Seven foreign chem engineers caught trespassing at Boston's

[DMC]

Straw men , false flags, deny, delay, obfuscate, I learned if it from the press.....the new mantra of the Obamacons and Progressives.

How anyone with an IQ over 80 falls for this administrations lies is beyond comprehension.

Please think for yourself and stop being a sheep.

Please follow you buddy ShortHairs - he knows how to be a sheep.... Baaaaah... Cheney- baaaaaah - Bush - Baaaaaaah - Rumsfeld - Baaaaaaw - thousands dead - baaaaaaw... Trillions lost.... baaaaaw....

[steamboat1]

So say the man that was led by the nuts into wars not needed by President Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld...

I guess if ANYBODY has a right to talk about being led like a sheep it's you and your Neocon buddies... baaaaah baaaaaah...

Another libocrat trying to re-write history. Yeah it was all Bush/Cheney. I'll leave it up to you to look up the 18 UN resolutions Saddam broke. Here's what the previous administration & leading democrats at the time had to say.




"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

[Bubba]

For those who love freedom, liberty and democracy, the fundalmental flaw of Islam is that there is no seperation of Church and State. Islam is the State, and the State is Islam. There is no freedom of religion. There is no liberty. There is no democracy. There is no such thing as constitutional rights as we know them. There is nothing to protect you from the State. This is the great and inevitable culture crash between Muslims and the West. Their fundalmental ideology does not coexist with ours, and never will. We will never live in complete peace side by side. They will always have their jihadist who will come to the United States and kill us, in the name of Allah.

Which means Islam is where Christianity was before the Enlightenment, the Reformation, etc.

Here's how I see things:

Islam is something like 500 years younger than Christianity and Christianity only became more tolerant in the 1600s into the 1700s. Therefore, Islam is several hundred years behind Christianity in its development. Christianity and the west have developed a set of social guidelines - separation of church and state in some countries (i.e. the US) and not so much separation in others (i.e. Ireland or even England where the monarch is also the head of the Church) but, in both cases, the power of Christianity to either run the government or heavily influence it is waning.

Islamic countries are going through the same developmental stages as the western world did over the past several hundred years. One would hope that technology, science, more open communication, etc. will accelerate that development and it certainly appears to be happening that way as seen by the "Arab Spring", Muslim communities here and elsewhere providing information to authorities about potential terrorists, etc. so I'm hopeful we won't have to wait a hundred or more years for development or a better social order. But, fundamentalism still exists (as it does in all religions) and the development of democratic institutions is messy and time consuming, and we have little power to influence that development in many parts of the world. Our goal should be more along the lines of containment of radicals and support for development.

[DMC]

Thank you Bubba...

My thoughts exactly... I was reminded of the nastiness and brutality of Christianity when I was in Paris a couple weeks ago...
Thousands killed in the name of Christ throughout it's history...

[madhatter]

For those who love freedom, liberty and democracy, the fundalmental flaw of Islam is that there is no seperation of Church and State. Islam is the State, and the State is Islam. There is no freedom of religion. There is no liberty. There is no democracy. There is no such thing as constitutional rights as we know them. There is nothing to protect you from the State. This is the great and inevitable culture crash between Muslims and the West. Their fundalmental ideology does not coexist with ours, and never will. We will never live in complete peace side by side. They will always have their jihadist who will come to the United States and kill us, in the name of Allah.

Which means Islam is where Christianity was before the Enlightenment, the Reformation, etc.

Here's how I see things:

Islam is something like 500 years younger than Christianity and Christianity only became more tolerant in the 1600s into the 1700s. Therefore, Islam is several hundred years behind Christianity in its development. Christianity and the west have developed a set of social guidelines - separation of church and state in some countries (i.e. the US) and not so much separation in others (i.e. Ireland or even England where the monarch is also the head of the Church) but, in both cases, the power of Christianity to either run the government or heavily influence it is waning.

Islamic countries are going through the same developmental stages as the western world did over the past several hundred years. One would hope that technology, science, more open communication, etc. will accelerate that development and it certainly appears to be happening that way as seen by the "Arab Spring", Muslim communities here and elsewhere providing information to authorities about potential terrorists, etc. so I'm hopeful we won't have to wait a hundred or more years for development or a better social order. But, fundamentalism still exists (as it does in all religions) and the development of democratic institutions is messy and time consuming, and we have little power to influence that development in many parts of the world. Our goal should be more along the lines of containment of radicals and support for development.

Ready the trains!!!

[madhatter]

Thank you Bubba...

My thoughts exactly... I was reminded of the nastiness and brutality of Christianity when I was in Paris a couple weeks ago...
Thousands killed in the name of Christ throughout it's history...

so should we go back in time and fix that? or should muslims kill thousands now to make up for it? What about the nastiness and brutality of Genghis Khan? Should we go back and right that? Or japanese imperialism? or...

were you attempting to make a point?

[DMC]

Thank you Bubba...

My thoughts exactly... I was reminded of the nastiness and brutality of Christianity when I was in Paris a couple weeks ago...
Thousands killed in the name of Christ throughout it's history...

so should we go back in time and fix that? or should muslims kill thousands now to make up for it? What about the nastiness and brutality of Genghis Khan? Should we go back and right that? Or japanese imperialism? or...

were you attempting to make a point?

wow...
You are a real douche today... Or more of a douche today than normal today... off the meds?

I was agreeing with Bubba..
Violence seems to be the natural progression of major religions before they reform.

[Bubba]

We should also remember that Islam is also at "war" within itself, with the fundamentalists of both Sunni and Shiite sects fighting each other more than they are actually attacking the west. There is, in fact, an "Islamic reformation" underway, with the youth of many Islamic countries leading the charge. This will take a few generations to sort out but fundamentalism among Muslims is losing out to modernization for sure.

[DMC]

We should also remember that Islam is also at "war" within itself, with the fundamentalists of both Sunni and Shiite sects fighting each other more than they are actually attacking the west. There is, in fact, an "Islamic reformation" underway, with the youth of many Islamic countries leading the charge. This will take a few generations to sort out but fundamentalism among Muslims is losing out to modernization for sure.

As was Christianity a war between Catholics and Protestants...

The Paris history that blew my mind was the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre of 1572...
Modern estimates put the deaths between 5,000 and 30,000 protestants(Huguenots) murdered by Catholic mobs..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartho ... y_massacre" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[madhatter]

We should also remember that Islam is also at "war" within itself, with the fundamentalists of both Sunni and Shiite sects fighting each other more than they are actually attacking the west. There is, in fact, an "Islamic reformation" underway, with the youth of many Islamic countries leading the charge. This will take a few generationsI wasn't counting on living more than a few generations, so what is the acceptable course of action during these "growing pains" that are adversely affecting the generations currently inhabiting the earth? to sort out but fundamentalism among Muslims is losing out to modernization for sure.

[DMC]

so what is the acceptable course of action during these "growing pains" that are adversely affecting the generations currently inhabiting the earth?

Treat them like shti?
Accuse them all of being terrorists?
Not allow them into our country?
Throw rocks at their Mosques?
Not allow them to worship where they want?

Or treat each individual with the respect they deserve as a human.

[f.a.s.t.]

We should also remember that Islam is also at "war" within itself, with the fundamentalists of both Sunni and Shiite sects fighting each other more than they are actually attacking the west. There is, in fact, an "Islamic reformation" underway, with the youth of many Islamic countries leading the charge. This will take a few generations to sort out but fundamentalism among Muslims is losing out to modernization for sure.

Sorry Bubba, you got it wrong. The Arab spring and Islamic reformation you are talking about is anything but modernization. The Arab spring is all about the Muslim Brotherhood, supporters of Islamic fundamentalism and a radical, extremist, jihadist movement to conquer the world by means of terrorism, death, destruction and war. The Arab spring is the exact opposite of modernization, for sure. This is what's happening in Syria today, Muslims killing Muslims to install an even more radical and extemist form of Islam than what's already there. The exact same thing has already happened in Egypt and it's spreading throught out the Muslim world. It's already there in Iran, this is clear as day. The youth of many Islamic countries that you say are leading the way in modernization will be killed off, they will be no match for the jidhadist supported by the emerging radical Islamic states forming all over the world. It's getting worse, way worse, not better. This is a simple fact to understand.

[DMC]

It's getting worse, way worse, not better. This is a simple fact to understand.

READY THE TRAINS!!!!!

[madhatter]

We should also remember that Islam is also at "war" within itself, with the fundamentalists of both Sunni and Shiite sects fighting each other more than they are actually attacking the west. There is, in fact, an "Islamic reformation" underway, with the youth of many Islamic countries leading the charge. This will take a few generations to sort out but fundamentalism among Muslims is losing out to modernization for sure.

As was Christianity a war between Catholics and Protestants...

The Paris history that blew my mind was the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre of 1572...
Modern estimates put the deaths between 5,000 and 30,000 protestants(Huguenots) murdered by Catholic mobs..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartho ... y_massacre" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

been a whole lot of that

Selected Death Tolls for Wars, Massacres and Atrocities Before the 20th Century

http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rank Death Toll Cause Centuries
1 66 million Second World War 20C
2 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C
40 million Genghis Khan 13C
4 27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C
5 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C
6 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C
20 million Joseph Stalin 20C
8 18½ million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C
9 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C
10 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C
11 15 million First World War 20C
15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C
13 13 million An Lushan Revolt 8C
14 10 million Xin Dynasty 1C
10 million Congo Free State 19C-20C
16 9 million Russian Civil War 20C
17 7½ million Thirty Years War 17C
7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C
19 7 million Fall of Rome 5C
7 million Chinese Civil Wars 20C


Still not really sure what any of that has to do with kzoners that oppress muslims and make them turn radical? Did Kzoners also incite all these other atrocities?

Or why one should be an islamic sympathizer? or an islamapologist? That their religion is 500 years behind other organized religions in terms of governance is of no consolation. Nor do the previous deaths of millions of others at the hands of oppressors evoke feelings of sympathy for " radicals lashing out". Being a "pro islam american" in the 2000's seems quite akin to being a " pro catholic huguenot" in the 1500's... Was that by any chance your point?

I like the paris history where when the king lied and stole from the populace they cut his head off!

[DMC]

I like the paris history where when the king lied and stole from the populace they cut his head off!

So - back to wishing the President of the United States gets assassinated?
You really scare me with this kind of talk about killing the President.