RFID

[PinnacleJim]

For those not familiar with the Vail RFID system, they do not have gates, but use people with handheld scanners, it's just that they are FAST. I would guess the savings in the number of ticket scanner bodies needed plus the reduction in missed pass/ticket scans would pay for the hardware in a pretty short time.

[ME2VTSkier]

For those not familiar with the Vail RFID system, they do not have gates, but use people with handheld scanners, it's just that they are FAST. I would guess the savings in the number of ticket scanner bodies needed plus the reduction in missed pass/ticket scans would pay for the hardware in a pretty short time.

If they only catch/stop 10 people per day, from trying to ski for free, and it at least equaled out to a bare minimum of another $57.50 for each of those 10 people, that would add up to an additional 100k per year income based on 175 days. I'm sure on some days, more than 10 are scamming, some days less. Some days it would be worth more money than other, but at 10 people, what, it would only take 2 years to re-coup the investment at the worst? Seems like a no-brainer... Got to be some damn good reasons why the other resorts are all going that way.

[tyrolean_skier]

At Jackson Hole where I vacationed recently they use RFID and it worked well. There was always a person at the gates in case it did not work. That ski area also has many entry points. As others have said, RFID should resolve the issue of persons not paying for a lift ticket and getting away with it.

[Captain Hafski]

In Austria, you stick your pass in your pocket. At every lower lift, you go through a scanner / turnstile. This is monitored by one [of usually two on duty] lift attendants that are positioned to observe both the lift loading and the RFID turnstiles.

Never a problem nor holdup getting onto the lift.

Of course, it is Eurpope so what follows is a free for all getting onto the lift.

[Seacoaster]

Ironically, we got back from Le massif last week, the first day on snow at home and my 11 year old says, why don't we have those cards like they had at.......

[Stormchaser]

RFID is not the silver bullet some make it out to be. Have seen tons of places with RFID not load efficiently. Night skiing at Wachusett this week was a great example. Empty chairs going up while some noobs couldn’t get their group together and oblivious liftys (3 in a shack) watching as many empty chairs go by. The only thing RFID would help is theft of services. I have not been scanned almost every midweek day I have skied K and Pico this season (including over holidays) but have been scanned on the weekend. As far as empty chairs go, chaos can ensue between the RFID gate and the ready line. Just wait til they install it and still have chaos and less CapEx to throw around. as far as ease of use, I have seen lots of people be unable to efficiently use RFID whether it be a poor pocket placement or some technical issue.

Wawa (and others...Mt. Snow...) are now using cameras at lift lines and facial recognition software to compare facial features to your pass photos. Had a friend use someone else's pass at Snow. After he was scanned, a lifty came running over directly to him in line and asked his name and birthday...BUSTED! $100 fine, $100 day ticket, buddy lost his pass...

[brownman]

Forerunner quad has used facial SW effectively for years.
Lotsa false positives when face masks are in use

.. finally .. Stormy admits he hangs with the criminal element

[RustyK]

Jay and The Bush both had RFID on the lower lifts. Hard to poach there.

Da Bush had people with a large IPad that had your picture on it for some reason as you went through the gate.

I think I'm up the three un scanned days at the K now.

The K express pass the ultimate free day access here. According to the holders.

[jimmywilson69]

I'm sure there is "product loss" at all ski resorts that aren't using RFID. Do you locals to really think the problem at K is so rampant?

I'm all for it, hell if it wasn't so expensive I'd be for it at my local hill. The high school kids running scanners can't get them to work half of the time anyways...

[boston_e]

Da Bush had people with a large IPad that had your picture on it for some reason as you went through the gate.

Without that, wouldn't it be pretty easy to just stick someone elses RFID pass in your pocket and use it for the day?

If it is just put a pass in your pocket and walk up to the gate with nobody checking it would be pretty easy to steal days using someone elses borrowed pass.

(I've never had an RFID season pass... only day tickets so I don't fully know the process)

[brownman]

.. some find it useful to be on a first name basis with all lifties

Tipping still works, although the nominal rate is a bit higher ..

[hillbangin]

RFID is not the silver bullet some make it out to be. Have seen tons of places with RFID not load efficiently. Night skiing at Wachusett this week was a great example. Empty chairs going up while some noobs couldn’t get their group together and oblivious liftys (3 in a shack) watching as many empty chairs go by. The only thing RFID would help is theft of services. I have not been scanned almost every midweek day I have skied K and Pico this season (including over holidays) but have been scanned on the weekend. As far as empty chairs go, chaos can ensue between the RFID gate and the ready line. Just wait til they install it and still have chaos and less CapEx to throw around. as far as ease of use, I have seen lots of people be unable to efficiently use RFID whether it be a poor pocket placement or some technical issue.

Wawa (and others...Mt. Snow...) are now using cameras at lift lines and facial recognition software to compare facial features to your pass photos. Had a friend use someone else's pass at Snow. After he was scanned, a lifty came running over directly to him in line and asked his name and birthday...BUSTED! $100 fine, $100 day ticket, buddy lost his pass...

Isn't that the first rule of using a fake ID - Name address birthday serial number etc.

I'm sure Mike and team have run the numbers and they are OK with the leakage.

Some leakage is OK - parents sharing a day ticket, etc

Some leakage is not.

I'm sure there is way more leakage ( almost all ) on Saturday than the rest of the week. So they probably don't care.

[daytripper]

I'm sure there is "product loss" at all ski resorts that aren't using RFID. Do you locals to really think the problem at K is so rampant?

I'm all for it, hell if it wasn't so expensive I'd be for it at my local hill. The high school kids running scanners can't get them to work half of the time anyways...

While skiing mid week it is rare I ever get scanned, even weekends I'd say it's about 50-50 chance, I must say this Sunday they were scanning in force, got to be a little annoying because chairs were going up empty from the bottleneck but they are probably hurting from the bad holidays so far this year and need to be sure to scan all. Can't really blame them for that.

[Killington_Lover]

RFID....

Wawa (and others...Mt. Snow...) are now using cameras at lift lines and facial recognition software to compare facial features to your pass photos. Had a friend use someone else's pass at Snow. After he was scanned, a lifty came running over directly to him in line and asked his name and birthday...BUSTED! $100 fine, $100 day ticket, buddy lost his pass...

That’s great use of technology to bust those who are trying to beat the system... I don’t think my previous point was anything about RFID being bad for theft of services, just that I have seen many, many RFID resorts struggle to load efficiently. Point being is if human lift ops aren’t forcing good line formation/loading there is plenty of opportunity for the rfid gates to be a bottleneck, or new complications of the technology; If you go to the beginner quad at Wawa you may see many people who were not told where to properly put the cards and for whatever reason do not activate the gates correctly. I have seen it at WaWa, and the few places in Austria I have been to. That said, lapping timberline this weekend they did a so so job loading ramshead; the lady bringing groups out from the front of the line seemed to have a continuous loss of situational awareness; of the 5 or so lanes that were open she would mistakenly pull two groups (not consolidating) from the same line, with the queues nearly 3/4 full is mildly infuriating. Based on what I have seen of the human errors loading I have little faith that the added tech of RFID results in less empty chairs going up, I propose it will cause more based on my experience.

[Big Bob]

I skied Mnt Sunapee today which is a sister resort to Pokemo. I used my Maxx Pass so I had to go to the ticket window since the RFID chip in the Maxx Pass does not work with their system. I was given a card to place in my upper pocket with nothing else in the pocket including another RFID card. I had no issues at all, but the first ride up 2 out of 4 in front of me were not allowed to pace through the gate. We just went around them without difficulty.

Last time I was at K there was a fresh batch of Mexicans scanning and it got annoying to say the least. They could not remember my bright green coat, but the day before the girl had no problem waving me on after a few scans. I think they need more distance between the scanners and the load area to build a cue of scanned people so empty chairs do not go up. I do like Vail's system where they just have to scan you and not the bar code, I would think that just by upgrading the scanners and the passes would be far cheaper to implement rather than putting in the turnstiles. Similar to easy pass on the highway.