RFID

[heiusa]

I skied at Pico on Sunday and they even had an employee scanning at the summit express. Never had seen that before. I noticed that the employees at K on Saturday and Pico on Sunday were more aggressive in making sure that you got scanned.

[boston_e]

They have scanned in the summit quad before. Not consistently but I have seen it.

[Snowboardgod]

I’ve got somewhere between 10-15 days at pico so far this season and noticed maybe 8-10 of those someone was scanning at the summit quad as well. I was suprised at first. As someone who needs the scans for the 100 club, pico is often a pain to get them. This year has been noticeably better imo. Although I’ve been 3 days so far this year to pico where they were not scanning at all, when I asked if anyone had a scanner I just got a shrug. Went to killington for a few laps on those days for a scan.

[daytripper]

I’ve got somewhere between 10-15 days at pico so far this season and noticed maybe 8-10 of those someone was scanning at the summit quad as well. I was suprised at first. As someone who needs the scans for the 100 club, pico is often a pain to get them. This year has been noticeably better imo. Although I’ve been 3 days so far this year to pico where they were not scanning at all, when I asked if anyone had a scanner I just got a shrug. Went to killington for a few laps on those days for a scan.

At K you can get scanned at guest services, should be the same at Pico.

[Snowboardgod]

I’ve got somewhere between 10-15 days at pico so far this season and noticed maybe 8-10 of those someone was scanning at the summit quad as well. I was suprised at first. As someone who needs the scans for the 100 club, pico is often a pain to get them. This year has been noticeably better imo. Although I’ve been 3 days so far this year to pico where they were not scanning at all, when I asked if anyone had a scanner I just got a shrug. Went to killington for a few laps on those days for a scan.

At K you can get scanned at guest services, should be the same at Pico.

Yeah I figured this too. Unfortunately the two times I went in to try the staff said only the supervisor could do it who wasn’t there either time, didn’t even attempt
On the third, just finished my day at skyeship in the way home. Thank you though!

[Mister Moose]

Might be coming to Killington next season.

[rogman]

Might be coming to Killington next season.

I'll assume they have very good numbers from past years at Copper without RFID. This year, they are getting numbers with RFID. If they are changing their tune, it is the Copper numbers that are making them change.

I believe that trying to measure the losses due to people avoiding being scanned is like trying to count cockroaches. For everyone you see, assume there are another 100 (or maybe 1000) that you don't see. Killington's visits are on the order of 800,000 a year. If you assume that there are 1% that are avoiding being scanned, then that's 8000 people a year, and at 50 bucks a hit, $400 thousand dollars a year. That's kind of a no brainer, and strongly suggests the need for some kind of RFID automation to prevent fraud. However, if the actual rate is 0.1%, then its $40000/year. That's a little harder to justify. So it comes down to what you believe the numbers really are. If the early returns on the Copper investment indicate that the losses are greater than POWDR has previously estimated, then the investment at Killington will come much sooner.

I've never seen published estimates on the actual losses across the industry. I suspect resorts keep those numbers pretty close to the vest. However I'll bet the vendors of those systems have a pretty good numbers, and have a strong sales pitch to those making decisions. When the subject has come up in my conversations with K management, they've downplayed the issue; I've repeatedly stated my belief that the losses are far bigger than they realize. I'll be curious if Killington has changed their view.

[hillbangin]

Might be coming to Killington next season.

I'll assume they have very good numbers from past years at Copper without RFID. This year, they are getting numbers with RFID. If they are changing their tune, it is the Copper numbers that are making them change.

I believe that trying to measure the losses due to people avoiding being scanned is like trying to count cockroaches. For everyone you see, assume there are another 100 (or maybe 1000) that you don't see. Killington's visits are on the order of 800,000 a year. If you assume that there are 1% that are avoiding being scanned, then that's 8000 people a year, and at 50 bucks a hit, $400 thousand dollars a year. That's kind of a no brainer, and strongly suggests the need for some kind of RFID automation to prevent fraud. However, if the actual rate is 0.1%, then its $40000/year. That's a little harder to justify. So it comes down to what you believe the numbers really are. If the early returns on the Copper investment indicate that the losses are greater than POWDR has previously estimated, then the investment at Killington will come much sooner.

I've never seen published estimates on the actual losses across the industry. I suspect resorts keep those numbers pretty close to the vest. However I'll bet the vendors of those systems have a pretty good numbers, and have a strong sales pitch to those making decisions. When the subject has come up in my conversations with K management, they've downplayed the issue; I've repeatedly stated my belief that the losses are far bigger than they realize. I'll be curious if Killington has changed their view.

Adding to your point - it's more like 70 bucks a day per ticket or $560,00K - per year.

They can also measure who/how many is/are going into the lodge and what they are spending...

[boston_e]

Might be coming to Killington next season.

I'll assume they have very good numbers from past years at Copper without RFID. This year, they are getting numbers with RFID. If they are changing their tune, it is the Copper numbers that are making them change.

I believe that trying to measure the losses due to people avoiding being scanned is like trying to count cockroaches. For everyone you see, assume there are another 100 (or maybe 1000) that you don't see. Killington's visits are on the order of 800,000 a year. If you assume that there are 1% that are avoiding being scanned, then that's 8000 people a year, and at 50 bucks a hit, $400 thousand dollars a year. That's kind of a no brainer, and strongly suggests the need for some kind of RFID automation to prevent fraud. However, if the actual rate is 0.1%, then its $40000/year. That's a little harder to justify. So it comes down to what you believe the numbers really are. If the early returns on the Copper investment indicate that the losses are greater than POWDR has previously estimated, then the investment at Killington will come much sooner.

I've never seen published estimates on the actual losses across the industry. I suspect resorts keep those numbers pretty close to the vest. However I'll bet the vendors of those systems have a pretty good numbers, and have a strong sales pitch to those making decisions. When the subject has come up in my conversations with K management, they've downplayed the issue; I've repeatedly stated my belief that the losses are far bigger than they realize. I'll be curious if Killington has changed their view.

Adding to your point - it's more like 70 bucks a day per ticket or $560,00K - per year.

They can also measure who/how many is/are going into the lodge and what they are spending...

Although it might not be that much they gain back. There are assuredly people who might try to "avoid" being scanned with their max pass and end up skiing a 6th day, but might not buy that 6th day of lift ticket if they do get scanned.

Also, since I have never had an RFID season pass, what is to prevent someone from putting another persons pass in their pocket for getting on the lift? At least with a scanned season pass, the lift operator in theory is looking at the persons photo.

[ME2VTSkier]

Also, since I have never had an RFID season pass, what is to prevent someone from putting another persons pass in their pocket for getting on the lift? At least with a scanned season pass, the lift operator in theory is looking at the persons photo.

Your picture is taken and on file in the system when you pick up your card. Every passes owner comes up on screen on the pad/tablet at the lift.

[Stormchaser]

Also, since I have never had an RFID season pass, what is to prevent someone from putting another persons pass in their pocket for getting on the lift? At least with a scanned season pass, the lift operator in theory is looking at the persons photo.

Your picture is taken and on file in the system when you pick up your card. Every passes owner comes up on screen on the pad/tablet at the lift.

And facial recognition software compares shape mapping to see if the shape of your face under your ski gear matches the one in your photo, then alerts the lifty monitoring the tablet of any potential discrepancies. Lifty approaches you and asks you to verify your information verbally. If you can't, you've just been caught stealing...

[BoozeTan]

along these lines I learned something this past weekend that I did not know. I was getting on the SPE chair and got scanned. Then after I asked the liftee how many days I had. He scanned me and said to ask him again next time I got in line. Apparently the scanners know how long the lift ride is supposed to be and will not allow you to be scanned again till that time expires. This prevents you from getting scanned and then giving your pass to someone else in line. Makes sense but I had no idea that was programmed into the scanners.

[madhatter]

along these lines I learned something this past weekend that I did not know. I was getting on the SPE chair and got scanned. Then after I asked the liftee how many days I had. He scanned me and said to ask him again next time I got in line. Apparently the scanners know how long the lift ride is supposed to be and will not allow you to be scanned again till that time expires. This prevents you from getting scanned and then giving your pass to someone else in line. Makes sense but I had no idea that was programmed into the scanners.

pretty sure you were standing right next to me when you asked them he then demonstrated the "crash" sound it makes when he tries to scan again?

[daytripper]

along these lines I learned something this past weekend that I did not know. I was getting on the SPE chair and got scanned. Then after I asked the liftee how many days I had. He scanned me and said to ask him again next time I got in line. Apparently the scanners know how long the lift ride is supposed to be and will not allow you to be scanned again till that time expires. This prevents you from getting scanned and then giving your pass to someone else in line. Makes sense but I had no idea that was programmed into the scanners.

pretty sure you were standing right next to me when you asked them he then demonstrated the "crash" sound it makes when he tries to scan again?

Every now and then I hear the crash sound when being scanned, never have been stopped from getting on the lift or anything so not really sure what it means.

[Stormchaser]

along these lines I learned something this past weekend that I did not know. I was getting on the SPE chair and got scanned. Then after I asked the liftee how many days I had. He scanned me and said to ask him again next time I got in line. Apparently the scanners know how long the lift ride is supposed to be and will not allow you to be scanned again till that time expires. This prevents you from getting scanned and then giving your pass to someone else in line. Makes sense but I had no idea that was programmed into the scanners.

pretty sure you were standing right next to me when you asked them he then demonstrated the "crash" sound it makes when he tries to scan again?

Every now and then I hear the crash sound when being scanned, never have been stopped from getting on the lift or anything so not really sure what it means.

My neighbor has been getting that the last two weekends. They keep telling him he needs to go sign his waiver... He keeps forgetting.