accordingly and harshly and make it undesireable to get caught being an illegal. Afterall, it is ILLEGAL.

Then, prosecute the imployers that hired them.

and don't spell check

And what do you do with their children who were born here and are citizens?

do we ask such question of citizens when we incarcerate them? Oh, you robbed a bank, now if we lock you up who will take care of the kids? NO, we put them in homes and life goes on. These people have a choice. leave them to government, who takes care of most of them anyway, or send them back to the family in another country to take care of them. If they are smart enough they will get documentation for the kids to be dual citizens and then they can come back at 18.

Bubba, it is not easy, but THEY ARE FELONS.

Is that with one L or two?

[XtremeJibber2001]

Dr No 3
Bubba 0

[Bubba]

Close the border and enforce the law, that's all I want. No legislation is needed, the laws are in place, it's time to enforce them.

Nice dodge - what do you plan to do with the 12 million or so currently here illegally?

NADDA, until they get caught. Once caught, determine the damage they have caused others and then DEPORT or INCARCIRATE.

Illegally entering the country is a FELONY. Obtaining false documentation is a FELONY. Faulsifying government documents, SSN, employment, taxes etc. is a FELONY. Prosecute accordingly and harshly and make it undesireable to get caught being an illegal. Afterall, it is ILLEGAL.

Then, prosecute the imployers that hired them.

and don't spell check

And what do you do with their children who were born here and are citizens?

do we ask such question of citizens when we incarcerate them? Oh, you robbed a bank, now if we lock you up who will take care of the kids? NO, we put them in homes and life goes on. These people have a choice. leave them to government, who takes care of most of them anyway, or send them back to the family in another country to take care of them. If they are smart enough they will get documentation for the kids to be dual citizens and then they can come back at 18.

Bubba, it is not easy, but THEY ARE FELONS.

Is that with one L or two?

So....you send the parents, most of whom are working and paying taxes, and contributing to Social Security, back to their home countries by the millions, but you keep their kids here as wards of the state because they're citizens and CAN'T be deported. You lose the tax dollars from the workers, you lose their contributions to Social Security so it goes bankrupt that much faster, you lose the work that they do, and you spend billions to take care of their kids who are left here without parents. Sure makes sense to me. Any other good ideas Doc?

[Dr. NO]

Nice dodge - what do you plan to do with the 12 million or so currently here illegally?

NADDA, until they get caught. Once caught, determine the damage they have caused others and then DEPORT or INCARCIRATE.

Illegally entering the country is a FELONY. Obtaining false documentation is a FELONY. Faulsifying government documents, SSN, employment, taxes etc. is a FELONY. Prosecute accordingly and harshly and make it undesireable to get caught being an illegal. Afterall, it is ILLEGAL.

Then, prosecute the imployers that hired them.

and don't spell check

And what do you do with their children who were born here and are citizens?

do we ask such question of citizens when we incarcerate them? Oh, you robbed a bank, now if we lock you up who will take care of the kids? NO, we put them in homes and life goes on. These people have a choice. leave them to government, who takes care of most of them anyway, or send them back to the family in another country to take care of them. If they are smart enough they will get documentation for the kids to be dual citizens and then they can come back at 18.

Bubba, it is not easy, but THEY ARE FELONS.

Is that with one L or two?

So....you send the parents, most of whom are working and paying taxes, and contributing to Social Security, back to their home countries by the millions, but you keep their kids here as wards of the state because they're citizens and CAN'T be deported. You lose the tax dollars from the workers, you lose their contributions to Social Security so it goes bankrupt that much faster, you lose the work that they do, and you spend billions to take care of their kids who are left here without parents. Sure makes sense to me. Any other good ideas Doc?

Exactly who's taxes are they paying? If they steal your SSN and then collect do you know who is out the money they collect? Your stolen SSN is once again a FELONY. AND, yep they pay taxes, but to whom? The employer collects them. Hmm, Illegals, Illegal employment, Illegal documents ? yep I'll collect and KEEP the money thank you, because if I turn it in the FED sees 2 SSN's or tax records and one has to be illegal.

Dumping 12 million people is not going to happen, but when you arrest and deport or incarcerate those that are caught others will think a bit more before coming here. Give 12 million amnesty and a buy in, like 1980's, and another 50 mil will be here in a decade. Where do you propose we stop it? When they take your identity and your home?

[Bubba]

NADDA, until they get caught. Once caught, determine the damage they have caused others and then DEPORT or INCARCIRATE.

Illegally entering the country is a FELONY. Obtaining false documentation is a FELONY. Faulsifying government documents, SSN, employment, taxes etc. is a FELONY. Prosecute accordingly and harshly and make it undesireable to get caught being an illegal. Afterall, it is ILLEGAL.

Then, prosecute the imployers that hired them.

and don't spell check

And what do you do with their children who were born here and are citizens?

do we ask such question of citizens when we incarcerate them? Oh, you robbed a bank, now if we lock you up who will take care of the kids? NO, we put them in homes and life goes on. These people have a choice. leave them to government, who takes care of most of them anyway, or send them back to the family in another country to take care of them. If they are smart enough they will get documentation for the kids to be dual citizens and then they can come back at 18.

Bubba, it is not easy, but THEY ARE FELONS.

Is that with one L or two?

So....you send the parents, most of whom are working and paying taxes, and contributing to Social Security, back to their home countries by the millions, but you keep their kids here as wards of the state because they're citizens and CAN'T be deported. You lose the tax dollars from the workers, you lose their contributions to Social Security so it goes bankrupt that much faster, you lose the work that they do, and you spend billions to take care of their kids who are left here without parents. Sure makes sense to me. Any other good ideas Doc?

Exactly who's taxes are they paying? If they steal your SSN and then collect do you know who is out the money they collect? Your stolen SSN is once again a FELONY. AND, yep they pay taxes, but to whom? The employer collects them. Hmm, Illegals, Illegal employment, Illegal documents ? yep I'll collect and KEEP the money thank you, because if I turn it in the FED sees 2 SSN's or tax records and one has to be illegal.

Dumping 12 million people is not going to happen, but when you arrest and deport or incarcerate those that are caught others will think a bit more before coming here. Give 12 million amnesty and a buy in, like 1980's, and another 50 mil will be here in a decade. Where do you propose we stop it? When they take your identity and your home?

i know you can't spell, but did your reading comprehension skills also go out with your engineering degree?

What part of working and paying taxes, paying into Social Security, and losing the work they contribute didn't you understand. They're not stealing anything. Yes, they commit a crime by having come here illegally but they're here and they contribute far more to society than they take.

As for deportation being a deterrent - we deport people every day. That's certainly worked wonders to deter illegal entry. You want them in jail? How many new jails are you going to build and at what cost?

Secure the borders? Absolute agreement. It's what you do with those that are here already that's the problem and so far you've not come up with any workable solution. If you believe that letting people stay and somehow become legal is not a solution, that it's amnesty, then the only solution is treating 12 million people as criminals. Doing "nadda" (or "nada", as literate people would write it) as you suggest is ignoring criminal behavior - amnesty by another form. Seems you're in favor of amnesty now, aren't you.

[Dr. NO]

My spelling sucks, my comprehension was just fine. If they are here illegally then how is it they are working legally? Some pay taxes but many do not. They are still ILLEGALS. What part of ILLEGAL and FELONY don't people understand?

We supposedly gave 300K Amnesty in the 80's. Turned out to be a few million. Now the number is somewhere between 12 Mil and 20 Mil. So, we once again say stay? How about we say you are illegal and if we catch you, you will be deported or incarcerated?

If this bill passes it will be the 3rd time we tried to "fix" the problem. There are laws on the books to deal with it, enforce them. There is a bill to increase boarder security and to build a fense to help slow the flow. Do it now and then work on getting rid of or doing something about those already here. We do not need another get to stay in America Free bill.

Wonder if Ted Kennedy co-authored the 1960's bill too?

[Bubba]

...There is a bill to increase boarder security and to build a fense to help slow the flow. Do it now and then work on getting rid of or doing something about those already here. We do not need another get to stay in America Free bill.

Dr. NO you ignorant slut.

The bill that you're so against says, in effect, exactly what you're demanding. In effect, the bill:

1. Increases border security with increased funds, fences, high tech security and more border guards.

2. Only after the southern border is secure, those already here as of January 1, 2007 will be allowed to pay a significant fine, spend something like 8 additional years here during which they must work, pay taxes, learn English, stay out of criminal trouble and only then be allowed to become citizens.

That bill, which you're so against, does exactly what you want it to. It's far from free.

[XtremeJibber2001]

...There is a bill to increase boarder security and to build a fense to help slow the flow. Do it now and then work on getting rid of or doing something about those already here. We do not need another get to stay in America Free bill.

Dr. NO you ignorant slut.

The bill that you're so against says, in effect, exactly what you're demanding. In effect, the bill:

1. Increases border security with increased funds, fences, high tech security and more border guards.

2. Only after the southern border is secure, those already here as of January 1, 2007 will be allowed to pay a significant fine, spend something like 8 additional years here during which they must work, pay taxes, learn English, stay out of criminal trouble and only then be allowed to become citizens.

That bill, which you're so against, does exactly what you want it to. It's far from free.

I don't agree with the current bill.

I want the following:

1.) A bill that allocates funding to build the wall/fench/strengthen the border and sets milestones of what portions of the fence should be complete by certain dates.

That's it, nothing more.

After the wall is built, just enforce the law. We can't deport 12 - 20 Million people, but if we show that the law is enforced it will force some to leave the country or to pursue the route of citizenship.

Families? The law doesn't consider "family situations" for any other law so I'm not sure why it should be any different now. You've put your child at risk and you'll have to live with the consequences. Just the same consequences the children of white collar crime, prostitution, drug dealers, buglers, terrorists, etc. face.

[Bubba]

...There is a bill to increase boarder security and to build a fense to help slow the flow. Do it now and then work on getting rid of or doing something about those already here. We do not need another get to stay in America Free bill.

Dr. NO you ignorant slut.

The bill that you're so against says, in effect, exactly what you're demanding. In effect, the bill:

1. Increases border security with increased funds, fences, high tech security and more border guards.

2. Only after the southern border is secure, those already here as of January 1, 2007 will be allowed to pay a significant fine, spend something like 8 additional years here during which they must work, pay taxes, learn English, stay out of criminal trouble and only then be allowed to become citizens.

That bill, which you're so against, does exactly what you want it to. It's far from free.

I don't agree with the current bill.

I want the following:

1.) A bill that allocates funding to build the wall/fench/strengthen the border and sets milestones of what portions of the fence should be complete by certain dates.

That's it, nothing more.

After the wall is built, just enforce the law. We can't deport 12 - 20 Million people, but if we show that the law is enforced it will force some to leave the country or to pursue the route of citizenship.

Families? The law doesn't consider "family situations" for any other law so I'm not sure why it should be any different now. You've put your child at risk and you'll have to live with the consequences. Just the same consequences the children of white collar crime, prostitution, drug dealers, buglers, terrorists, etc. face.

"After the wall is built, just enforce the law." Then you must be in favor of deporting 12 million people, some of whom are citizens. If you don't (and you acknowledge you can't) then you're allowing amnesty.

[XtremeJibber2001]

"After the wall is built, just enforce the law." Then you must be in favor of deporting 12 million people, some of whom are citizens. If you don't (and you acknowledge you can't) then you're allowing amnesty.

The 12 million "illegals" are exactly that, illegal. They do not have any documentation indicating any legitimate citizenship.

I'm certainly not advocating that "citizens" be deported, not sure how you got that from what I said, but OK. Maybe you're referring to the illegals "anchor children" that were born in the US and are now citizens. Fortunately, this isn't our problem. We deport the parents, what happens to the kids is, up to the parents ... after all, the parents got their kids in the mess to begin with.

It will take time, but eventually many of the 12 Million people will be deported, yes. Alternatively, some of the illegals may leave the country on their own free will and some may attempt to become citizens. Very few will be provided the freedom they've been provided up until today.

The cost of rounding all of the illegals into vans and holding a mass deportation won't work because the cost is too high and too much at one point in time. It will take many years, but eventually, very few illegals will remain if the law is enforced.

Why are you beating their drum? Do you get some sort of sick happiness from a justice system that gives out a free pass to illegal aliens? Meanwhile the rest of us "tax paying US Citizens" have to abide by the law and pay our taxes.

[Bubba]

The 12 million "illegals" are exactly that, illegal. They do not have any documentation indicating any legitimate citizenship.

Thanks for the definition.

I'm certainly not advocating that "citizens" be deported, not sure how you got that from what I said, but OK. Maybe you're referring to the illegals "anchor children" that were born in the US and are now citizens. Fortunately, this isn't our problem. We deport the parents, what happens to the kids is, up to the parents ... after all, the parents got their kids in the mess to begin with.

Well, you're advocating that citizen children be deported, which legally cannot be done. If the parents don't take their kids with them, they're our responsibility, draining our tax dollars for up to 18 years and, in some cases, becoming totally dysfunctional and turning to crime. Alternatively, we set up boarding schools around the country for them, pay for their private education, etc. Does that work for you? Or maybe we'll just reopen our WW II vintage internment camps that the Japanese were placed into out west. How will that sit with you?

It will take time, but eventually many of the 12 Million people will be deported, yes. Alternatively, some of the illegals may leave the country on their own free will and some may attempt to become citizens. Very few will be provided the freedom they've been provided up until today.

The cost of rounding all of the illegals into vans and holding a mass deportation won't work because the cost is too high and too much at one point in time. It will take many years, but eventually, very few illegals will remain if the law is enforced.

Why should any leave on their own? They came here illegally and they've been here in most cases for years. What makes you think they'll all start marching quietly toward the border? As for the rest, you think we have the resources to even begin processing, incarcerating and deporting even 1 million people? Damn, the jails will be filled; new jails will have to be built; and the justice system will be tied up in knots for years.

And how will illegal immigrants try to become citizens if they're going to be treated solely as criminals and deported? If you expect some to become citizens, you have to give them a path. The proposed bill does just that.

Why are you beating their drum? Do you get some sort of sick happiness from a justice system that gives out a free pass to illegal aliens? Meanwhile the rest of us "tax paying US Citizens" have to abide by the law and pay our taxes.

Beating their drum? No. Just explaining the illogic and impracticality of what you advocate. I should also be amazed at your ignorance but, having read your posts here for the past few years, amazement has waned.

[BigKahuna13]

I'm certainly not advocating that "citizens" be deported, not sure how you got that from what I said, but OK. Maybe you're referring to the illegals "anchor children" that were born in the US and are now citizens. Fortunately, this isn't our problem. We deport the parents, what happens to the kids is, up to the parents ... after all, the parents got their kids in the mess to begin with.

Ah no they are potentially OUR problem. They are citizens. They can't be deported. If the parents decide to leave them here - which many may well do figuring life as an orphan in the US is preferable to going home -
they become society's problem.

And that's completely beside the point that it would be immoral for us as a society to force millions of parents to make that choice.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Well, you're advocating that citizen children be deported, which legally cannot be done. If the parents don't take their kids with them, they're our responsibility, draining our tax dollars for up to 18 years and, in some cases, becoming totally dysfunctional and turning to crime. Alternatively, we set up boarding schools around the country for them, pay for their private education, etc. Does that work for you? Or maybe we'll just reopen our WW II vintage internment camps that the Japanese were placed into out west. How will that sit with you?

No, re-read what I wrote. I said that their parents should be deported and what they do with their kids is up to them seeing as how they were the one that endangered their child's welfare.

I would think very few would leave their children, but for those who do, I'd prefer my taxes go to supporting US Citizens versus a family of illegals.

If the children grew-up in English speaking households, there is a great chance they would actually be more successful then if they grew-up with their law-breaking, border jumping, uneducated, Spanish speaking parents. The same percentage for success exists that exists for the child to turn to crime and illegal activities ... same as it does for children of bona fide US Citizens.

Deport the parents ... let them choose what to do with their children, for those children left in the US that are citizens, I don't object to may tax dollars going to their care .... the alternative is far worse in my opinion.

Why should any leave on their own? They came here illegally and they've been here in most cases for years. What makes you think they'll all start marching quietly toward the border? As for the rest, you think we have the resources to even begin processing, incarcerating and deporting even 1 million people? Damn, the jails will be filled; new jails will have to be built; and the justice system will be tied up in knots for years.

Um, why shouldn't we? Some will leave the US and some won't. Heck, some will live their whole lives and never get caught, but many will and many will consequently be deported or start the path of citizenship.

No we don't, which is why illegals should be deported when they're caught. I'm not hoping for a mass round-up, just deport those that are caught. If we don't have the resources, let's allocate some.

Don't jail any of them, just deport them ... unless of course they committed murder, etc.

Beating their drum? No. Just explaining the illogic and impracticality of what you advocate. I should also be amazed at your ignorance but, having read your posts here for the past few years, amazement has waned.

Hmm .... enforcing the law is illogical and impractical and the "cost effective, tax payer conscious, no-amnesty-giving" alternative is ....?

My ignorance? I'll admit it when I'm being dense, ignorant, or difficult, but this is not one of these cases. Please select at which points you beleive I'm being ignorant. Sure, my point-of-view and solution may be different then yours, but I don't see how my solution is any more ignorant then your own?

Anyways, to keep things interesting, what's your alternative? I'm all ears.

Personally, having all the numbers/costs would sure help this debate. If I had the time and I knew someone somewhere had the interest, I'd bust all the costs out into a spreadsheet and see what were really talking about. Quite frankly, both you and I are just throwing costs and tax dollars around with no real perspective unto how the numbers really workout.

I'm certainly not advocating that "citizens" be deported, not sure how you got that from what I said, but OK. Maybe you're referring to the illegals "anchor children" that were born in the US and are now citizens. Fortunately, this isn't our problem. We deport the parents, what happens to the kids is, up to the parents ... after all, the parents got their kids in the mess to begin with.

Ah no they are potentially OUR problem. They are citizens. They can't be deported. If the parents decide to leave them here - which many may well do figuring life as an orphan in the US is preferable to going home -
they become society's problem.

And that's completely beside the point that it would be immoral for us as a society to force millions of parents to make that choice.

Yes, yes they are our problem. See what I wrote above.

As for being immoral, what do you mean? Is it immoral for us to send a crack whore to jail and leave her child alone and in some type of orphanage? Is it immoral when we split up a family and send someone to jail as is the case with some of the Enron executives? Is it immoral for a supporting father to go to jail for three consecutive DUI's when he has to support a family of 4?

Do you see a trend? All of these parents made that choice when they broke the law. They put their family and children lives and well being at risk and it's not immoral for us to remind them of that just like we do to average US citizens everyday.

If you're advocating that the "family situation" should be taken into account, then in all the cases above, their family situation would have to be taken into account and the charges brought by the prosecutor should fit for the "criminal's" "family situation".