Killington's Impending Infrastructure Collapse

[snoloco]

Actually I never thought of the idea of moving the old RH4 to Snowshed. It would be closer to the planned new lodge and could be the primary lift with the current quad taking second fiddle. It would also be a bad idea to have only one lift in there.

Also maybe with a 6-pack on Snowdon, they can add a new poma lift for the racers right on Highline. It doesn't even need to be put on the map or open to the public.

My updated plan would then read:

2016: Ramshead 6-pack that goes back to the true summit of Ramshead. Refurbish the quad and put it on Snowshed replacing the doubles. It now becomes the primary Snowshed lift while the current one becomes the backup. To fit all the construction into one summer, get the RH4 outta there ASAP after that section closes. Reuse the tower tubes except on the extended line. Then send the parts off to be refurbished. Also, take down the Snowshed doubles quickly. Do the entire 6-pack and the new towers on Snowshed in early summer. Then November/December put in the former RH4 on Snowshed. This would give Poma plenty of time to rebuild it and if Snowshed opens before it is ready, they can always use the current quad till the new one is in.

Why do it this way when replacing the doubles isn't the highest priority? Then answer is that you need somewhere to put the RH4 so rather than storing it for a winter, you may as well just put it in. Also, this way, they don't have to pay for 2 brand new lifts in one summer.


2017: Rip out all 3 Snowdon lifts and install a 6-pack on the quad line. Install a race-only Poma Lift on Highline so they get direct lift access. Snowdon Quad gets refurbished and moved to South Ridge.

After Ramshead, the Snowdon and South Ridge upgrades are the next priority and these can be done in one summer without needing to buy more than one brand new detachable lift in a season. Ramshead gets more traffic than Snowdon, so it gets upgraded first.


2018: Replace North Ridge Triple with load carpet equipped fixed grip quad.

This would allow it to run in higher winds and you'd have less lift lines early season and a more reliable lift. This would improve the early season experience greatly which would attract more full season customers.


2019: Rebuild Pico's HSQ's with them receiving new chairs with footrests and new drive systems for faster line speeds and more capacity. Replace the Bonanza Double with a magic carpet and part it out for repairs to the Outpost Double. Major upgrades to Pico's snowmaking system as well. At the end Pico's season announce as a tease "This is your LAST CHANCE to ski/ride Pico Mountain as you know it". Then on May 1st, announce all the plans for 2020.

This is the setup year for the interconnect. In order to prepare for increased traffic from the interconnect, the two main lifts at Pico need to receive upgrades and there needs to be more snowmaking. Then when the extra skier visits come, they're totally ready for them.


2020: Interconnect!! Cut all the remaining trails needed to do it and install two fixed grip quads as the lifts. All interconnect trails need snowmaking. As for any branding changes, I'd say to completely absorb Pico into Killington by discontinuing the logo, and separate name. What is now Pico Mountain would be just part of Killington and be called Pico base and Pico Peak. The website would be redirected to Killington's website and all the trails and lifts displayed in the same snow report and trail map. Also, do away with all Pico only tickets and passes to make it feel even more like only one resort. The combined resort would be well over 2,000 acres and would immediately receive many more skier visits possibly returning to the numbers they had in the 90's.

[Snowboardgod]

Hello all!

I wanted to introduce myself here. I have been following k zone for years and finally decided to join. Recently moved to VT from RI, but have been coming to killington for about 10 years and to VT since I was born.

I love killington. We actually were in a position where we almost moved out west. I am fortunate to have family that lives in aspen and vail and get to frequent those areas often. I'm an east coast guy, so we decided to stay here. I personally hate NH, no offense to anyone here and have rode most of the resorts there and just don't like them. I'm a Vermonter I guess. We live near skyship, and I ride out of there or bear as soon and as long as possible vs going to the k1 area. Although I am too young to have enjoyed NEP I know all about it and wish it was still open!

Killington is great, when deciding where to move in Vt and which mountain to buy our season passes too it was a no brainier. While I agree that it would be awesome to have a new SR chair, and an upgrade to snowdon, I believe they are coming in time. I also love pico and am one of the people who wouldn't mind the interconnect never happening, or holding off for a while at the least. I've got no issues with killington, however; I wish the 3.5 million they spent on the summer activities would have gone toward winter improvements. I just don't see killington as a summer resort other then DH biking, hiking etc. the coaster is ridiculous, as is the other stuff.

I've been to vail, aspen, snowmass, Breckinridge, etc and they all do fine without these ridiculous attractions. They do have he mountain biking which I think is great for killington.

I love reading these threads to see people's ideas for future lift improvements and think the above is a great example. Hopefully next season we will see something significant. I agree that pass holders would like and deserve to have some of their requests answered with action.

People that bash killington really should just go elsewhere it's such a waste of time. When I get sick of killington I go to pico. When I get sick of this area ( which I don't) or bored or frustrated I go to Stowe. But to pay to play at Stowe, I'd rather just fly west. Imo killington is the place to be on the east coast and will remain so.

[Humpty Dumpty]

Hello all!

I wanted to introduce myself here. I have been following k zone for years and finally decided to join. Recently moved to VT from RI, but have been coming to killington for about 10 years and to VT since I was born.

I love killington. We actually were in a position where we almost moved out west. I am fortunate to have family that lives in aspen and vail and get to frequent those areas often. I'm an east coast guy, so we decided to stay here. I personally hate NH, no offense to anyone here and have rode most of the resorts there and just don't like them. I'm a Vermonter I guess. We live near skyship, and I ride out of there or bear as soon and as long as possible vs going to the k1 area. Although I am too young to have enjoyed NEP I know all about it and wish it was still open!

Killington is great, when deciding where to move in Vt and which mountain to buy our season passes too it was a no brainier. While I agree that it would be awesome to have a new SR chair, and an upgrade to snowdon, I believe they are coming in time. I also love pico and am one of the people who wouldn't mind the interconnect never happening, or holding off for a while at the least. I've got no issues with killington, however; I wish the 3.5 million they spent on the summer activities would have gone toward winter improvements. I just don't see killington as a summer resort other then DH biking, hiking etc. the coaster is ridiculous, as is the other stuff.

I've been to vail, aspen, snowmass, Breckinridge, etc and they all do fine without these ridiculous attractions. They do have he mountain biking which I think is great for killington.

I love reading these threads to see people's ideas for future lift improvements and think the above is a great example. Hopefully next season we will see something significant. I agree that pass holders would like and deserve to have some of their requests answered with action.

People that bash killington really should just go elsewhere it's such a waste of time. When I get sick of killington I go to pico. When I get sick of this area ( which I don't) or bored or frustrated I go to Stowe. But to pay to play at Stowe, I'd rather just fly west. Imo killington is the place to be on the east coast and will remain so.

Can I ask a question newbie? What justification or credentials do you have to claim yourself a Snowboardgod? Pretty pretentious, yes/no?

And be prepared to go through the spanking machine.

snoloco, out.

[Mister Moose]

I wanted to introduce myself here. I have been following k zone for years and finally decided to join. Recently moved to VT from RI, but have been coming to killington for about 10 years and to VT since I was born.
...

Welcome to the posting side of the board. Positivity for the sport and for the mountain is a good thing, although your name might catch some commentary.

[Snowboardgod]

I wanted to introduce myself here. I have been following k zone for years and finally decided to join. Recently moved to VT from RI, but have been coming to killington for about 10 years and to VT since I was born.
...

Welcome to the posting side of the board. Positivity for the sport and for the mountain is a good thing, although your name might catch some commentary.

Haha, understood. No worries.

[ME2VTSkier]

Any base area lift, i.e. Snowshed, Ramshead or KBL, has to work with and fit into the village plans. That being the case, and given the distance between the planned "skier services building" at Snowshed/Ramshead and the existing quads, it would seem that if you're going to replace lifts in those areas, you might want to relocate the base of the lifts closer to the new building. That would preclude use of the existing lift towers, wouldn't it?

I'm going with the thought that they towers won't be reused in their current locations. The engineering must be quite a bit different from a Quad to a 6-Pack, spacing requirements must be vastly different, and aren't the towers the old original double towers? A new install might even require new tower foundations, if you expect them to last another 50+ years. You'd want the 2 new lifts to be COMPLETELY new, to take the Resort very, very far down the road into the future with hopefully less of a TCO over the long run.

Putting a 6 pack at Ramshead and Snowdon will probably involve new towers anyhow, (Galvanized, no paint, less maintenance?) and since both of the old lifts SHOULD be re-used in other locations, they should be completely taken apart and inspected/rebuilt. Perfect time for drive/gearbox rebuild and replacing bearings. Towers can be blasted, inspected, and repainted easier while down and horizontal.

Obviously, with the bigger picture in mind, the loading areas will probably be extended some with the new installs, and the re-locations to serve the future base lodge area. Either do it now, or have it in the plan to be able to pick up the loading station/drive and move it further backward down the alignment, adding in whatever additional towers may be necessary to fill in the gap. This would obviously be more expensive, and I'd hope they'd do the new installs having figured in the new loading locations. New 6-Pack installs would have run-off barns/storage to eliminate chair/grip cleaning/deicing... ease of maintenance/testing/repair so those wouldn't be quite as easy to move if they weren't put in the right spot in the first place.

[ME2VTSkier]

Actually I never thought of the idea of moving the old RH4 to Snowshed. It would be closer to the planned new lodge and could be the primary lift with the current quad taking second fiddle. It would also be a bad idea to have only one lift in there.

Also maybe with a 6-pack on Snowdon, they can add a new poma lift for the racers right on Highline. It doesn't even need to be put on the map or open to the public.

My updated plan would then read:

2016: Ramshead 6-pack that goes back to the true summit of Ramshead. Refurbish the quad and put it on Snowshed replacing the doubles. It now becomes the primary Snowshed lift while the current one becomes the backup. To fit all the construction into one summer, get the RH4 outta there ASAP after that section closes. Reuse the tower tubes except on the extended line. Then send the parts off to be refurbished. Also, take down the Snowshed doubles quickly. Do the entire 6-pack and the new towers on Snowshed in early summer. Then November/December put in the former RH4 on Snowshed. This would give Poma plenty of time to rebuild it and if Snowshed opens before it is ready, they can always use the current quad till the new one is in.

Why do it this way when replacing the doubles isn't the highest priority? Then answer is that you need somewhere to put the RH4 so rather than storing it for a winter, you may as well just put it in. Also, this way, they don't have to pay for 2 brand new lifts in one summer.
Reverse your 16-17 plans, The need to improve the customer experience on Snowdon is overwhelming. Everything is still working fairly well on Ramshead, and it could survive as is for another year as it stands. You'll want the old Snowdon Quad down in the first year, it may take quite some time to refurbish it before sending it up on the South Ridge the following summer.

REMOVE THE POMA, put the 6 pack on this alignment as it terminates at the CENTER of Snowdon peak, not one side or the other, getting rid of the schlep across the top for those heading in the opposite direction, and spitting the difference of the angle between the K-1/Triple and the existing Quad location. Remember... it's going to extend much further down into K1 parking/Admin building area in the final plan.

It goes without saying, change the trail layout on Snowdon to fix the choke points...

No immediate plan for lift on Highline... Maybe move the Poma there... SOMEDAY, but not immediately. Wait and see how the new lift works out. (less lifts, less overhead)

If... there is to ever be an Interconnect, you have to start by TRYING to keep the number of lifts down, removing 2 off from Snowdon, may allow 1 to be installed eventually for an connection to Pico.

2017: Rip out all 3 Snowdon lifts and install a 6-pack on the quad line. Install a race-only Poma Lift on Highline so they get direct lift access. Snowdon Quad gets refurbished and moved to South Ridge.

After Ramshead, the Snowdon and South Ridge upgrades are the next priority and these can be done in one summer without needing to buy more than one brand new detachable lift in a season. Ramshead gets more traffic than Snowdon, so it gets upgraded first.


2018: Replace North Ridge Triple with load carpet equipped fixed grip quad.

This would allow it to run in higher winds and you'd have less lift lines early season and a more reliable lift. This would improve the early season experience greatly which would attract more full season customers.
At this point, The days of the Snowshed and Ramshead lodges should be numbered. Foundation should be going in for the new lodge, get it built right the first time around, plenty big enough to remove ALL other buildings in these two base areas, once construction is complete down the road, and the building is in service. It should be modern, more and more efficient to once again... reduce overhead.

Once that building is done, a village can be built around it at whatever timeline they want, 5 years, or 50. Who cares. (All I want to see is TRUE ski in/ski out lodging anyhow...)

2019: Rebuild Pico's HSQ's with them receiving new chairs with footrests and new drive systems for faster line speeds and more capacity. Replace the Bonanza Double with a magic carpet and part it out for repairs to the Outpost Double. Major upgrades to Pico's snowmaking system as well. At the end Pico's season announce as a tease "This is your LAST CHANCE to ski/ride Pico Mountain as you know it". Then on May 1st, announce all the plans for 2020.

This is the setup year for the interconnect. In order to prepare for increased traffic from the interconnect, the two main lifts at Pico need to receive upgrades and there needs to be more snowmaking. Then when the extra skier visits come, they're totally ready for them.


2020: Interconnect!! Cut all the remaining trails needed to do it and install two fixed grip quads as the lifts. All interconnect trails need snowmaking. As for any branding changes, I'd say to completely absorb Pico into Killington by discontinuing the logo, and separate name. What is now Pico Mountain would be just part of Killington and be called Pico base and Pico Peak. The website would be redirected to Killington's website and all the trails and lifts displayed in the same snow report and trail map. Also, do away with all Pico only tickets and passes to make it feel even more like only one resort. The combined resort would be well over 2,000 acres and would immediately receive many more skier visits possibly returning to the numbers they had in the 90's.

[Stache]

FWIW, I can see another quad on Snowshed (in place of the two doubles) but not a six pack. We already often load only three on the quad seeing as these are low level entry skiers who are not lift loading (or unloading) experts. Also a six would definitely have the potential to overload the slope (I know, lots of advanced skiers only need the lift to get to Needles or K1 basins). Just a quick thought.

[Highway Star]

Hopefully next season we will see something significant.

Awesome, that could be our new tagline here.....

K-zone: Hopefully next season we will see something significant.

[ME2VTSkier]

FWIW, I can see another quad on Snowshed (in place of the two doubles) but not a six pack. We already often load only three on the quad seeing as these are low level entry skiers who are not lift loading (or unloading) experts. Also a six would definitely have the potential to overload the slope (I know, lots of advanced skiers only need the lift to get to Needles or K1 basins). Just a quick thought.

[PinnacleJim]

FWIW, I can see another quad on Snowshed (in place of the two doubles) but not a six pack. We already often load only three on the quad seeing as these are low level entry skiers who are not lift loading (or unloading) experts. Also a six would definitely have the potential to overload the slope (I know, lots of advanced skiers only need the lift to get to Needles or K1 basins). Just a quick thought.

Yes. And even more importantly, you need a backup. When the current quad goes down, at least you have the doubles to get out of there.

[rogman]

Does anyone believe for an instant that we are going to see multiple new lifts from POWDR over the next 5 years? They've never done that anywhere.

[Highway Star]

Does anyone believe for an instant that we are going to see multiple new lifts from POWDR over the next 5 years? They've never done that anywhere.

Nope!!!!!!

[ME2VTSkier]

Does anyone believe for an instant that we are going to see multiple new lifts from POWDR over the next 5 years? They've never done that anywhere.

2 new Sixpacks over 5 years shouldn't be that difficult for them to do. Only going to save and make them more money in the long run. If they don't replace Snowdon Quad soon, it's only going to hurt them increasingly as the years pass. Same with South Ridge.

Skye Peak express goes down for any length of time, what do they do?(Soon or later is could happen) They closed lower Juggernaut, and only seem to use the old Snowshed Crossover late in the season, so how else other than shuttle buses, which is NOT great solution, are you supposed to get out of Bear without using BearQuad/SouthRidge?

[daytripper]

Does anyone believe for an instant that we are going to see multiple new lifts from POWDR over the next 5 years? They've never done that anywhere.

2 new Sixpacks over 5 years shouldn't be that difficult for them to do. Only going to save and make them more money in the long run. If they don't replace Snowdon Quad soon, it's only going to hurt them increasingly as the years pass. Same with South Ridge.

Skye Peak express goes down for any length of time, what do they do?(Soon or later is could happen) They closed lower Juggernaut, and only seem to use the old Snowshed Crossover late in the season, so how else other than shuttle buses, which is NOT great solution, are you supposed to get out of Bear without using BearQuad/SouthRidge?

When the SPQ breaks down (which has happened plenty) they just drop the ropes on the snowshed crossover. Two new lifts in 5 years??? Come on, powder has replaced one lift and removed one in the 7 or 8 years they have been here. I dont blame Solimono for this as I am sure he would love to replace lifts but the money comes from out west and it aint coming out here. I think local managment does a great job with what they can but their hands are tied when it comes to capital expenses.