Mister Moose wrote:So its been 2 3/4 years since the start of this thread, and another (guessing) 2-3 years before that on the political board.
What's changed?
Perhaps the most vocal proponents of each side can sum up what has changed of significance in the last 5 years.
Anything?
Mister Moose, I'll put it in terms you might appreciate: you've gotten to sleep in more because there's been fewer powder days. Last time Killington reached it's nominal 250" average was 2010-2011. Over the 6 years since then the average snowfall has been 180 inches. Even ignoring that 81" outlier year, the average is still only 200 inches. I doubt it is a coincidence that 2016 and 2015 were the warmest years on record. 2017 is likely to crack the top 3 as well. Climate is changing, even right in Killington.
Mister Moose wrote:So its been 2 3/4 years since the start of this thread, and another (guessing) 2-3 years before that on the political board.
What's changed?
Perhaps the most vocal proponents of each side can sum up what has changed of significance in the last 5 years.
Anything?
Mister Moose, I'll put it in terms you might appreciate: you've gotten to sleep in more because there's been fewer powder days. Last time Killington reached it's nominal 250" average was 2010-2011. Over the 6 years since then the average snowfall has been 180 inches. Even ignoring that 81" outlier year, the average is still only 200 inches. I doubt it is a coincidence that 2016 and 2015 were the warmest years on record. 2017 is likely to crack the top 3 as well. Climate is changing, even right in Killington.
The attachment snowfall.JPG is no longer available
The climate is always changing, like it was apparently doing back in the late 80's early 90's:
Mister Moose wrote:So its been 2 3/4 years since the start of this thread, and another (guessing) 2-3 years before that on the political board.
What's changed?
Perhaps the most vocal proponents of each side can sum up what has changed of significance in the last 5 years.
Anything?
Mister Moose, I'll put it in terms you might appreciate: you've gotten to sleep in more because there's been fewer powder days. Last time Killington reached it's nominal 250" average was 2010-2011. Over the 6 years since then the average snowfall has been 180 inches. Even ignoring that 81" outlier year, the average is still only 200 inches. I doubt it is a coincidence that 2016 and 2015 were the warmest years on record. 2017 is likely to crack the top 3 as well. Climate is changing, even right in Killington.
snowfall.JPG
we need a tax to fix this....
mach es sehr schnell
'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
throbster wrote:
The climate is always changing, like it was apparently doing back in the late 80's early 90's:
You sorta make Rogman's point here. Throw out the high and low data points from the 2010-2016 sample and the mean snowfall is about 200".
Mean snowfall for the 1987-1991 sample is about 218". So yeah, total snowfall on a year by year basis obviously changed (and always will), but the average snowfall decreased about 8% between those two periods.
throbster wrote:
The climate is always changing, like it was apparently doing back in the late 80's early 90's:
You sorta make Rogman's point here. Throw out the high and low data points from the 2010-2016 sample and the mean snowfall is about 200".
Mean snowfall for the 1987-1991 sample is about 218". So yeah, total snowfall on a year by year basis obviously changed (and always will), but the average snowfall decreased about 8% between those two periods.
Snowfall on Alaska mountains has doubled – climate change blamed
throbster wrote:
The climate is always changing, like it was apparently doing back in the late 80's early 90's:
You sorta make Rogman's point here. Throw out the high and low data points from the 2010-2016 sample and the mean snowfall is about 200".
Mean snowfall for the 1987-1991 sample is about 218". So yeah, total snowfall on a year by year basis obviously changed (and always will), but the average snowfall decreased about 8% between those two periods.
Snowfall on Alaska mountains has doubled – climate change blamed
So... less snow is due to "Man-made Climate Change"
and.... MORE snow is due to "Man-made Climate Change"
Just amazing how versatile that magic CO2 molecule can be...even at PPM concentrations!!
They've had to start the Iditarod in Fairbanks two of the last three years because of lack of snow down in Willow. They routinely have to truck in snow now for the ceremonial start in Anchorage. Overall, climate change has hit Alaska hard. Impacts include thawing permafrost, sea level rise, more and larger forest fires, and more extreme weather events. Immediate impacts are increased erosion and flooding along Alaska's coast. More than 30 Native villages are either in the process of or in need of relocating their entire village. But great, there's more snow in the mountains.
throbster wrote:
The climate is always changing, like it was apparently doing back in the late 80's early 90's:
You sorta make Rogman's point here. Throw out the high and low data points from the 2010-2016 sample and the mean snowfall is about 200".
Mean snowfall for the 1987-1991 sample is about 218". So yeah, total snowfall on a year by year basis obviously changed (and always will), but the average snowfall decreased about 8% between those two periods.
Snowfall on Alaska mountains has doubled – climate change blamed
So... less snow is due to "Man-made Climate Change"
and.... MORE snow is due to "Man-made Climate Change"
Just amazing how versatile that magic CO2 molecule can be...even at PPM concentrations!!
They've had to start the Iditarod in Fairbanks two of the last three years because of lack of snow down in Willow. They routinely have to truck in snow now for the ceremonial start in Anchorage. Overall, climate change has hit Alaska hard. Impacts include thawing permafrost, sea level rise, more and larger forest fires, and more extreme weather events. Immediate impacts are increased erosion and flooding along Alaska's coast. More than 30 Native villages are either in the process of or in need of relocating their entire village. But great, there's more snow in the mountains.
I would agree that Alaska is one of the places with significant warming over the last couple decades...
but you were pointing out low snow totals at Killington as if it was somehow obviously due to CO2 (CAGW).
How does that same climate driver (CO2) cause MORE snow in the MOUNTAINS of Alaska but less snow at Killington??????
throbster wrote:
The climate is always changing, like it was apparently doing back in the late 80's early 90's:
You sorta make Rogman's point here. Throw out the high and low data points from the 2010-2016 sample and the mean snowfall is about 200".
Mean snowfall for the 1987-1991 sample is about 218". So yeah, total snowfall on a year by year basis obviously changed (and always will), but the average snowfall decreased about 8% between those two periods.
Snowfall on Alaska mountains has doubled – climate change blamed
So... less snow is due to "Man-made Climate Change"
and.... MORE snow is due to "Man-made Climate Change"
Just amazing how versatile that magic CO2 molecule can be...even at PPM concentrations!!
They've had to start the Iditarod in Fairbanks two of the last three years because of lack of snow down in Willow. They routinely have to truck in snow now for the ceremonial start in Anchorage. Overall, climate change has hit Alaska hard. Impacts include thawing permafrost, sea level rise, more and larger forest fires, and more extreme weather events. Immediate impacts are increased erosion and flooding along Alaska's coast. More than 30 Native villages are either in the process of or in need of relocating their entire village. But great, there's more snow in the mountains.
I would agree that Alaska is one of the places with significant warming over the last couple decades...
but you were pointing out low snow totals at Killington as if it was somehow obviously due to CO2 (CAGW).
How does that same climate driver (CO2) cause MORE snow in the MOUNTAINS of Alaska but less snow at Killington??????
Just amazing stuff actually.
What CAN'T it do??
I noticed this same phenomenon years ago at Stowe. While K was receding in season snowfall, stowe's snowfalls were increasing (per snow depth stake atop Mount Mansfield). Excess fringe moisture at frontal boundaries appeared to be inflating snowfalls at the highest elevations, where minor temperature increases are less impactful as they don't break the freezing mark. I'm pretty sure the discussion was in this thread somewhere about a hundred pages back or so. Not sure if this is still the case at Stowe...I'll look when I have a minute. As we all know, cold and snowfall are not equivalent.
Links to all referenced Peer-reviewed papers are linked in given in reference.
"In assessing the global-scale trends in near-surface (0-20 m) ocean temperatures between 1900 and 2010, Gouretski et al. (2012) determined that the world’s oceans warmed by about 1.1°C between 1900 and 1945 (~0.24°C per decade), but then only warmed by an additional net 0.3°C between 1945 and 2010 (~0.046°C per decade), including a cooling trend between 1945 and 1975."
The early 20th century warming was therefore about 4 to 5 times greater both in magnitude and rapidity as the post-1945 warming.
So…if ocean warming is due to increased release of CO2….why is it FASTER early in the last century when anthropogenic CO2 was minimal and SLOWER later when anthropogenic CO2 became significant??
Answer is….. we don’t know….but it seems UNLIKELY that anthropogenic atmospheric CO2 is a major driver of ocean warming.
World-Ocean-Heat-Content-0-20-m-and-0-400-m-Gouretski-2012.jpg (169.03 KiB) Viewed 447 times
Stormchaser wrote:I noticed this same phenomenon years ago at Stowe. While K was receding in season snowfall, stowe's snowfalls were increasing (per snow depth stake atop Mount Mansfield). Excess fringe moisture at frontal boundaries appeared to be inflating snowfalls at the highest elevations, where minor temperature increases are less impactful as they don't break the freezing mark. I'm pretty sure the discussion was in this thread somewhere about a hundred pages back or so. Not sure if this is still the case at Stowe...I'll look when I have a minute. As we all know, cold and snowfall are not equivalent.
Sgt Eddy Brewers wrote:
I would agree that Alaska is one of the places with significant warming over the last couple decades...
but you were pointing out low snow totals at Killington as if it was somehow obviously due to CO2 (CAGW).
I was being snarky for the benefit of or perhaps at the expense of Mister Moose. However, it's called climate change for a reason. It is not inconsistent to expect more precipitation in some areas, and less in others. We seem to be getting the short end of the deal. Predicting the changes in weather patterns due to warming is inexact, however it doesn't invalidate the basic science. Our recent string of poor snow years may be a coincidence; correlation doesn't equal causation. However, that doesn't mean the two aren't correlated either. Lot of noise in that signal, you can always cherry pick and come up with any conclusion you like.
Sgt Eddy Brewers wrote:
I would agree that Alaska is one of the places with significant warming over the last couple decades...
but you were pointing out low snow totals at Killington as if it was somehow obviously due to CO2 (CAGW).
I was being snarky for the benefit of or perhaps at the expense of Mister Moose. However, it's called climate change for a reason. (...'cause there really is no warming??) It is not inconsistent to expect more precipitation in some areas, and less in others.(can we predict which is which or is that somehow a limitation of this theory??) We seem to be getting the short end of the deal. Predicting the changes in weather patterns due to warming is inexact, however it doesn't invalidate the basic science. (Which says what exactly???? There will be warming and cooling ? Less snow and more snow? Droughts and floods?) Our recent string of poor snow years may be a coincidence; correlation doesn't equal causation. However, that doesn't mean the two aren't correlated either. Lot of noise in that signal, you can always cherry pick and come up with any conclusion you like.
well...I guess you wrote my reply for me...just need to highlight my agreement. (with a few extra comments)
Sgt Eddy Brewers wrote:
How does that same climate driver (CO2) cause MORE snow in the MOUNTAINS of Alaska but less snow at Killington??????
Just amazing stuff actually.
What CAN'T it do??
Let's see, increasing global temperatures lead to hotter air. Hotter air holds more moisture. More moisture means more snow in areas where it's still cold enough to snow but more r*in (i.e. less snow) where it's not. So around here, I would expect less snow than average at the beginning and end of the season (too warm for snow), but bigger storms mid season (more moisture and cold enough for snow).
In any case, I'm sure the good folks who run Killington believe that global warming is a hoax and have apportioned their resources accordingly.
