Pete Rose

[Bubba]

He's banned from baseball and is promoted shamelessly at the All Star Game?

[thedev]

I saw this on Sportcenter today and thought it was pretty interesting...
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13257517
Pete Rose should be in the HOF for sure.

[Bubba]

Great player, lousy liar. If he belongs in the Hall after violating THE cardinal rule of the game then the roid users belong as well.

[thedev]

Pete Rose and the steroid users are in two totally different ballparks, (no pun intended) Pete Rose bet on his own team to win which had no impact on the result of the games since he was trying to win. I know that the pros aren't supposed to bet on games but if these bets don't change the result then I don't see a problem. But with the PED users there is an unfair advantage which can impact the result of the game.

[Dr. NO]

Pete Rose testified that he only bet after he stopped playing and NEVER bet on games he was in. OOPS, turned out he had been betting on his games and many other games during his playing years. He should be rewarded?

[freeski]

He deserved to be banned for a decade or so. He should be reinstated. MLB will reinstate him in his twilight years which will be too late.

[XtremeJibber2001]

He bet on games when he was a player, something he has always denied, but was caught lying again. However, it doesn't take away from his on-field accomplishments and records. If Penn State's wins can be re-instated, I don't see why Rose can't be in the HOF. I know it's not the same, but we as a country and as sports lovers have forgiven much bigger items than this.

[Bubba]

He bet on games when he was a player, something he has always denied, but was caught lying again. However, it doesn't take away from his on-field accomplishments and records. If Penn State's wins can be re-instated, I don't see why Rose can't be in the HOF. I know it's not the same, but we as a country and as sports lovers have forgiven much bigger items than this.

Tell that to Shoeless Joe Jackson.

[SnoBrdr]

He bet on games when he was a player, something he has always denied, but was caught lying again. However, it doesn't take away from his on-field accomplishments and records. If Penn State's wins can be re-instated, I don't see why Rose can't be in the HOF. I know it's not the same, but we as a country and as sports lovers have forgiven much bigger items than this.

Tell that to Shoeless Joe Jackson.

Even you can't compare what Jackson did to Rose.

[Bubba]

He bet on games when he was a player, something he has always denied, but was caught lying again. However, it doesn't take away from his on-field accomplishments and records. If Penn State's wins can be re-instated, I don't see why Rose can't be in the HOF. I know it's not the same, but we as a country and as sports lovers have forgiven much bigger items than this.

Tell that to Shoeless Joe Jackson.

Even you can't compare what Jackson did to Rose.

What did Shoeless Joe actually do?

[SnoBrdr]

He bet on games when he was a player, something he has always denied, but was caught lying again. However, it doesn't take away from his on-field accomplishments and records. If Penn State's wins can be re-instated, I don't see why Rose can't be in the HOF. I know it's not the same, but we as a country and as sports lovers have forgiven much bigger items than this.

Tell that to Shoeless Joe Jackson.

Even you can't compare what Jackson did to Rose.

What did Shoeless Joe actually do?

As a result of Jackson's association with the scandal, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, Major League Baseball's first commissioner, banned Jackson from playing after the 1920 season. Since then, Jackson's guilt has been disputed, and his expulsion from baseball during the prime of his career made him one of the game's legendary figures.

n testimony before the grand jury on September 28, 1920, news accounts from the era claim that Jackson admitted under oath that he agreed to participate in the fix.

[thedev]

What did Shoeless Joe actually do?

He and seven other white sox players accepted $5,000 each to throw the world series, allegedly.

[Bubba]

What did Shoeless Joe actually do?

He and seven other white sox players accepted $5,000 each to throw the world series, allegedly.

His "crime" was having knowledge of the scheme but not disclosing it. In fact, during the 1919 World Series, he had a record 12 hits, batted .375, had no errors and threw a runner out at the plate.

According to Wikipedia:

Jackson spent most of the last 30 years of his life proclaiming his innocence, and evidence has surfaced that casts significant doubt on his involvement in the fix. Jackson reportedly refused the $5,000 bribe on two separate occasions—despite the fact that it would effectively double his salary—only to have teammate Lefty Williams toss the cash on the floor of his hotel room. Jackson then reportedly tried to tell White Sox owner Charles Comiskey about the fix, but Comiskey refused to meet with him. Unable to afford legal counsel, Jackson was represented by team attorney Alfred Austrian—a clear conflict of interest. Before Jackson's grand jury testimony, Austrian allegedly elicited Jackson's admission of his supposed role in the fix by plying him with whiskey. Austrian was also able to persuade the nearly illiterate Jackson to sign a waiver of immunity from prosecution. Years later, the other seven players implicated in the scandal confirmed that Jackson was never at any of the meetings. Williams said that they only mentioned Jackson's name to give their plot more credibility. Jackson's performance during the series itself lends further credence to his assertions. A 1993 article in The American Statistician reported the results of a statistical analysis of Jackson's contribution during the 1919 World Series, and concluded that there was "substantial support to Jackson's subsequent claims of innocence".[


If Shoeless Joe remains out, Pete Rose surely should.

[Stormchaser]

What did Shoeless Joe actually do?

He and seven other white sox players accepted $5,000 each to throw the world series, allegedly.

His "crime" was having knowledge of the scheme but not disclosing it. In fact, during the 1919 World Series, he had a record 12 hits, batted .375, had no errors and threw a runner out at the plate.

According to Wikipedia:

Jackson spent most of the last 30 years of his life proclaiming his innocence, and evidence has surfaced that casts significant doubt on his involvement in the fix. Jackson reportedly refused the $5,000 bribe on two separate occasions—despite the fact that it would effectively double his salary—only to have teammate Lefty Williams toss the cash on the floor of his hotel room. Jackson then reportedly tried to tell White Sox owner Charles Comiskey about the fix, but Comiskey refused to meet with him. Unable to afford legal counsel, Jackson was represented by team attorney Alfred Austrian—a clear conflict of interest. Before Jackson's grand jury testimony, Austrian allegedly elicited Jackson's admission of his supposed role in the fix by plying him with whiskey. Austrian was also able to persuade the nearly illiterate Jackson to sign a waiver of immunity from prosecution. Years later, the other seven players implicated in the scandal confirmed that Jackson was never at any of the meetings. Williams said that they only mentioned Jackson's name to give their plot more credibility. Jackson's performance during the series itself lends further credence to his assertions. A 1993 article in The American Statistician reported the results of a statistical analysis of Jackson's contribution during the 1919 World Series, and concluded that there was "substantial support to Jackson's subsequent claims of innocence".[


If Shoeless Joe remains out, Pete Rose surely should.

more probable than not...?

[SnoBrdr]

What did Shoeless Joe actually do?

He and seven other white sox players accepted $5,000 each to throw the world series, allegedly.

His "crime" was having knowledge of the scheme but not disclosing it. In fact, during the 1919 World Series, he had a record 12 hits, batted .375, had no errors and threw a runner out at the plate.

According to Wikipedia:

Jackson spent most of the last 30 years of his life proclaiming his innocence, and evidence has surfaced that casts significant doubt on his involvement in the fix. Jackson reportedly refused the $5,000 bribe on two separate occasions—despite the fact that it would effectively double his salary—only to have teammate Lefty Williams toss the cash on the floor of his hotel room. Jackson then reportedly tried to tell White Sox owner Charles Comiskey about the fix, but Comiskey refused to meet with him. Unable to afford legal counsel, Jackson was represented by team attorney Alfred Austrian—a clear conflict of interest. Before Jackson's grand jury testimony, Austrian allegedly elicited Jackson's admission of his supposed role in the fix by plying him with whiskey. Austrian was also able to persuade the nearly illiterate Jackson to sign a waiver of immunity from prosecution. Years later, the other seven players implicated in the scandal confirmed that Jackson was never at any of the meetings. Williams said that they only mentioned Jackson's name to give their plot more credibility. Jackson's performance during the series itself lends further credence to his assertions. A 1993 article in The American Statistician reported the results of a statistical analysis of Jackson's contribution during the 1919 World Series, and concluded that there was "substantial support to Jackson's subsequent claims of innocence".[

Ya I read the same Wiki page as you and you conveniently left out some info: In testimony before the grand jury on September 28, 1920, news accounts from the era claim that Jackson admitted under oath that he agreed to participate in the fix:[15]
“ When a Cincinnati player would bat a ball out in my territory I'd muff it if I could—that is, fail to catch it. But if it would look too much like crooked work to do that I'd be slow and make a throw to the infield that would be short. My work netted the Cincinnati team several runs that they never would have had if we had been playing on the square.

When Jackson left criminal court building in custody of a sheriff after telling his story to the grand jury, he found several hundred youngsters, aged from 6 to 16, awaiting for a glimpse of their idol. One urchin stepped up to the outfielder, and, grabbing his coat sleeve, said:
"It ain't true, is it, Joe?"
"Yes, kid, I'm afraid it is," Jackson replied. The boys opened a path for the ball player and stood in silence until he passed out of sight.
"Well, I'd never have thought it," sighed the lad.

Who knows if these points are in fact true but they must be added into the conversation.

Can't just cherry pick the info that people want to use. Add it all, good, bad or indifferent.

If Shoeless Joe remains out, Pete Rose surely should.