Killington Lift Structure. SAD!

[eagle628]

So you want to put a high speed six pack to replace the canyon quad? The one lift you are pretty much guaranteed to NOT have a line at on the busiest Saturday? The only place Killington needs a 6 pack is at ramshead.

I mean, me personally? Not terribly. I rarely ski on weekends anyway, so it doesn't bother me one way or the other. But in the context of putting a six pack to the canyon, I'd rather have one going all the way up. And I'm not a fan of gondolas in general, so any opportunity to avoid K1 I will jump at. I'd just as soon put an HSQ on the Snowdon Triple line to get to the canyon faster. Actually, I really hate gondolas.

I agree 100℅ on hating gondolas, I hate taking my skis off and sitting in the germ box, but a six pack up the canyon is a huge waste of money

Maybe. But K1 will always be a chokepoint, everyone has to go through there to get to the peak/Canyon, and at this point I have no hope that there will ever be a lift on South Ridge again (not to say I wouldn't love to eat crow...), so I think the biggest problem with the current lift setup is the lack of capacity out of there. I don't know what the answer is, which is probably why I talk about Killington rather than run it, but I think it's something they will have to address, particularly if the mountain hopes to reach its historical highs of skier traffic again.

[Ragged#1]

Say whatever you want but snowdon needs a HSQ. Add snowmaking to North Star, vag and great bear for all I care.

[HomeStretchFan]

Seems like you all love to complain and whine about how great everyplace else is. Jeesh.

I was there Saturday with my friend, who got his first Killington experience. We didn't spend more than 5-7 minutes in any lift line... INCLUDING the K1 Gondola. No, we didn't go down the singles line. The lodges were the most chaotic experience of the entire day.

I've been out west -- and I've experienced issues. Full shutdown at Winter Park, Colorado. Slowdowns/shutdowns on Park City/Canyon lifts due to wind & ice. Keystone had people stranded on a lift for 2 hours in a snowstorm. Stuff happens EVERYWHERE.

To the South Ridge People -- answer this. How many days are those trails open a year? Does it make sense investing $2-5M on a new lift for that terrain, if you can't get it open until January, and it only stays open until mid-March?

[Mister Moose]

Say whatever you want but snowdon needs a HSQ. Add snowmaking to North Star, vag and great bear for all I care.

Uh oh.... it's the big one...

[daytripper]

Seems like you all love to complain and whine about how great everyplace else is. Jeesh.

I was there Saturday with my friend, who got his first Killington experience. We didn't spend more than 5-7 minutes in any lift line... INCLUDING the K1 Gondola. No, we didn't go down the singles line. The lodges were the most chaotic experience of the entire day.

I've been out west -- and I've experienced issues. Full shutdown at Winter Park, Colorado. Slowdowns/shutdowns on Park City/Canyon lifts due to wind & ice. Keystone had people stranded on a lift for 2 hours in a snowstorm. Stuff happens EVERYWHERE.

To the South Ridge People -- answer this. How many days are those trails open a year? Does it make sense investing $2-5M on a new lift for that terrain, if you can't get it open until January, and it only stays open until mid-March?

To answer your question about south ridge, yes it is that important

[spanky]

If a high speed quad gets you up the hill faster than the chair it is replacing, and the intention is not to increase uphill capacity or trail loading, the chair spacing must be further apart. So, your ride takes less time, but the lift line has more people waiting in it...

If there isn't a lift line or much of one, your travel time is reduced. If there is a substantial lift line, you waste any time gained sitting while you stand in line.

Classic example of this is the Lookout Double and the four runner at Stowe. Everyone flocks to the four runner because it is faster. Meanwhile there is no line at the double 100 yards away. Yeah, you loose a little vertical by taking the double, but you can still ski all of the good stuff. It undoubtedly takes less time to take the double, even though its slower and a double.

Yeah but... on a midweek day with no crowds, that Fourrunner allows you to rack up some serious vert. No lift lines and a high speed lift are the best of both worlds!

Although I hate long lift lines, I'd rather spend the time in line than freezing my ass off on a cold, slow lift.

[rogman]

With all due respect to my esteemed colleague Mr Moose, he's nuts. The Snowdon Quad is a grease dripping, slow riding, oft stopping, POS embarrassment to Killington.

If you want to move people up the mountain, a six pack with a carpet loader is the way to go. Outperforms an 8 passenger gondola.

Lifts with turns in them are fun, but mechanically a pain in the ass. On a fixed grip you either have to do a triangle (eg the South Ridge lift) or do a 270 degree turn in order to deal with how the grip mounts to the cable. The other alternative is a detachable, where the chairs come off through the turn on the return line.

There is room to bring a new south ridge lift to the peak. The exit would be slightly downhill from the K1. A bit crowded but doable. It would require cutting a new line, and I'm not sure how far K can go in that direction some Vt NGO has the rights, they're not sympathetic to K. There is room for an additional trail, however. Permitting would be a bear.

Carry on with this inane conversation.

[Mister Moose]

With all due respect to my esteemed colleague Mr Moose, he's nuts. The Snowdon Quad is a grease dripping,

They all drip grease

slow riding,

It's a fixed grip. That's what fixed grips do.

oft stopping,

They all stop often. The bitching here has been about exactly that.

POS embarrassment to Killington.

Because the down the root cellar motor room hatch on the NRT is just so.... quaint.

If you want to move people up the mountain, a six pack with a carpet loader is the way to go. Outperforms an 8 passenger gondola.

We're already putting 4200 people per hour at the top of Snowdon with both chairs running. How many more do you want up there?

Rehab KBL before the Snowdon Quad. It's twice as old and would provide more skier satisfaction than a new Quad, or carpet loader.

M Moose, Sec'y
SSQS

[Seacoaster]

High speed lifts with no increase in capacity makes LONGER LIFT LINES. FACT. The huge lines at popular Killington detachables are a major deterrent to customers. Nothing I hate more than standing in line. Folks paying $100/day to stand in line for half an hour each lift ride aren't coming back anytime soon...

Not sure I agree with this. This weekend, there was a line at Skye Peak Quad during the morning rush; Needles Eye was ski on with no line almost all day; Superstar had a line when the lift stopped because someone fell off while loading but was ski right on the other times we rode it. The major deterrent is the K1 line, which I heard was 40 minutes at one point on Saturday. That just sucks and easily solved with a new Snowden lift.
From what I heard Saturday's skier visits was 14,000+. Sound like a big number but not sure how that ranks.

I heard 14,700

[KingsFourMan]

The bottom line is that Killington's entire infrastructure (lifts, lodges, snowmaking, parking, and even trail network) needs serious overhauling. The kind of serious overhauling that ownership by Vail would do. The upside potential for Killington has to be huge looking to them. Killington is a diamond in the rough right now. Vail ownership would bring instant reputation back to Killington, something that is still hurting Killington a lot thanks to ASC and Nyburg. Vail would immediately institute Vail caliber customer service which is incredible, would completely overhaul the infrastructure over a period of a several years including Pico, would complete the interconnect, then build the village and sell lots of condo units and rent retail space. The biggest ski resort in the east by far would then be the best ski resort in the east by far...as it should be.

[madhatter]

The bottom line is that Killington's entire infrastructure (lifts, lodges, snowmaking, parking, and even trail network) needs serious overhauling. The kind of serious overhauling that ownership by Vail would do. The upside potential for Killington has to be huge looking to them. Killington is a diamond in the rough right now. Vail ownership would bring instant reputation back to Killington, something that is still hurting Killington a lot thanks to ASC and Nyburg. Vail would immediately institute Vail caliber customer service which is incredible, would completely overhaul the infrastructure over a period of a several years including Pico, would complete the interconnect, then build the village and sell lots of condo units and rent retail space. The biggest ski resort in the east by far would then be the best ski resort in the east by far...as it should be.

nearly all of that is a negative for me...I just wanna ski...

[yiddle on da fiddle]

The bottom line is that Killington's entire infrastructure (lifts, lodges, snowmaking, parking, and even trail network) needs serious overhauling. The kind of serious overhauling that ownership by Vail would do. The upside potential for Killington has to be huge looking to them. Killington is a diamond in the rough right now. Vail ownership would bring instant reputation back to Killington, something that is still hurting Killington a lot thanks to ASC and Nyburg. Vail would immediately institute Vail caliber customer service which is incredible, would completely overhaul the infrastructure over a period of a several years including Pico, would complete the interconnect, then build the village and sell lots of condo units and rent retail space. The biggest ski resort in the east by far would then be the best ski resort in the east by far...as it should be.

nearly all of that is a negative for me...I just wanna ski...

...with all yer bitching?...where would you EVER find the time?

[yiddle on da fiddle]

The bottom line is that Killington's entire infrastructure (lifts, lodges, snowmaking, parking, and even trail network) needs serious overhauling. The kind of serious overhauling that ownership by Vail would do. The upside potential for Killington has to be huge looking to them. Killington is a diamond in the rough right now. Vail ownership would bring instant reputation back to Killington, something that is still hurting Killington a lot thanks to ASC and Nyburg. Vail would immediately institute Vail caliber customer service which is incredible, would completely overhaul the infrastructure over a period of a several years including Pico, would complete the interconnect, then build the village and sell lots of condo units and rent retail space. The biggest ski resort in the east by far would then be the best ski resort in the east by far...as it should be.

Sums it up quite nicely...inasmuch as I'm not a betting kinda guy?...I envision TWO more years under Powdr's money grabbin ways before they bail...

[skifaster]

With all due respect to my esteemed colleague Mr Moose, he's nuts. The Snowdon Quad is a grease dripping,

They all drip grease

slow riding,

It's a fixed grip. That's what fixed grips do.

oft stopping,

They all stop often. The bitching here has been about exactly that.

POS embarrassment to Killington.

Because the down the root cellar motor room hatch on the NRT is just so.... quaint.

If you want to move people up the mountain, a six pack with a carpet loader is the way to go. Outperforms an 8 passenger gondola.

We're already putting 4200 people per hour at the top of Snowdon with both chairs running. How many more do you want up there?

Rehab KBL before the Snowdon Quad. It's twice as old and would provide more skier satisfaction than a new Quad, or carpet loader.

M Moose, Sec'y
SSQS

Agree'd, I would take the Old Peak Double in place of K1 any day. The K1 was put in as a marketing campaign (art in the sky) and to combat cold rides. Again, faster and glossier is not always better!!!!! Putting a HSQ or six pack on Snowdon is a deathwish...

[ME2VTSkier]

If a high speed quad gets you up the hill faster than the chair it is replacing, and the intention is not to increase uphill capacity or trail loading, the chair spacing must be further apart. So, your ride takes less time, but the lift line has more people waiting in it...

If there isn't a lift line or much of one, your travel time is reduced. If there is a substantial lift line, you waste any time gained sitting while you stand in line.

Classic example of this is the Lookout Double and the four runner at Stowe. Everyone flocks to the four runner because it is faster. Meanwhile there is no line at the double 100 yards away. Yeah, you loose a little vertical by taking the double, but you can still ski all of the good stuff. It undoubtedly takes less time to take the double, even though its slower and a double.

Yeah but... on a midweek day with no crowds, that Fourrunner allows you to rack up some serious vert. No lift lines and a high speed lift are the best of both worlds!

Although I hate long lift lines, I'd rather spend the time in line than freezing my ass off on a cold, slow lift.

See, I'm not the only one... not everyone equates a lift line to a longer trip to the top.